RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
John Clydesdale

Frankel - Special Racehorse - Super Stallion

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Statistics will tell you many things, but to get the base line of accuracy, you have to establish the basic detail. Frankel was such a special racehorse that he was always going to get the best opportunity as a stallion, with mares of pedigree depths that we in NZ struggle to comprehend. To use the George phrase……Early doors…..you think you are looking at high class stayers, maybe later maturing types. Breeders recognised what that fella needed and have sent him faster mares, now we have two 2YO’s come out of one breeder in OZ who has a Group 1 winner over a mile and a filly that wins first up tuther day down the Flemington straight and has 3YO written all over the performance. What a fabulous stallion and what a challenging game we breeders play.

We all need the best of luck.

John 

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The dominance of GALILEO up here is astonishing.

The 2001 Derby winner has become not only a top stallion in his own right but a sire of top stallions as well.

FRANKEL is his best son - his best daughter is FOUND who has been the most successful in terms of prize money winning over £5 million in win and place. FRANKEL was the sire of this year's Derby winner while SNOWFALL is by Deep Impact out of a Galileo mare.

GALILEO is still producing sons to become future sires - ULYSSES is a freshman sire in the northern hemisphere and he's a son of you-know-who.

His influence is extending across the world into Japan (as we can see) and inevitably to the southern hemisphere though the loss of RIP VAN WINKLE last year was a blow.

That of course still leaves the likes of NATHANIEL, AUSTRALIA and WALDGEIST to name but three.

The big question is what will happen once GALILEO dies or is retired - his influence through his sons will continue but of course Coolmore are looking for the "next big thing".  

 

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11 hours ago, stodge said:

The dominance of GALILEO up here is astonishing.

The 2001 Derby winner has become not only a top stallion in his own right but a sire of top stallions as well.

FRANKEL is his best son - his best daughter is FOUND who has been the most successful in terms of prize money winning over £5 million in win and place. FRANKEL was the sire of this year's Derby winner while SNOWFALL is by Deep Impact out of a Galileo mare.

GALILEO is still producing sons to become future sires - ULYSSES is a freshman sire in the northern hemisphere and he's a son of you-know-who.

His influence is extending across the world into Japan (as we can see) and inevitably to the southern hemisphere though the loss of RIP VAN WINKLE last year was a blow.

That of course still leaves the likes of NATHANIEL, AUSTRALIA and WALDGEIST to name but three.

The big question is what will happen once GALILEO dies or is retired - his influence through his sons will continue but of course Coolmore are looking for the "next big thing".  

 

Should I use Circus Maximus this season down here in NZ?

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All well and good if you get 39 group one winning mares and 89 group performed mares in your first season. I wrote about these stats once before. There have been 60 odd group one winning sons of Galileo go to stud. Not many are making it the way you might have thought.

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2 hours ago, Berri said:

All well and good if you get 39 group one winning mares and 89 group performed mares in your first season. I wrote about these stats once before. There have been 60 odd group one winning sons of Galileo go to stud. Not many are making it the way you might have thought.

Exactly my thinking; but could it be Circus Maximus who climbs above the rest?....... Frankel excluded?

Whilst he [CM] very obviously didn't have the brilliance of Frankel, he did win the same two very important races i.e. Saint James's Palace Stakes and the Queen Anne Stakes.

Sadly or gladly the 2000GNS was missing, otherwise he wouldn't be available to us colonials at 20K.

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On 6/14/2021 at 7:45 PM, Insider said:

Should I use Circus Maximus this season down here in NZ?

As they say - Just do it!

Having said that if I was still stupid enough to breed a racehorse (no offence intended) I'd look at using the son of Kingman on his way to NZ. 

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On 6/15/2021 at 4:29 PM, Berri said:

All well and good if you get 39 group one winning mares and 89 group performed mares in your first season. I wrote about these stats once before. There have been 60 odd group one winning sons of Galileo go to stud. Not many are making it the way you might have thought.

Berri, I am only talking about one son of the big G, and what he might leave………..that remains to be seen. But in terms of Frankel…….well……………..????

Not every son of Mr P and Danzig were flash.

Cheers

John

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Both Mr P and Danzig spat out a multitude of  seriously good sire sons. Go no further than Fappiano, Kingmambo, Forty Niner and Miswaki just to name a few for Mr P and Danehill, Green Desert, Anaba and War Chant to name a few for Danzig

Mr Prospector - 1,195 named foals, he sired 182 stakes winners (15.1%)

Danzig - 1,016 named foals sired 188 stakes winners (18.5%)

Galileo - 2,743 foals sired 306 stakes winners (11.2%)*

Danehill - 2,485 foals sired 347 stakes winners (13.9%)

Northern Dancer -  731 foals sired 147 stakes winners (20.1%)

* Still siring them

Teofilio is probably Galileo's best followed by Frankel. 

