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poundforpound

Three years tomorrow punters

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Inca, harness racing’s biggest disgrace  

Three long years since the dawn raids, the warning off of those charged … the gloating from the RIU / RIB, the media fanfare….. the extraordinary toxic tainting of the code forever…..three long years and they’ve still got nothing … not a single charge of race fixing or even team driving … the Organised Crime Group has been humiliated, the narc and the liars who fed disinformation about race fixing, blood doping, and huge betting irregularities, but the evidence uncovered what exactly ???

Nothing

Betting irregularities.  NONE

Money trail.                 NONE 

Blood doping              NONE

Team driving.            NONE 

Race fixing.               NONE 

That’s what you get for 10 plus million dollars these days ….meantime the real criminals and mass murderers went about their business uninterrupted because the OCG were sitting in cars outside the Ascot Hotel in Invercargill, Christchurch, Palmerston North, Cambridge, Auckland ….. listening to their bugs they’d planted … and they found absolutely fxxxing nothing 

Job well done KS you NARC, Jenkins, and your fabricating mates from the RIU …. I hope you feel good on your big three year anniversary day 

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4 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Job well done KS you NARC, Jenkins, and your fabricating mates from the RIU …. I hope you feel good on your big three year anniversary day 

totally agree Poundy !! well done to one and all. Investigations made . nothing found?  How good is that ? excellent out-come. Harness racing can move on with the high quality horseman (and women) of New Zealand,  for lots of enjoyable future racing for us all to enjoy !!!  who could possibly grizzle about that .

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Funny I was just thinking about this the other day and wondering if it was still going on ?

It was obvious quite some time ago the RIU had very weak or no evidence at all.

The posters who posted here in the early stages of the investigation that the RIU had evidence in spades were full of BS. Wouldn't surprise me if some of them were connected to the police or RIU.

PFP can you inform us if the RIU is  still pursuing any INCA  cases or  have they ceased the investigation  finally realizing it was  going nowhere.?

Would love to see the Sunday program do a expose on the whole investigation and how corrupt  and  incompetent it was.

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The RIB ( was RIU ) was still seeking court approved access to all Police surveillance data …at least they were until Mike Clements took over, and I suspect they still are… presumably so the RIB can then charge the licensees involved under racing rules 

Racing is “balance of probabilities” whereas the courts are “beyond reasonable doubt”… and it’s patently obvious the JCA ( some members thereof ) are easily persuaded to do as the RIB wishes 

If it’s of any comfort the media is definitely all over this … the story will be told for a variety of reasons .. the cost … the way they went off early with so much media manipulation…. the fact the narc was in a failed civil dispute with the primary suspect … the fact the RIU investigators lied to the Police or gave the Police disinformation  … the fact DSJ and others ( including jealous licensees ) lied about blood doping … the peripheral collateral damage to numerous racing identities as the vituperative investigators manufactured “other charges” .. …. the not so secret agendas of RIU staff … and the vulnerability of the accused and what they’ve been subjected to emotionally and financially 

It’s going to be a great story for everyone except the Police and the RIB ..and I’m delighted that I’ve been on the right side of history every step of the way here 

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8 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Three long years since the dawn raids, the warning off of those charged … the gloating from the RIU / RIB, the media fanfare….. the extraordinary toxic tainting of the code forever…..three long years and they’ve still got nothing … not a single charge of race fixing or even team driving … the Organised Crime Group has been humiliated, the narc and the liars who fed disinformation about race fixing, blood doping, and huge betting irregularities, but the evidence uncovered what exactly ???

Nothing

Betting irregularities.  NONE

Money trail.                 NONE 

Blood doping              NONE

Team driving.            NONE 

Race fixing.               NONE 

There may be some ignorant folk who actually think that none of this stuff happens.

Actually I'm so glad and happy to read these results you are putting above , as sick and tired of hearing accusations against the best NZ stables every year , as yet another NZ Cup is won.

The fact the Investigation couldn't uncover all this shite is great for the sport. Only SOME are saying the sport is now 'tainted forever' when in reality, it isn't ? It VERY WELL COULD of been if they sentenced heaps of people? . But NO , they didn't .. How good !!!!!!! .  No damage done.!!!!!  

we need stipes, police investigators , swabs ,officials ,referees, umpires ,lol, to help keep sport clean. Even if some don't like authority lol........

