Great Vibe at Cambridge's Opening day on Synthetic track !

[Red Rum 1,833]

8 minutes ago, pogo(aus) said:

red rum seriously mate this thread is getting ridiculous either that or youre a better p1sstaker than Zelda K

tell me one thing

if synthetic track racing is so good why isnt it the predominant racing surface ?

i re iterate synthetic track racing is for second rate slugs racing in winter to avoid washouts and ONLY to ensure some level of turnover and partcipation.

its a weed in racings beautiful garden.

 

Only weeds are in some of the turf tracks here nothing grows through that tarmac base on the poly . All chemicals, minerals  and oil those tracks . I like AW , my old man hates it , calls it dog racing with jockeys on so we have the same discussions. It was a real improvement back in day when UK racing was off for long periods and they beamed in over the tannoy pre TV in bookies days French Trots in replacement , try punting on horses you cannot see , all with same letter at start of  names and working out what the Fxxk is going on when a horse is DQd mid race when having a lunchtime punt , I am sure that's why some bookies installed security screens in their shops to keep them safe after that crap . 

[Red Rum 1,833]

21 minutes ago, pogo(aus) said:

red rum seriously mate this thread is getting ridiculous either that or youre a better p1sstaker than Zelda K

tell me one thing

if synthetic track racing is so good why isnt it the predominant racing surface ?

i re iterate synthetic track racing is for second rate slugs racing in winter to avoid washouts and ONLY to ensure some level of turnover and partcipation.

its a weed in racings beautiful garden.

 

Also, after yesterday's budget in NZ  I am giving up hauling arse at all hours  in mid winter working shifts , I am heading onto the  dole and going to make it my full time job looking through Pakenham , Ballarat , Geelong , Canberra results to unearth a Grp 1 winner out of there to disprove once and for all the slugfest theory. 

[Red Rum 1,833]

2 hours ago, stodge said:

Okay - the split over here these days is between Polytrack and Tapeta and both seem well supported.

I thought there was very little kickback at Cambridge which wasn't always the case in the early Polytrack days at Lingfield.

It's worth remembering the track can be prepared for whatever is required - a normal harrow for what we call "Standard" but it can be harrowed deeper to emulate slower turf. This is often done for the Jumpers' Bumpers cards in the winter but can also happen in hot summer conditions as a way of keeping the worst of the heat off the track.

It's not unknown for "Standard to Slow" to be the description in summer or for the Jumpers' Bumpers meeting. I can count the number of times it's been called "Slow" on the figures of one hand.

It shouldn't be an issue for NZ but in the UK the track has to be constantly worked during periods of low temperatures - several degrees below freezing. Meetings have been lost to frost and snow especially but not exclusively at Wolverhampton and Newcastle.

 

Tempering and Suluk  on the Fibresand at Southwell , Rapporteur on the old equitrack surface at Lingfield , like free money back in the day Stodge.

[Red Rum 1,833]

Zoutori , Newmarket winner this year,  couldn't win a Pakenham maiden on Synthetic  , he's no slug .

[We're Doomed 4,855]

I thought that AWT at Timaru went well yesterday. Probably the first "good" track anywhere in the country for a while.

[Baz (NZ) 1,722]

Lets face it... the all weather Synthetic track at Cambridge is no Strathayr turf surface that the proposed Auckland Turf Club is going to implement.
As I've stated before nothing less than a premier Strathayr turf racetrack is required for Premier racing in NZ !
The Cambridge installed all weather track will have it's purpose for trainer's preparing there better horses for spring campaigns and slower horses in winter that would otherwise be in a paddock.
Remember this is nothing more than a midweek class racetrack for Maidens, Rating 65's & 74's at best... that fit's a purpose in the small scheme of things.
This will do little to attract punters or increase much needed turnover NZ Racing needs!
We need more Premier Strathayr turf racetracks installed south of the Bombay's in horse populated areas if we want premier racing, with high class thoroughbreds and increased turnover from punters!
However after watching the inaugural running of the first meeting on Wednesday I was buoyed by the fact it played well for all runners with little evidence of the boring leader's bias these all weather tracks generally produce.
There is hope for punter's confidence if this trend can continue after the honeymoon period!
Congratulations to Cambridge JC for all the hard work that resulted in a successful first days racing on the new racetrack.
Positivity and team work particularly at Club level is always needed to help move NZ Racing forward into the future because in recent years its lacked strong leadership at any higher level.
 

