RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Ohokaman

Dear oh dear…..Auckland Cup downgraded to Group 2…

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3 hours ago, poundforpound said:

The underlying problem though Berrifruit is that we don’t have a strong gambling ethos in NZ and the industry consequently is financially weak 

We have assets of course, but the structure of NZ clubs and their respective constitutions invariably preclude cashing up redundant assets to create a better national model that would in turn allow us to create a better product that we might be able to sell abroad, something of HK quality 

Anyway I’m in the hospo space and we’ve got far bigger problems than racing ( if that’s of any comfort )

We don't have as strong as gambling ethos as the HK, Australia (probably half); however we are not that far off US, Ireland, UK.  Australia and HK are still our audience or target markets for the TAB.  So we can still make our product more attractive for them to punt on it.

The Windsor Plate is a very unattractive punting race (no disrespect to connections that have horses in it that our better than I have had).

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19 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

That sounds like a hell of a lot of effort just to help the Auckland Cup retain its group status. When was the last time it was won by a decent horse? Other than Who Shot the Barman you probably have to go back to Jezabeel about 25 years ago. At least the NZ Cup can list Empire Rose among its list of winners.

Well spoken WD..........exactly my sentiments to berri's post .

A hell of an effort  indeed.......but a good read !

Just get $10 million together.......yeah right , easy part....then the rest falls into place.

Train the horses up to target a key  Group race or two ......no problem.

I actually been in a lot of horses with 50-100 shares , and noted how these and  the real low cost options into horse ownership which operate currently seem to run into constant issues and take a mountain of administration ! 

Getting the money up front would be a good option...in theory . Many like to own a chunk of a horse ,and have a say in decisions etc as opposed to owning hairs in the tail.

 

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4 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

That sounds like a hell of a lot of effort just to help the Auckland Cup retain its group status. When was the last time it was won by a decent horse? Other than Who Shot the Barman you probably have to go back to Jezabeel about 25 years ago. At least the NZ Cup can list Empire Rose among its list of winners.

Bigger question. Does the race's group status really matter?

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7 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

That sounds like a hell of a lot of effort just to help the Auckland Cup retain its group status. When was the last time it was won by a decent horse? Other than Who Shot the Barman you probably have to go back to Jezabeel about 25 years ago. At least the NZ Cup can list Empire Rose among its list of winners.

It isn't just to help the group status of the Auckland Cup, its to enable the structure of racing in NZ to maintain its overall value. You've got to improve interest, thereby improving participation and finally betting. All of this was possible if the technology allowed such a proposition to be executed. That's where everything fell apart.

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47 minutes ago, Berri said:

It isn't just to help the group status of the Auckland Cup, its to enable the structure of racing in NZ to maintain its overall value. You've got to improve interest, thereby improving participation and finally betting. All of this was possible if the technology allowed such a proposition to be executed. That's where everything fell apart.

The Wellington Cup....which IMO during the hugely popular 1970-80's was considered the 'big one' , lost its Group 1 status in 2009 then suffered more humiliation in quality when it was dropped in distance to 2400m to try and attract better horses then soon after dropped to Group 3.

The NZ Cup also has battled in quality for many years.

I'd suggest a trend there !

However these three big days still retain their place as the busiest race days for betting and attendance in NZ racing .

And these Cup races are still among our races which attract the most betting......certainly much higher than ALL our Group 1 races....GATES full sign raised a few times in recent years !

I realise berri you a significant  Melbourne Cup participant and an Entrepreneur in life but have you ever been a member of Auckland  Racing Club and taken your ideas/concerns to the Clubs AGM or been in any racing administration in NZ and been able to introduce your ideas into their calendar/plans ?

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I have been a member of the Auckland racing club. I got disillusioned. I helped Don McLaren become the chair. I've appeared before the board there (some time ago) when we realised racing was in the poo but the problem has been engendering support from further up the pig trough hierarchy  at that time. Hopefully this has changed some what. 

I recently applied to become a member of the NZTR. They didn't even want to interview me. Same for the NZTAB. I didn't expect to get there because I am too controversial and don't suffer stupidity but I can be a team player. I found the process very interesting. In the first instance, I didn't receive a receipt that I had actually applied. I then received a notification that I had been unsuccessful in my application after the positions had been announced. That one really amused me.

Brian de Lore is right. There is a sort of club mentality going on. Considering I have been a stable hand for Dave O'Sullivan (Mike Moroney was my room mate), went to Uni and studied equine exercise physiology (also got an Associate Diploma in Agriculture), have invested heavily in horses (not pretend ownership), imported some champion stallions, invested heavily in tech companies (including media tech), built totalisators and now into the blockchain technology, whilst being a part owner in a privately family owned multinational European business (turnover 1b+), you'd think I'd get an interview...but no.

