shaneMcAlister 1,425 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 Key prizemoney increases between 28 August – 2 April are: Industry meeting minimum stakes will increase from $10,000 to $12,000. Iconic meeting minimum prizemoney increases from $40,000 to $50,000. Premier meeting minimum prizemoney increases from $30,000 to $40,000 per race, excluding maiden races. Feature meeting minimum prizemoney increases will apply across various levels including Maiden minimums moving from $10,000 to $15,000, and Open minimums from $32,500 to $40,000. Group and Listed minimum stakes will see the following changes – Listed Races move from $50,000 to $60,000, Group 3 from $70,000 to $80,000, Group 2 races from $100,000 to $110,000 and the Group 1 minimum from $200,000 to $220,000. The increase in Group and Listed flat races will apply to the full season. Over $15,000 1st 57.5% 2nd 18.5% 3rd 9% 4th 5% 5th 2.5% 6 -10th 1.5% $15,000 and under 1st 56% 2nd 18% 3rd 9% 4th 5% 5-10th 2% THANK YOU TAB AND NZTR, THIS IN MY OPINION IS A STEP IN RIGHT DIRECTION. JJ Flash, tasman man, Baz (NZ) and 1 other 2 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 742 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 Good to see the $10,000 minimums gone.......but with more cost increases bound to be around the corner it really makes little difference ! Less races per card at some meetings will see less distributed to participants. But unless betting on NZ TAB improves ,along with margins , the situation remains dire ! chevy86 and JJ Flash 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 4,003 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 Step in the right direction but minimum stakes need to be even higher. Why can't the new stakes be introduced on August 1 rather than August 22? Baz (NZ) and chevy86 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,865 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 " target times of the racing year when we receive the greatest response, both in participation and revenue. A blanket approach does not create growth and better returns, so we need to be creative. “The Board believes this is both sensible and exciting, with a 20 per cent uplift in stakes for the period from 28 August to 2 April 2022." So presumably some stakes drop again after 2 April for the winter period. Very innovative. $45m of AWTs, but we can't afford decent stakes to fund winter racing. Patiti and tasman man 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,084 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, We're Doomed said: " target times of the racing year when we receive the greatest response, both in participation and revenue. A blanket approach does not create growth and better returns, so we need to be creative. “The Board believes this is both sensible and exciting, with a 20 per cent uplift in stakes for the period from 28 August to 2 April 2022." So presumably some stakes drop again after 2 April for the winter period. Very innovative. $45m of AWTs, but we can't afford decent stakes to fund winter racing. That seems a bit unclear. The cut off is just prior to Easter racing. Maybe they expect there will be further increases available for the balance of the season? Some indication of what happens after that would surely be helpful to those of us considering bringing horses into work between now and the end of the year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash 2,135 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 9 hours ago, We're Doomed said: Very innovative. $45m of AWTs, but we can't afford decent stakes to fund winter racing. Wasn't that a regional development imitative- Winnie spoke to Shane who provided the money - not NZTR as i recall but like most humans I've been wrong before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash 2,135 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 14 hours ago, tasman man said: But unless betting on NZ TAB improves , That's the crux of the matter . How do you make people bet more. I do wonder why many industry participants do not back the TAB and work collaboratively with them instead of always moaning about them. I'm not saying they are perfect and they have ,in the past, made some woeful decisions but isn't it time to move onwards and upwards together? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauhei Notts 1,413 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 I will be the only one on this site who wants to see the $10,000 races remain at $10,000 BUT; all riding fees to be paid by NZTR and an appearance fee to be paid of $200 for each runner. I want to see it become cheaper to find out whether your horse is worth persevering with. And the stake money split should go to 70%, 18% 8% and 4%. Such a scheme will provide more horses to bet on, but those horses might be of doubtful ability. I have joked that dishlickers are poker machines that bark. Similarly $10,000 races will be for manger lickers that neigh. JJ Flash 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,865 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 3 hours ago, JJ Flash said: Wasn't that a regional development imitative- Winnie spoke to Shane who provided the money - not NZTR as i recall but like most humans I've been wrong before. Yes, $30m provided by Shane, but the other $15m+ by the clubs. I'm still struggling with how Riccarton can be described as being in the Provinces. With such a valuable asset it would be sad if winter stakes drop. Unfortunately NZTR haven't been very clear about what that part of their announcement means. JJ Flash 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,865 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 With so much emphasis on Premier and Iconic meetings I wonder whether now might be the time to exclude maiden races from such programmes. I notice Auckland has three maidens for a premier meeting on Melbourne Cup day and Riccarton has two each day on the first two days of Cup Week. With tiered racing being