Court cases have Winners and Losers you know. Sometimes the prosecution wins v sometimes the defence is wins .  Better an Investigation and Light Shined on the Subject, whether it be murder or those 5 Charges Poundy has listed.??? better than just being ignorant . and shows game not able to be proved crooked like everyone was thinking ? excellent result .........

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Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

Anybody who wasn't born blind knows there's more fire than smoke in the Inca case, but the Masonic nature of the industry meant it was always going to be well-nigh-impossible to prove. Which looks increasingly likely to be the case.

So anybody who views the lack of charges as some kind of vindication is deluding themselves.

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Basil, you are firing away from the ashes of an extinct pit, Inca is buried, dead, gone, along with Kilcoyne, dalboy, Jeep, flawed genius, the last name very apt. We do not see or hear much from this crew anymore, so please join them, cheers.🚴‍♂️🕺

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18 minutes ago, Basil said:

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

Anybody who wasn't born blind knows there's more fire than smoke in the Inca case, but the Masonic nature of the industry meant it was always going to be well-nigh-impossible to prove. Which looks increasingly likely to be the case.

So anybody who views the lack of charges as some kind of vindication is deluding themselves.

Search warrants, raids on private homes, surveillance operations, bank records, they tried to turn licensee against licensee, bullying and intimidation……they found absolutely nothing …….the only ones who share your view are the bad punters, the losers and the marginalized…….I’m guessing that’s where you fit ?

 

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Just now, poundforpound said:

Search warrants, raids on private homes, surveillance operations, bank records, they tried to turn licensee against licensee, bullying and intimidation……they found absolutely nothing …….the only ones who share your view are the bad punters, the losers and the marginalized…….I’m guessing that’s where you fit ?

 

 

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57 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Search warrants, raids on private homes, surveillance operations, bank records, they tried to turn licensee against licensee, bullying and intimidation……they found absolutely nothing …

People employed to 'Investigate' something have been doing that sort of thing for decades. Whether harness racing infringements, Drug running ,tax evasion, (Do you Notice how the TAX OFFICE is hated as much as the hate Inca or RIU staff? lol just people doing their job) 

Shame the 'Investigators' didn't have enough 'Evidence ' to prosecute the Sri Lankan national stab man in Auckland before he hurt people. ? Is HARD job gathering evidence. Everyone Lies.

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1 hour ago, Basil said:

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

Anybody who wasn't born blind knows there's more fire than smoke in the Inca case, but the Masonic nature of the industry meant it was always going to be well-nigh-impossible to prove. Which looks increasingly likely to be the case.

So anybody who views the lack of charges as some kind of vindication is deluding themselves.

Very difficult to condone this drawn out Operation which has caused turmoil ,huge costs and stress to so many.

I think we can all agree it has been handled poorly , and caused great harm to the Industry.

For what ?

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7 minutes ago, tasman man said:

I think we can all agree it has been handled poorly , and caused great harm to the Industry.

For what ?

Wouldn't agree with that at All. The racing is carrying on as per normal (Covid exceptions of course)

And is a much better place with DETERENT FACTOR now firmly in place , odd exceptions like McGrath and Alford still trying dated methods. AND so while Investigations, swabbing , stable 'raids'  and all that sort of authority continues, the racing should be on a Level Playing Field for the HONEST participants to enjoy'. 

Imagine the total 'Chaos and Cheating' without it. AND then you would have this Great Harm to the industry.

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3 hours ago, Pure Steel said:

Wouldn't agree with that at All. The racing is carrying on as per normal (Covid exceptions of course)

And is a much better place with DETERENT FACTOR now firmly in place , odd exceptions like McGrath and Alford still trying dated methods. AND so while Investigations, swabbing , stable 'raids'  and all that sort of authority continues, the racing should be on a Level Playing Field for the HONEST participants to enjoy'. 

Imagine the total 'Chaos and Cheating' without it. AND then you would have this Great Harm to the industry.

