RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
myk

Kings son lucky

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Guest Quarter horse
LOl, maori could leave these shores tomorrow with all their precious culture and the New Zealand economy would not even know they had left, except the queues at winz, KFC would be shorter, and the prisons emptier.

And did maori start from scratch! or were they handed a viable going concern with a cash injection and a guaranteed drip feed from the taxpayer of New Zealand under various guises, also they get large tax concessions in comparison to non-maori businesses, many maori businesses are registered as 'charities' and pay no tax thanks to Mrs Turia, it is just a sick joke!

:D

Your first point is not even worth a response and reflects poorly on the mana of the author.

Your second point is typical of the lack of education that most people from your demographic group display. It is highly inaccurate and ignorant of the facts.

Prior to colonisation, Maori had a thriving economy in Aotearoa New Zealand. This economy was largely destroyed due to the well-documented treaty breaches (go to the library and get some books out and read up on these first 2 sentences). Maori business today is a mixture of start-ups and trusts that have been formed from treaty settlements. Familiar success stories include Kia Kaha Clothing and Kaikoura Whale Watch.

I could write a book on the achievements of Maori business but the most important fact to consider is that they adhere to quadruple bottom line reporting. Now if you are reading this and have no idea what that means and the implications thereof, then I would suggest that you're out of your depth and you'd be better off debating with teletuDPBy.

But your assumption that they have been gifted going concern businesses is laughable. Can you please explain how that would work in practice and then list all the examples you can think of where this has happened in reality.

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Guest Quarter horse

Actually opo, this says it all.]http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5106885/Islands-and-bays-renamed-in-Maori

Do yourself a favour and make sure you read the comments by readers of this article (you'll find those by scrolling down to the bottom of said article). No doubt you'll identify strongly with comment #11, as that is the same ignorant garbage that most on here continue to spout off. Luckily most of the other readers have an IQ level above 'minus-a-million' and have attempted to educate the idiot.

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Actually opo, this says it all.]http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5106885/Islands-and-bays-renamed-in-Maori

Do yourself a favour and make sure you read the comments by readers of this article (you'll find those by scrolling down to the bottom of said article). No doubt you'll identify strongly with comment #11, as that is the same ignorant garbage that most on here continue to spout off. Luckily most of the other readers have an IQ level above 'minus-a-million' and have attempted to educate the idiot.

And post #5

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quackerhorse, .. it is easy to quote the law but it first has to be law or passed as law by the powers to be rather than yourself...as like i said if you say so doesn't mean it is as is...it's just quackerhorse bull****.

now run away and when you have got something that we all can sit up and take notice of ..then come back...your one sick bastard that clearly needs help... but i guess there would be something in the quackerhorse lawbook that states other wise and it is my fault of pakeha's fault.. waimate had enough of you by now i'msure....

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Guest Quarter horse
quackerhorse, .. it is easy to quote the law but it first has to be law or passed as law by the powers to be rather than yourself...as like i said if you say so doesn't mean it is as is...it's just quackerhorse bull****.

now run away and when you have got something that we all can sit up and take notice of ..then come back...your one sick bastard that clearly needs help... but i guess there would be something in the quackerhorse lawbook that states other wise and it is my fault of pakeha's fault.. waimate had enough of you by now i'msure....

:D:D:D

What part of 'common law' or 'legislation' don't you understand teletuDPBy?

And who is paying for your internet connection by the way?;)

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why craig, i thought i made that clear... i pay my own bills .. with my own money... certainly not winz as you would have us all believe..nore is it money from trible bull**** under the treaty settlements...

who pays for your bi-polar treatment?

i have a very good understanding of law... not the clap trap your dishing out bro.

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We all hold to our dogma in one way or another,wether or not it is grounded in Truth or false ideas based on prejudice,and perceived wrongs.

What worrys me for NZ,s sake is that this will continue generations after I have departed.

Regards

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The Welfare Act wasn`t written into the treaty ..... It was to cede Soverinty to the Britsh Crown...Most ALL NZ`ers know that...

Hey Jack,no work today,still celebrating our queens birthday yesterday.Oh,silly me.You wouldn't recognise her,but still take the public holiday,although I guess you're on one big permanent holiday.A great life no doubt if you can get it.

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Onyah Quarter .... These morons live in their own tiny tiny world ...Don`t lower youself to their level .... Their ego`s is a great part of their world....Let them frolic in IT!!!!