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14 hours ago, John Clydesdale said:

Berri, I am only talking about one son of the big G, and what he might leave………..that remains to be seen. But in terms of Frankel…….well……………..????

Not every son of Mr P and Danzig were flash.

Cheers

John

Juddmonte bred stallions got a winner at every UK meeting yesterday  to go with Surefire .

Frankel got Grp3 at Royal Ascot , plus winner at Chelmsford and Ripon .

New Bay picked up the Brittania 

First Defence got on board at Lingfield 

Spanish Moon got one over the sticks at Ffos Las .

Frankel has got at least  three now at Ascot this week as got the last two on first day . He has a few to go yet . What amazes me is they go on a wide variety of trips.  The Grand Visir heads out over 2 mile 6 in few days .

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16 hours ago, John Clydesdale said:

Pleased about New Bay Red. One starter one winner, and he has Jumby tonight with a chance. Breeding from a close relly, and it is the family of Kingman, so happy that they both keep doing well.

Cheers

John

Every day everywhere  JC their stallions keep rolling , Oamaru yesterday , trifecta through Raise the Flag and Zacinto , Zacinto grabbed a win in later race and Showcasing bobs up with a placegetter .

Got decent draft in July HIT sales ,Lot  520 Destinado , I'd be interested who gets him. Lope De Vega gelding , out of half sister to Enable . Couple of quiet places in  provinces then hot favorite in Longchamp handicap over 2800 metres , ran just OK but clearly has some ability . Few decent ex French runners from the Stud over the years , Foreteller, Harlem and Finche a few of them, admittedly they had runs on board.  

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Five wins in UK and Ireland last night for Frankel , including Irish Derby , got three timer at Newmarket .

Other Juddmonte bred stallions on scoresheet , Rail Link got the " Pitmans Derby " winner aka The Northumberland Plate , ex Sir Henry Cecil trained Camacho got a winner as well .

In Australia Trade Fair got winner of Strickland Stakes in WA .

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On 6/19/2021 at 1:56 PM, Red Rum said:

Every day everywhere  JC their stallions keep rolling , Oamaru yesterday , trifecta through Raise the Flag and Zacinto , Zacinto grabbed a win in later race and Showcasing bobs up with a placegetter .

Got decent draft in July HIT sales ,Lot  520 Destinado , I'd be interested who gets him. Lope De Vega gelding , out of half sister to Enable . Couple of quiet places in  provinces then hot favorite in Longchamp handicap over 2800 metres , ran just OK but clearly has some ability . Few decent ex French runners from the Stud over the years , Foreteller, Harlem and Finche a few of them, admittedly they had runs on board.  

Zacinto won first at riccarton and the last race to I think, I like the raise the flag stock, the Australian progeny have done especially well, and can jump well two, ablaze left nz with six wins and 90k in stakes, now won 12 or so and 800k, more staying races for them over there, I am a tad biased as we have a rising 7yr old by rtf, had plenty of issues with him but we live in hope. 

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8 hours ago, Shad said:

Zacinto won first at riccarton and the last race to I think, I like the raise the flag stock, the Australian progeny have done especially well, and can jump well two, ablaze left nz with six wins and 90k in stakes, now won 12 or so and 800k, more staying races for them over there, I am a tad biased as we have a rising 7yr old by rtf, had plenty of issues with him but we live in hope. 

Oasis Dream and Redwood 1 and 2 in first jumps race yesterday at Te Aroha .Oasis Dream wouldn't have too many jumpers .  

Almost a rare blank day for them yesterday but Spanish Moon that good middle distance horse ex Stoute yard dug one out over fences at Uttoxeter . 

Frankel has had a few hurdle winners Solo Saxophone has done a decent job ., nothing over fences but I'd guess by end this season in UK and Ire one will bob in . 

 

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Full sister to Frankel  , Chiasma broke her maiden at 3rd time asking on poly at Kempton in a novice race  last night , placed all three runs now and beat couple previous winners . Looked a decent field for an evening at Kempton . Frankel then sired the next winner .

Frankel filly Zagato had also broke her maiden like Chiasma out the Gosden yard over at Thirsk that afternoon . Out of high class Izzi Top so from the Meon Valley stud family that is full of group 1 winners including Russian Camelot .

Bated Breath got a listed winner at Tipperary , Famous Name a winner over fences at Worcester and New Bay got a mile and half handicap winner yesterday that Easterby reckons could go higher .

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1 hour ago, Red Rum said:

Full sister to Frankel  , Chiasma broke her maiden at 3rd time asking on poly at Kempton in a novice race  last night , placed all three runs now and beat couple previous winners . Looked a decent field for an evening at Kempton . Frankel then sired the next winner .