It’s quite sad that you can even think like that

The Police had unlimited resources, they spent millions trying to find something to prosecute, but they found nothing, absolutely nothing 

I read all the shit on here ….people who claimed to know who was involved, what was going on…..and it’s common knowledge who leaked to the RIU…….but when it came to actual evidence, actual facts….there was nothing …..no matter how hard the Police looked, and what they offered racing people to “turn”……at the end of the day there was just a lot of jealousy, bitterness, driven mostly a couple of low achieving punters, ignorant RIU staff,  and ex licensees, …..

The bottom line is this 

The nillers and low achievers, in conjunction with the failed punters, took this opportunity to try to drag the winners and high achievers down to their level…..but you failed 

 

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2 hours ago, poundforpound said:

It’s quite sad that you can even think like that

Well luckily not everyone thinks the same. Just some think they know best all the time.

It's not sad to be grateful for deterring 'illegal activity.' Swabbing and stewards and Investigations are necessary in racing. I'm happy (as you are) that the Inca Investigation has seen a lack of charges , and the harness racing participants (except McGrath and Alford) can get on with doing what they do. So just saying that is GOOD . not trying to bring anyone down. 

You have carried on Ad Nauseam about the poor investigation and didn't go how you wanted it too (OR did it ??) lol. One thing for sure, that every horse person here knows, is that in any field of sport , there are participants looking for the edge on rivals . Maybe P4P might agree to that possibly. And things like Police involvement will deter 'some'.

Several of Australia's leading horsepeople have been DQed and some are still DQed in recent years, including Vicki Rasmussen, Mark Pitt, Nathan Jack , etc etc race fixing ,etc ,etc.

It happens sadly, and quite bad in Oz really. (number of Horse trainers DQed) INCA has stopped it from being that bad in NZ . Be grateful .Just  Like a booze bus , deterrents work !!!

 

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12 hours ago, Pure Steel said:

People employed to 'Investigate' something have been doing that sort of thing for decades. Whether harness racing infringements, Drug running ,tax evasion, (Do you Notice how the TAX OFFICE is hated as much as the hate Inca or RIU staff? lol just people doing their job) 

Shame the 'Investigators' didn't have enough 'Evidence ' to prosecute the Sri Lankan national stab man in Auckland before he hurt people. ? Is HARD job gathering evidence. Everyone Lies.

You seemed to change your tune in recent posts about the appropriateness  of Police involvement in the Harness industry.

You mention the Tax department.....don't they have their own investigators who carry out their own work re compliance etc and gather their facts and only go into court when there are criminal charges ?

Dunno about the Tax office being hated .......not much experience of this around here IMO.

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2 minutes ago, tasman man said:

You seemed to change your tune in recent posts about the appropriateness  of Police involvement in the Harness industry.

You mention the Tax department.....don't they have their own investigators who carry out their own work re compliance etc and gather their facts and only go into court when there are criminal charges ?

Dunno about the Tax office being hated .......not much experience of this around here IMO.

The tax dept is the most hated govt dept by far. They are un- ethical and very hard to be made accountable.  

Whether they are right or wrong ; dealing with them  have caused the odd person to commit suicide. 

They had a go at a thoroughbred  syndicate ,  a few years back. Recently had a go at a standardbred breeder the sells at the yearling sales on a regular basis as well as a few smaller operators. 

The breeders have had a discussion with IRD and now when purchasing an elite horse  (price) at the Sales, there are now new tax concessions.

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34 minutes ago, 2Piper said:

The tax dept is the most hated govt dept by far. They are un- ethical and very hard to be made accountable.  

Whether they are right or wrong ; dealing with them  have caused the odd person to commit suicide. 

They had a go at a thoroughbred  syndicate ,  a few years back. Recently had a go at a standardbred breeder the sells at the yearling sales on a regular basis as well as a few smaller operators. 

The breeders have had a discussion with IRD and now when purchasing an elite horse  (price) at the Sales, there are now new tax concessions.

As I thought.....discussion and collaboration results in equitable solution.

Very sad that everything from winning to losing to have no money to being too rich ,to getting selected at Sports to not being selected at sports is causing  folk to just quit in the most permanent way. Sad indeed !