Have a look at the statistics of our Prison population, have a look at Police 10/7,have a look at who are the largest group of people hanging around the Courthouses,day after day,week after week.........., as i have said before "even Stevie Wonder could see" but it must the fault of the Pakeha Government aye bro,aye cuz !! all because of 1840 and the TOWaitangi. Same applies for all the other negative statistics attributed to Maori aye cuzzie bro, bloody Pakeha Governments fault.

If Hone was PM and he introduced his Hone Heke Tax none of this would happen aye cuzzie bro !!

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Have a look at the statistics of our Prison population, have a look at Police 10/7,have a look at who are the largest group of people hanging around the Courthouses,day after day,week after week.........., as i have said before "even Stevie Wonder could see" but it must the fault of the Pakeha Government aye bro,aye cuz !! all because of 1840 and the TOWaitangi. Same applies for all the other negative statistics attributed to Maori aye cuzzie bro, bloody Pakeha Governments fault.

If Hone was PM and he introduced his Hone Heke Tax none of this would happen aye cuzzie bro !!

SS,the truth is,the mans a hypocrite.Anyone with his attitude and thinking who receives gvt assistance is nothing but.

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The Welfare Act wasn`t written into the treaty ..... It was to cede Soverinty to the Britsh Crown...Most ALL NZ`ers know that...

Jack, you and 'Quarter horse' had better get your heads together because one of you is telling porkies, here is what he posted on another thread -

"So I'll repeat what I said earlier: Maori ceded governorship, not sovereignty, whilst maintaining sovereignty over their lands, forests, fisheries etc."

http://www.racecafe.co.nz/forum/showpost.php?p=574521&postcount=180

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Jack, you and 'Quarter horse' had better get your heads together because one of you is telling porkies, here is what he posted on another thread -

"So I'll repeat what I said earlier: Maori ceded governorship, not sovereignty, whilst maintaining sovereignty over their lands, forests, fisheries etc."

http://www.racecafe.co.nz/forum/showpost.php?p=574521&postcount=180

For your info...

Article the first [Article 1]

The Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand and the separate and independent Chiefs who have not become members of the Confederation cede to Her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty which the said Confederation or Individual Chiefs respectively exercise or possess, or may be supposed to exercise or to possess over their respective Territories as the sole sovereigns thereof.

Read the real deal ... don`t make things up ... You`ll look stupid..

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For your info...

Article the first [Article 1]

The Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand and the separate and independent Chiefs who have not become members of the Confederation cede to Her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty which the said Confederation or Individual Chiefs respectively exercise or possess, or may be supposed to exercise or to possess over their respective Territories as the sole sovereigns thereof.

Read the real deal ... don`t make things up ... You`ll look stupid..

So spell it out to me Jack, did maori cede sovereignty of NZ to the Queen - a simple yes or no would be great!

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Hey Jack,no work today,still celebrating our queens birthday yesterday.Oh,silly me.You wouldn't recognise her,but still take the public holiday,although I guess you're on one big permanent holiday.A great life no doubt if you can get it.

Your Queen!!! ..... What you own her now!!!...Typical , Thats what they said when they discovered NZ...Your Land!!!

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So spell it out to me Jack, did maori cede sovereignty of NZ to the Queen - a simple yes or no would be great!

Did I catch you out posting trash again Alan....

"So I'll repeat what I said earlier: Maori ceded governorship, not sovereignty, whilst maintaining sovereignty over their lands, forests, fisheries etc."

http://www.racecafe.co.nz/forum/sho...1&postcount=180

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LOl, maori could leave these shores tomorrow with all their precious culture and the New Zealand economy would not even know they had left, except the queues at winz, KFC would be shorter, and the prisons emptier.

Your ignorance astounds me! Are you saying that if there were no Maori in this country that there would be relatively no crime? That we wouldn't need a welfare system?

Have you heard of Capitalism? Do you not realise that for the system to work it needs people to earn minimum wage, and work in jobs which the proud white men like yourself would never want to do? If there were no Maori then there would still be the same amount of people queing at WINZ, however they would be white. There are plenty of people who do not and choose not to work, I doubt very much that race has much to do with it.

There are a vast amount of reasons why Maori frequent many of societies less flattering statistics, and I will not go through them here. However consider this; Maori have been disadvantaged by their European cousins before and after the treaty has been signed. If you look at nearly every other colonised country by the British empire, the indigenous population has always struggled to gain an equal standing in society. Is this a coincidence?