encouraged, surely maidens have their opportunities elsewhere. In Australia if trainers think their maidens are good enough they are happy to race them out of their class in age group races etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 742 Report post Posted July 5, 2021 12 hours ago, We're Doomed said: " target times of the racing year when we receive the greatest response, both in participation and revenue. A blanket approach does not create growth and better returns, so we need to be creative. “The Board believes this is both sensible and exciting, with a 20 per cent uplift in stakes for the period from 28 August to 2 April 2022." So presumably some stakes drop again after 2 April for the winter period. Very innovative. $45m of AWTs, but we can't afford decent stakes to fund winter racing. Understandably a very cautious approach ! Don't forget they are coming from a position of being unable to pay their bills........insolvent ! On one hand industry participants are demanding an increase in returns via stake money while on the other hand these participants are doing their best to stifle progress. eg....Constant criticism of most things in NZ racing, encouraging folk to bet elsewhere , jealous taunting of those trying to stimulate the industry and basically preaching doom and gloom. In addition the vocal minority want the nice to have , but expensive aspects which historically have brought them joy over the ages...racing programs on radio , tracks covering all of NZ , races for their dead slow horses , more jumps racing , more TAB operators to take their $1 each way bets , cheap food , more interviwers on TV etc etc. Then the position of NZ....right next door to the best ,richest and most vibrant racing jurisdiction in world ...means any half decent horse either leaves to race there or is sold to race there . In addition our TAB ,finds it impossible to compete with the next door competitor.....its a David v Goliath scenario...... Then NZ racing specialises in the BLAME game....its everyone else's fault. Under extreme pressure from above factors NZ racing/TAB has made some expensive and shocking mistakes ,as happens in all business and walks of life. We still produce great horses , great horse people and there are many positives in NZ racing which is declining in popularity with the modern generation. It takes too much time up and costs too much to be involved and horses running around in circles is bloody boring ! Folk still love a bet ,so try to win lotto or bet on sports or on line gaming which is much easier to learn about and understand. The TAB is understandably worried that NZ betting is no sure thing so are being cautious and hoping that the resilient NZ participant will carry on a bit longer with their lousy returns and be seduced by the increase in stakes announcement. With money being so uncertain ,what else could they do ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,865 Report post Posted July 6, 2021 1 hour ago, tasman man said: Understandably a very cautious approach ! Don't forget they are coming from a position of being unable to pay their bills........insolvent ! On one hand industry participants are demanding an increase in returns via stake money while on the other hand these participants are doing their best to stifle progress. eg....Constant criticism of most things in NZ racing, encouraging folk to bet elsewhere , jealous taunting of those trying to stimulate the industry and basically preaching doom and gloom. In addition the vocal minority want the nice to have , but expensive aspects which historically have brought them joy over the ages...racing programs on radio , tracks covering all of NZ , races for their dead slow horses , more jumps racing , more TAB operators to take their $1 each way bets , cheap food , more interviwers on TV etc etc. Then the position of NZ....right next door to the best ,richest and most vibrant racing jurisdiction in world ...means any half decent horse either leaves to race there or is sold to race there . In addition our TAB ,finds it impossible to compete with the next door competitor.....its a David v Goliath scenario...... Then NZ racing specialises in the BLAME game....its everyone else's fault. Under extreme pressure from above factors NZ racing/TAB has made some expensive and shocking mistakes ,as happens in all business and walks of life. We still produce great horses , great horse people and there are many positives in NZ racing which is declining in popularity with the modern generation. It takes too much time up and costs too much to be involved and horses running around in circles is bloody boring ! Folk still love a bet ,so try to win lotto or bet on sports or on line gaming which is much easier to learn about and understand. The TAB is understandably worried that NZ betting is no sure thing so are being cautious and hoping that the resilient NZ participant will carry on a bit longer with their lousy returns and be seduced by the increase in stakes announcement. With money being so uncertain ,what else could they do ? You will note Tas, that I am not one of those who is always advocating for the nice to have things, and massive stakes increases. I seem to be one of the few who looks at turnover figures (or tries to) and thinks how the hell can we even afford what we already have? I do though think the industry is poorly run and our resources aren't used in the most efficient fashion. I also think some people have done really well out of the current situation. There are horses getting group1 placings in $200,000 races who would never be competitive in Group 1s in Aussie, or even in $200,000 races; and this gets proven over and over again when they do try their luck in Aussie. I am also surprised that the number of group races haven't been reduced as the total number of races being run keeps plummeting. Bizarrely, as the quality of NZ Racing keeps declining the number of group races keeps increasing, certainly as a % of total races. 21 group 2s in 2014/15 and 27 in 2020/21. 