Frankel filly Zagato had also broke her maiden like Chiasma out the Gosden yard over at Thirsk that afternoon . Out of high class Izzi Top so from the Meon Valley stud family that is full of group 1 winners including Russian Camelot .

Bated Breath got a listed winner at Tipperary , Famous Name a winner over fences at Worcester and New Bay got a mile and half handicap winner yesterday that Easterby reckons could go higher .

Just as Soon yesterday's Melbourne winner from same Meon Valley  Stud  family . They produce so many good horses from that family , Zagato with Frankel connection will be worth serious money I'd guess. Just needs to grab some black type .

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On 6/18/2021 at 9:25 PM, John Clydesdale said:

Pleased about New Bay Red. One starter one winner, and he has Jumby tonight with a chance. Breeding from a close relly, and it is the family of Kingman, so happy that they both keep doing well.

Cheers

John

Not sure if you been keeping an eye on New Bay  JC , he is banging home the winners , couple have had a few wins . About 22 wins UK and Ire past 3 months , about 6 or 7 past fortnight  , he pops up regularly now . Mick Easterby has one called Caraphilliy , won again yesterday and in again on Thursday , be interesting to see if he runs  .Has about 3 in overnight .

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If I had the money I would look at a Frankel colt in the Tattersalls July sale this week. Seventh Kingdom. Buy it and send it to Chris Waller (or one of the other Kiwi trainers in Aussie) and hopefully they could teach him to start a lot better, for a start. Good pedigree and good potential as long as are not selling because they think he needs gelding.

Oh well dreams are free !!

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44 minutes ago, Breeder said:

If I had the money I would look at a Frankel colt in the Tattersalls July sale this week. Seventh Kingdom. Buy it and send it to Chris Waller (or one of the other Kiwi trainers in Aussie) and hopefully they could teach him to start a lot better, for a start. Good pedigree and good potential as long as are not selling because they think he needs gelding.

Oh well dreams are free !!

Interesting horse , Gosden then he moved to  France .Rated  100 in UK on back of that good July Stakes run  . Half brother 103 , middle to upper tier sprint  handicapper now , ran the other day called Lahore .

First  race at Ripon last night Frankel got another winner as broodmare sire , 3 out of 6 to run have won , and only one hasn't placed and that one only had 1 run. Those six had about 10 runs in total only so strike rate looks good .

Destinado iam watching in sales this week. 

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What made me look a little closer, just as an exercise, was he is from Invincible Spirit's family on the female side. Quite a bit of that family on the male side in Aust/NZ, so as a stallion prospect he would have potential down here. I notice they have video up now. Do the UK trainers have their horse a lot leaner than we see down here or is it the breeding (ie. not so muscular). I have looked at a few videos for the sale and quite a few look like they need a really good feed !!

 

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3 hours ago, Breeder said:

What made me look a little closer, just as an exercise, was he is from Invincible Spirit's family on the female side. Quite a bit of that family on the male side in Aust/NZ, so as a stallion prospect he would have potential down here. I notice they have video up now. Do the UK trainers have their horse a lot leaner than we see down here or is it the breeding (ie. not so muscular). I have looked at a few videos for the sale and quite a few look like they need a really good feed !!

 

I am a council estate boy when it comes to confirmation etc Breeder bar the very basics  , but I love looking at racehorses though,  the smell , the noise , etc takes the stress out of life leaning by a paddock watching them go round pre race . Beautiful , been watching them for 40 years . My best go at it would be like humans , the middle distance upwards runners are slight and slim with lower muscle tone to give them the endurance , no big muscles burning energy ,bit like old Frank Bruno used to gas out in the ring with his ripping muscles burning the fuel too quick at times  ,the Euro breds slighted build so less burn in the muscles , the sprinters a ball of muscle . I have been racing Stateside a few times , the dirt bred sprinters are immense , just power pack ready to go boom from the gate burning the fuel in 6 furlongs , .In short wouldn't worry me if the horse was a bit slim in the sales overnight .

Watched that Grand Promande Saturday,  lovely horse , for a stayer on TV he gave a more muscled look about him .

As I said an amateur on confirmation , and breeding to be fair but very interested in it . 

Be interested to hear a non amateurs thoughts .

Looking forward to seeing how your pick goes in sales .

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On 7/7/2021 at 9:53 AM, Breeder said:

What made me look a little closer, just as an exercise, was he is from Invincible Spirit's family on the female side. Quite a bit of that family on the male side in Aust/NZ, so as a stallion prospect he would have potential down here. I notice they have video up now. Do the UK trainers have their horse a lot leaner than we see down here or is it the breeding (ie. not so muscular). I have looked at a few videos for the sale and quite a few look like they need a really good feed !!

 

42000 Guineas to Barratt Racing , not sure who they are but brought a few yesterday . 

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