We tried to put tacking technology into this country. Got a system up and running. Big problem was that the course distances were wrong, the starting stalls were placed incorrectly, and therefore you couldn't automate the solution. Tried seriously hard to get that one across the line but despite the NZTR spending $45k, Bernard hasn't picked it up in order to complete it. We also tried to get a protocol to improve track conditions done. The theory was put weather stations on three tracks, get the data and establish protocols to make sure that irrigation wasn't used incorrectly. The next phase of that was to convert the fertiliser/ swarth management in order to provide safe consistent racing surfaces. That also got canned under Bernard's care. The weather stations were also to provide punters, owners and trainers with better info but they were kept operational.

I was the guy that publicly stepped up to the plate and said that Typhoon was a waste of money and time. I got Poo Pooed by the then management of the TAB. I said the same thing in relation to the commercial efficacy of the current FOB platform. No one listened. Goes way back...in 1994 Dave O'Sullivan, Patrick Hogan and I went to Wellington to provide the RIB with an internet betting solution. I'd seen the internet at work between Davis Uni in California and Harvard, because I found myself there for research. The response back to me was that the TAB "didn't think their customers would embrace the internet for betting". Hickton rejected my promotion to create an exchange (Betfair hadn't yet taken off) because he said the "TAB was not in the business of experimentation"'. I have been very vocal in respect of the Blockchain as I think it has the potential to screw everything up again. No one listens.

I've been saying it for some time, distance racing and large fields attract the highest betting correlations. 

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2 hours ago, Berri said:

I have been a member of the Auckland racing club. I got disillusioned. I helped Don McLaren become the chair. I've appeared before the board there (some time ago) when we realised racing was in the poo but the problem has been engendering support from further up the pig trough hierarchy  at that time. Hopefully this has changed some what. 

I recently applied to become a member of the NZTR. They didn't even want to interview me. Same for the NZTAB. I didn't expect to get there because I am too controversial and don't suffer stupidity but I can be a team player. I found the process very interesting. In the first instance, I didn't receive a receipt that I had actually applied. I then received a notification that I had been unsuccessful in my application after the positions had been announced. That one really amused me.

Brian de Lore is right. There is a sort of club mentality going on. Considering I have been a stable hand for Dave O'Sullivan (Mike Moroney was my room mate), went to Uni and studied equine exercise physiology (also got an Associate Diploma in Agriculture), have invested heavily in horses (not pretend ownership), imported some champion stallions, invested heavily in tech companies (including media tech), built totalisators and now into the blockchain technology, whilst being a part owner in a privately family owned multinational European business (turnover 1b+), you'd think I'd get an interview...but no.

We tried to put tacking technology into this country. Got a system up and running. Big problem was that the course distances were wrong, the starting stalls were placed incorrectly, and therefore you couldn't automate the solution. Tried seriously hard to get that one across the line but despite the NZTR spending $45k, Bernard hasn't picked it up in order to complete it. We also tried to get a protocol to improve track conditions done. The theory was put weather stations on three tracks, get the data and establish protocols to make sure that irrigation wasn't used incorrectly. The next phase of that was to convert the fertiliser/ swarth management in order to provide safe consistent racing surfaces. That also got canned under Bernard's care. The weather stations were also to provide punters, owners and trainers with better info but they were kept operational.

I was the guy that publicly stepped up to the plate and said that Typhoon was a waste of money and time. I got Poo Pooed by the then management of the TAB. I said the same thing in relation to the commercial efficacy of the current FOB platform. No one listened. Goes way back...in 1994 Dave O'Sullivan, Patrick Hogan and I went to Wellington to provide the RIB with an internet betting solution. I'd seen the internet at work between Davis Uni in California and Harvard, because I found myself there for research. The response back to me was that the TAB "didn't think their customers would embrace the internet for betting". Hickton rejected my promotion to create an exchange (Betfair hadn't yet taken off) because he said the "TAB was not in the business of experimentation"'. I have been very vocal in respect of the Blockchain as I think it has the potential to screw everything up again. No one listens.

I've been saying it for some time, distance racing and large fields attract the highest betting correlations. 

Christ, no wonder you didn’t get an invite Berri. Too much of a threat to those in the comfy seats. Seen it many times.

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11 hours ago, Berri said:

I have been a member of the Auckland racing club. I got disillusioned.

Berri, how curious that you use my nom-de-chat in your comments, heh.

I feel your angst.

Several folk - thou and I included - who have dared to raise points in here that are against the norm have been slapped down with (inane to me) comments that we should get ourselves elected to 'the board' and work from within. Or shut the kcuf up...

Your experience - and, to a far lesser extent, mine - simply shows that the majority of board members, not just racing boards, are loath to embrace change ... and are aided in that loath by them representing rank and file members/shareholders/whatever who are too timid or too cowed to demand such change.

Your comment re the TAB telling you - 1994? - that the TAB "didn't think their customers would embrace the internet for betting' had me chortling merrily... 

 

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I don't know the chap but the sponsorship manager at the Auckland Racing club must be on a hiding to nothing when they keep downgrading the Group races , and in particular the Auckland Cup, it is my understanding that the club get $200k from Barfoot for this race?

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There's always hope...

Why, I understand there's a horse in Europe at present who hadn't run outside of Germany in 10 previous lifetime starts but who stepped out onto Longchamp this a.m and won the 2021 Prix de L'Arc de Triomphe at huge odds...

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