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Guest Quarter horse
Have a look at the statistics of our Prison population, have a look at Police 10/7,have a look at who are the largest group of people hanging around the Courthouses,day after day,week after week.........., as i have said before "even Stevie Wonder could see" but it must the fault of the Pakeha Government aye bro,aye cuz !! all because of 1840 and the TOWaitangi. Same applies for all the other negative statistics attributed to Maori aye cuzzie bro, bloody Pakeha Governments fault.

If Hone was PM and he introduced his Hone Heke Tax none of this would happen aye cuzzie bro !!

I think the figures you are searching for are roughly these David.

Maori make up approx 50% of our prison population (male and female), yet account for only 14% of our total population.

So obviously te kooti Pakeha (the Pakeha court system) has been a raging success for Maori. :rolleyes:

What, then, are our options? Continue on down this current pathway that so isn't working? Indeed, the Chief Justice Dame Sian Elias, has already stated that the current system is broken and needs fixing. Or do we just continue on with what we're currently doing, knowing full well that the economic cost of te kooti Pakeha far outweighs the economic benefit.

Te kooti Pakeha is a system that depersonalises conflict so that disputes are dealt with by bureaucratic, hierarchical institutions that are intentionally distanced from the offender and the victim. Conversely, Maori justice personalises justice and locates responsibility at a community level. Put simply, Maori justice works from the flax roots up, while Pakeha justice is imposed from the state down to the disputants.

I favour anything other than the current system and if that means a separate system encompassing Maori principles such as whanaungatanga (community input and responsibility); ora (reciprocity and balance); tikanga (process, including the acknowledgement of an appropriate forum, i.e., a marae); and the use of Te Reo Maori as the official language during these hearings.

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Guest Quarter horse

Butch James = the milky bar kid to the rescue!:D

Not taking the pee BJ, in fact it's good to see someone else with a bit of intelligence join this thread.:y:

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Guest Quarter horse

I favour anything other than the current system and in particular, a separate system encompassing Maori principles such as whanaungatanga (community input and responsibility)]

That should read as above.

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Your ignorance astounds me! Are you saying that if there were no Maori in this country that there would be relatively no crime? That we wouldn't need a welfare system?

Have you heard of Capitalism? Do you not realise that for the system to work it needs people to earn minimum wage, and work in jobs which the proud white men like yourself would never want to do? If there were no Maori then there would still be the same amount of people queing at WINZ, however they would be white. There are plenty of people who do not and choose not to work, I doubt very much that race has much to do with it.

There are a vast amount of reasons why Maori frequent many of societies less flattering statistics, and I will not go through them here. However consider this]

LOL, Maori indoctrinated logic at its best!

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Originally Posted by Quarter horse

I favour anything other than the current system and in particular, a separate system encompassing Maori principles such as whanaungatanga (community input and responsibility); ora (reciprocity and balance); tikanga (process, including the acknowledgement of an appropriate forum, i.e., a marae); and the use of Te Reo Maori as the official language during these hearings.

That should read as above.

Reply With Quote

Why did you not simply say "I favour maori indoctrination for maori criminals"

There now that's not so hard is it?

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I favour anything other than the current system and if that means a separate system encompassing Maori principles such as whanaungatanga (community input and responsibility)]To even lend support for a separate system, demonstrates a high degree of racism in itself.

Surely, you would be advocating one system for all, with no form of segregation, and a system that was able to be supported by the entire multi-cultural NZ community.

In your separated system, who would be the determinator of which system an individual fell under. If I was a pakeha, I might actually want to go under the 'maori' system, and surely, there would be no issue with that.

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Guest Quarter horse
To even lend support for a separate system, demonstrates a high degree of racism in itself.

Surely, you would be advocating one system for all, with no form of segregation, and a system that was able to be supported by the entire multi-cultural NZ community.

In your separated system, who would be the determinator of which system an individual fell under. If I was a pakeha, I might actually want to go under the 'maori' system, and surely, there would be no issue with that.

The current system plainly isn't working Rod, as evidenced by the statistics, so that deals with your point in paragraph 2.

As to paragraph 3, promoters of Maori justice have even suggested the same thing you raise. Without going into it in great deal, it has all to do with an individuals mana and tapu. Maori justice promotes restoring the mana of both the victim and the offender. The current system does little to restore the mana of the former, and nothing for the latter.

Finally, the point you make in paragraph 1 is irrelevant when you consider the context of the Treaty of Waitangi. Article 2 (Maori version) clearly states that Maori retain rangitiratanga (absolute sovereignty) over their land and their subjects. Translated it means that they have the right to resolve disputes concerning Maori by using traditional customary law.

Maori dispute resolution offers a lot more flexibility than the Pakeha system without a shadow of a doubt.

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