[Nerula 1,402]

Visually the Cambridge track looked better than I expected. I saw racing at Churchill Downs and it was after heavy rain.  Kind of slurry and it looked very unattractive. A lot of kickback and horses running wide.

But not worse the heavy tracks here when they head for the outside rail in the home stretch.

Too early to tell yet how Cambridge pans out. Pogo's summation above could be on the money but in saying so the track should fulfil its function.

[tasman man 742]

1 hour ago, Nerula said:

Visually the Cambridge track looked better than I expected. I saw racing at Churchill Downs and it was after heavy rain.  Kind of slurry and it looked very unattractive. A lot of kickback and horses running wide.

But not worse the heavy tracks here when they head for the outside rail in the home stretch.

Too early to tell yet how Cambridge pans out. Pogo's summation above could be on the money but in saying so the track should fulfil its function.

What are the similarities between the Churchill Downs dirt track and the polytrack in NZ ?

I been to the Louisville dirt track too and that really is a Goat track.....with an alarming safety record !

Closer to home both Randwick and Caulfield have training polytracks .....ditto now Cambridge.

Please explain the similarities you refer to ,other than both being non-grass !

[Nerula 1,402]

What are you getting at? Of course the distinction is neither Cambridge or Churchill Downs tracks are grass tracks.

[stodge 1,940]

1 hour ago, Nerula said:

What are you getting at? Of course the distinction is neither Cambridge or Churchill Downs tracks are grass tracks.

There's a huge difference between the likes of Polytrack and the traditional American Dirt track which does become Sloppy (and quicker) after rain.

Rain doesn't (or shouldn't) impact Polytrack or Tapeta (I don't know about Strathayr - we don't have it in the UK).

That's NOT to say all Polytracks are the same - they aren't. Some of that is in how they are laid down but it's also about how they are worked and maintained. It's curious form from one Polytrack doesn't always translate to another track with ostensibly the same surface.

[stodge 1,940]

22 hours ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Lets face it... the all weather Synthetic track at Cambridge is no Strathayr turf surface that the proposed Auckland Turf Club is going to implement.
As I've stated before nothing less than a premier Strathayr turf racetrack is required for Premier racing in NZ !
The Cambridge installed all weather track will have it's purpose for trainer's preparing there better horses for spring campaigns and slower horses in winter that would otherwise be in a paddock.
Remember this is nothing more than a midweek class racetrack for Maidens, Rating 65's & 74's at best... that fit's a purpose in the small scheme of things.
This will do little to attract punters or increase much needed turnover NZ Racing needs!
We need more Premier Strathayr turf racetracks installed south of the Bombay's in horse populated areas if we want premier racing, with high class thoroughbreds and increased turnover from punters!
However after watching the inaugural running of the first meeting on Wednesday I was buoyed by the fact it played well for all runners with little evidence of the boring leader's bias these all weather tracks generally produce.
There is hope for punter's confidence if this trend can continue after the honeymoon period!
Congratulations to Cambridge JC for all the hard work that resulted in a successful first days racing on the new racetrack.
Positivity and team work particularly at Club level is always needed to help move NZ Racing forward into the future because in recent years its lacked strong leadership at any higher level.
 

That was originally the plan in the UK and to a certain extent it still does fulfil the functions you describe.

It's impossible to deny, however, the quality of horse running on artificial surfaces has improved. As others have said, the likes of CROSS COUNTER (who won a small handicap in Victoria I believe) and ENABLE both ran on the artificial surfaces.

It's a much better place to start a late 2-y-o or an early 3-y-o than heavy turf and it's also a better surface than firm or over-watered turf which can be loose and inconsistent. I should add some tracks, such as Bath, are traditional downland and are wonderful racing surfaces whether Firm or Soft. That's why the top Newmarket trainers send runners for maidens at Lingfield and Newcastle in November and December.

It's also worth noting it provides an income stream for smaller Owners, Trainers and Jockeys (and many others) where before cold weather would have meant no racing. 

I don't have a view on Strathayr because we don't have it in the UK - is it better than Tapeta or Polytrack? The vast majority of horses can switch from those surfaces to grass without too much problem but there are artificial surface specialists and indeed there are calls for differential handicapping (just as we have for hurdlers and chasers) for AW specialists but that's another debate.