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15 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Search warrants, raids on private homes, surveillance operations, bank records, they tried to turn licensee against licensee, bullying and intimidation……they found absolutely nothing …….the only ones who share your view are the bad punters, the losers and the marginalized…….I’m guessing that’s where you fit ?

 

The observation that prompted Basil to make the comment is completely valid....

and although you look from the perspective of the damage thats been caused to the industry, your comments have validity too.

 

The question one needs to consider is... were the RIU/RIB and all concerned in the investigative process, prompted by a honest individual, who knew of something which needed to be rooted out of the industry.

At the end of the day, the Role to investigate was carried out, serving its intended purposes, and restoring some confidence back into the industry.

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On 9/4/2021 at 5:55 PM, Pure Steel said:

Well luckily not everyone thinks the same. Just some think they know best all the time.

It's not sad to be grateful for deterring 'illegal activity.' Swabbing and stewards and Investigations are necessary in racing. I'm happy (as you are) that the Inca Investigation has seen a lack of charges , and the harness racing participants (except McGrath and Alford) can get on with doing what they do. So just saying that is GOOD . not trying to bring anyone down. 

You have carried on Ad Nauseam about the poor investigation and didn't go how you wanted it too (OR did it ??) lol. One thing for sure, that every horse person here knows, is that in any field of sport , there are participants looking for the edge on rivals . Maybe P4P might agree to that possibly. And things like Police involvement will deter 'some'.

Several of Australia's leading horsepeople have been DQed and some are still DQed in recent years, including Vicki Rasmussen, Mark Pitt, Nathan Jack , etc etc race fixing ,etc ,etc.

It happens sadly, and quite bad in Oz really. (number of Horse trainers DQed) INCA has stopped it from being that bad in NZ . Be grateful .Just  Like a booze bus , deterrents work !!!

 

So your logic is that despite the fact there’d been NO crimes committed, no relevant laws applicable to race or match fixing broken …..it was justifiable for the elite Police ONG to spend three years and ten million plus dollars chasing shadows ……all based on gossip and hearsay…..while two outrageous terrorists went largely undetected ……well one was undetected, the other still managed to have his evil way despite being under surveillance 

Wouldn't you sooner see the Police pursuing genuine criminals who’re a real danger to society rather than wasting their precious resources on the Inca wild goose chase ? 

 

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2 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Wouldn't you sooner see the Police pursuing genuine criminals who’re a real danger to society rather than wasting their precious resources on the Inca wild goose chase ? 

Yeah definitely mate. What a sad incident in Auckland that is. Wishing all those traumatised families the very best for recovery from that. truly awful. and the police dealing with it all.

Yeah, not sorry Inca didn't find anything. That's good really !!!  I'm pretty sure that is what all the true harness racing supporters here wanted to happen .  .I have always found all the harness folk I've met to be outstanding people.. That would be awful too, for them to be shot /shut down for trying to win. Play to win . 

Yeah , it is justifiable to put processes in place that keep participants honest , and investigate suspicious activity. Racing would be like FINE COTTON otherwise ?? hahahahaha

 

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Well, it’s apparent that nothing has changed in the 3+ years since I last bothered posting anything on here: a mildly critical statement of the obvious from a moderately disinterested outsider is met with a barrage of ad hominin insults, as if these were somehow a substitute for rational thinking. No consideration of the possibility that some of the Inca charges may actually be well-founded (as recent history strongly suggests), no acceptance that proving these charges is likely to be very difficult in a tight-knit industry (think Kahui family), and certainly no consideration of the fact that harness (and racing in general) has a major image problem not because of Inca but because of the behaviour of industry participants.  All the resulting wagon-circling is just confirmation of my fundamental point: that the failure of Inca is not a vindication and claiming that it is is simple denial.  The truth is painful, but keeping one’s head in the sand eventually hurts even more.

 

So goodbye again. Hopefully, there’ll still be something to return to in another 3 years. 

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On 9/4/2021 at 9:08 AM, arjay said:

Basil, you are firing away from the ashes of an extinct pit, Inca is buried, dead, gone, along with Kilcoyne, dalboy, Jeep, flawed genius, the last name very apt. We do not see or hear much from this crew anymore, so please join them, cheers.🚴‍♂️🕺

Where did I go???

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