39 group 3s in 14/15 and 43 in 20/21. Reducing that number would be a realistic way to save a few dollars. dock leaf, Pam Robson, Baz (NZ) and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke 1,232 Report post Posted July 6, 2021 Agreed WD and also the $500k handout from NZTR to the Karaka Millions needs to cease. This scheme is run by a private company headed by one of NZ's richest. He fully deserves to be in The Racing Hall Of Fame as he has heavily supported NZ Racing and done well out it. However, as a private enterprise scheme it should stand on its own feet and not be propped up to the tune of $500k when the industry is struggling. hedley, Leggy, Pam Robson and 2 others 3 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash 2,135 Report post Posted July 6, 2021 3 hours ago, tasman man said: Understandably a very cautious approach ! Don't forget they are coming from a position of being unable to pay their bills........insolvent ! On one hand industry participants are demanding an increase in returns via stake money while on the other hand these participants are doing their best to stifle progress. eg....Constant criticism of most things in NZ racing, encouraging folk to bet elsewhere , jealous taunting of those trying to stimulate the industry and basically preaching doom and gloom. In addition the vocal minority want the nice to have , but expensive aspects which historically have brought them joy over the ages...racing programs on radio , tracks covering all of NZ , races for their dead slow horses , more jumps racing , more TAB operators to take their $1 each way bets , cheap food , more interviwers on TV etc etc So succinct which is why NZ racing is so dysfunctional. Everybody wants to have things done their way which is obviously an impossible situation. I made a post earlier about the need for collaboration with NZTAB for the betterment of all codes and stakeholders. Its unlikely to happen but it should be the number 1 priority as the current system has resulted in poor outcomes. eg Insolvency TurnyTom 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 4,003 Report post Posted July 6, 2021 Warren NSW today Maiden Races $26,100. Ballarat Synthetic Maiden Races $25,000. Rotorua Maidens tomorrow $10,000. Puts things in perspective. Baz (NZ) and TurnyTom 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakari 24 Report post Posted July 6, 2021 5 hours ago, gubellini said: Warren NSW today Maiden Races $26,100. Ballarat Synthetic Maiden Races $25,000. Rotorua Maidens tomorrow $10,000. Puts things in perspective. soliloquy and JJ Flash 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 742 Report post Posted July 6, 2021 21 hours ago, bloke said: Agreed WD and also the $500k handout from NZTR to the Karaka Millions needs to cease. This scheme is run by a private company headed by one of NZ's richest. He fully deserves to be in The Racing Hall Of Fame as he has heavily supported NZ Racing and done well out it. However, as a private enterprise scheme it should stand on its own feet and not be propped up to the tune of $500k when the industry is struggling. I disagree.....the 2 x races have now established themselves as 2 of the most ICONIC races on the years calendar and the day in general one of the top racedays. Both attract significant International interest especially from Australia. The ARC sees the value in the day contributing $1.5 mil. to the 2 x races. NZTR continues to prop up some of our traditional ICONIC races some of whom are losing some of their gloss. Last year NZTR contributed the full stake for the Telegraph and the Livamol[ Hastings] races. It contributed $360k of $400 for NZ Oaks. It contributed $150k toward toward the Coupland mile.etc etc If any club or organisation can create a major raceday and /or races then NZTR should be contributing and assisting the growth.....a good investment IMO JJ Flash 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy86 2,707 Report post Posted July 6, 2021 1 hour ago, tasman man said: I disagree.....the 2 x races have now established themselves as 2 of the most ICONIC races on the years calendar and the day in general one of the top racedays. Last year NZTR contributed the full stake for the Telegraph and the Livamol[ Hastings] races. It contributed $360k of $400 for NZ Oaks. It contributed $150k toward toward the Coupland mile.etc etc All true T Man, but the salient point is that all these races are "Open" to all horses. Unlike the Karaka Millions races which are open only to those that have enriched NZB. bloke, hedley, We're Doomed and 1 other 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 3 hours ago, tasman man said: I disagree.....the 2 x races have now established themselves as 2 of the most ICONIC races on the years calendar and the day in general one of the top racedays. Both attract significant International interest especially from Australia. The ARC sees the value in the day contributing $1.5 mil. to the 2 x races. NZTR continues to prop up some of our traditional ICONIC races some of whom are losing some of their gloss. Last year NZTR contributed the full stake for the Telegraph and the Livamol[ Hastings] races. It contributed $360k of $400 for NZ Oaks. It contributed $150k toward toward the Coupland mile.etc etc If any club or organisation can create a major raceday and /or races then NZTR should be contributing and assisting the growth.....a good investment IMO While that's all very good ... for getting you a nice table on KM night, the fact of the matter is the KM fields would be no different, the party would be no different, the amount of posers out in force would be no different, the hyperbole and hoopla would be no different and probably even the prices paid at the sales would be no different if both of those races were run for $500k! As for your claims regarding race days and clubs inputs you show a complete misunderstanding for how it all actually works, this KM day is gifted to the ARC by those that run NZracing , NZTR in its wisdom seldom strays from its approach in appeasing those that run NZracing (see Stakes distribution, clubs in line for closure via assistance (most of it underhanded I might add) from NZTR amongst others , free PR etc etc for further examples) and thus bow and scrape to their beck and call. tasman man, Pam Robson, JJ Flash and 4 others 4 1 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,865 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 4 hours ago, tasman man said: "NZTR continues to prop up some of our traditional ICONIC races some of whom are losing some of their gloss." The derby? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fermoy 226 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 4:29 PM, shaneMcAlister said: Key prizemoney increases between 28 August – 2 April are: Industry meeting minimum stakes will increase from $10,000 to $12,000. Iconic meeting minimum prizemoney increases from $40,000 to $50,000. Premier meeting minimum prizemoney increases from $30,000 to $40,000 per race, excluding maiden races. Feature meeting minimum prizemoney increases will apply across various levels including Maiden minimums moving from $10,000 to $15,000, and Open minimums from $32,500 to $40,000. Group and Listed minimum stakes will see the following changes – Listed Races move from $50,000 to $60,000, Group 3 from $70,000 to $80,000, Group 2 races from $100,000 to $110,000 and the Group 1 minimum from $200,000 to $220,000. The increase in Group and Listed flat races will apply to the full season. Over $15,000 1st 57.5% 2nd 18.5% 3rd 9% 4th 5% 5th 2.5% 6 -10th 1.5% $15,000 and under 1st 56% 2nd 18% 3rd 9% 4th 5% 5-10th 2% THANK YOU TAB AND NZTR, THIS IN MY OPINION IS A STEP IN RIGHT DIRECTION. So what are Feature meeting r65 and r74 stakes going to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,425 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, fermoy said: So what are Feature meeting r65 and r74 stakes going to? $30K I believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerula 1,403 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 742 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 10 hours ago, Huey said: While that's all very good ... for getting you a nice table on KM night, the fact of the matter is the KM fields would be no different, the party would be no different, the amount of posers out in force would be no different, the hyperbole and hoopla would be no different and probably even the prices paid at the sales would be no different if both of those races were run for $500k! As for your claims regarding race days and clubs inputs you show a complete misunderstanding for how it all actually works, this KM day is gifted to the ARC by those that run NZracing , NZTR in its wisdom seldom strays from its approach in appeasing those that run NZracing (see Stakes distribution, clubs in line for closure via assistance (most of it underhanded I might add) from NZTR amongst others , free PR etc etc for further examples) and thus bow and scrape to their beck and call. I bow to your superior knowledge , that the KM day was gifted !!!! And a matter of fact too ,silly me thinking it was held on the top rated course ...I thought it a reward for leadership. But I'll take the insults along with the cynicism and envy as sure sign you got little to offer. Love the poser insult , in fact I enjoy the vibe of KM day in the best viewing area...the public stand ,with the odd venture into the BGP area to enjoy the VIBE there ! Its a rare day when Aussies are competing and JMcDonald ,Bowman,Berry , CWilliams among others on show ! So sorry that clubs dear and near to you are set for closure ,maybe you should try and put this behind you ......things can't be as bad and difficult as you make out....there is help out there ! JJ Flash and Blossom Lady 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 742 Report post Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/6/2021 at 12:53 PM, We're Doomed said: You will note Tas, that I am not one of those who is always advocating for the nice to have things, and massive stakes increases. I seem to be one of the few who looks at turnover figures (or tries to) and thinks how the hell can we even afford what we already have? I do though think the industry is poorly run and our resources aren't used in the most efficient fashion. I also think some people have done really well out of the current situation. There are horses getting group1 placings in $200,000 races who would never be competitive in Group 1s in Aussie, or even in $200,000 races; and this gets proven over and over again when they do try their luck in Aussie. I am also surprised that the number of group races haven't been reduced as the total number of races being run keeps plummeting. Bizarrely, as the quality of NZ Racing keeps declining the number of group races keeps increasing, certainly as a % of total races. 21 group 2s in 2014/15 and 27 in 2020/21. 39 group 3s in 14/15 and 43 in 20/21. Reducing that number would be a realistic way to save a few dollars. Group and listed races are planned a year in advance and there is no way of knowing so far in advance the standard of horse cos up to 4 horses can seriously influence the quality of a race. These races ,listed and group, are reviewed regularly and there are currently several on alert and warning that are sitting pretty for a downgrade. As for you WD I note you take a lot of interest in maiden races and have a strong bias toward the South Island. My main areas of involvement , timewise, Otago and Tasman have both suffered serious declines in their racing action and it hasnt been hard to see why. Hard to blame anyone other than themselves. I went to Forbury last week and man was it bleak ! Sure its winter but so bleak . Wingatui too seems a far cry from past as well. The South gallops seems a dumping ground for slow and struggling Notherners......recently saw 9 out of 12 ex-Northerners in one race !I guess the stakes mostly similar . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...