Given there are many more slow horses than quick ones, it's inevitable most races will be for lower quality horses. Even today, while the four afternoon meetings at Group 1 venues (Goodwood, Haydock, Newmarket and York) have nothing below a Class 4, tonight's Lingfield card has Class 5 and 6 races and the latter type dominate the midweek and Sunday cards.

[Nerula 1,402]

Strathayr is the gold standard. essentially it is mesh over subsoil and drainage. The grass roots grow through the mesh so that the top layer is anchored.

Looking for a simile, perhaps radial tyre.  

[pogo(aus) 876]

did anyone that went to the all wether track meeting where the VIBE was so good keep a racebook?

Zelda K keeps narking me as to why no one has answered her Question  re the prizemoney.

how much Cyril Ash was distributed per race , how much for the winner ????

 

[Nerula 1,402]

I didnt go  but advise the 9 races were 10k each. So about 5k to the winner less 10% to trainer, less 5%to the rider, less the racing plates, less the float fees.

But your laugh for today is they pay horses that dont weigh in 200 bucks down to 14th and only 12 can start on this track.. In fact 100 staters on the day so NZTR southed $5200 of the stakes. That 5.77% of the overall/

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

45 minutes ago, pogo(aus) said:

did anyone that went to the all wether track meeting where the VIBE was so good keep a racebook?

Zelda K keeps narking me as to why no one has answered her Question  re the prizemoney.

how much Cyril Ash was distributed per race , how much for the winner ????

 

The same shit $10k per race that industry days have. 

[pogo(aus) 876]

ok , so $5000 less $500 trainer , less another $250 jockey , racing plates how much ( $200 here) float fees , strapper ?? , do you have a % deduction for equine welfare ? 3% here ....

how much a day for training fees  ??   $125 here ( metro) 

was the VIBE for the owners good or just the punters scolling the speights or coronas  and looking at the flower garden not the weeds .

 

 

[Nerula 1,402]

Racing plates $164 Country farrier - Training $56 day country trainer but the comms are shit - Training Top lever trainer $75 a day 

[pogo(aus) 876]

forget the VIBE

concentrate on one of the real issues and get a bit of this 

https://www.roundup.com/en-us/products/lawn-weeds-bugs/roundup-lawns1-ready-use

[Heninz 4]

It looked fantastic, can’t wait to see it for myself

[Tauhei Notts 1,412]

Nerula's comment ten hours ago was incorrect.

The winning stake in the 2000 metre $10,000 race at Cambridge was worth $6200 to the winner, whereas the winner's stake at a $10,000 race at, say, Matamata, is only $5400.

I think that NZTR lave learnt a lesson from the West Coast circuit in January when they had $200 stakes for the 13th and 14th horses, but only twelve gates at the starting barrier.. 

[Nerula 1,402]

Thats interesting TN. There is wide unhappiness about paying down to 14th. I hope this move is a result of that.

NZTR said the stakes for next season would be out in May. Lets hope they have built a reserve of funds and the 10k races are a thing of the past

[We're Doomed 4,855]

14 hours ago, Tauhei Notts said:

Nerula's comment ten hours ago was incorrect.

The winning stake in the 2000 metre $10,000 race at Cambridge was worth $6200 to the winner, whereas the winner's stake at a $10,000 race at, say, Matamata, is only $5400.

I think that NZTR lave learnt a lesson from the West Coast circuit in January when they had $200 stakes for the 13th and 14th horses, but only twelve gates at the starting barrier.. 

I think you need to delve into that a little further Tauhei. The way it appears to work is that in a 10 horse field the winner gets $6,200. In a 12 horse field the winner gets $5,800. In a 14 horse field the winner gets $5,400. In a 16 horse field the winner gets $5,400 and the last two horses get nothing. And that is based on starting limits. If scratchings reduce the field who knows what happens. But even that is not consistent. I see at HB this week the winner in a 10 horse field gets $5,400.

Mick and Mouse are the two words that come to mind. I would love you to explain the logic behind all that to me.

My own interpretation is that they haven't got the faintest idea what is going on.

I did love your quote "I think that NZTR have learnt a lesson". Pigs and flying are the two words that come to mind there.

[Huey 2,037]

3 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

I think you need to delve into that a little further Tauhei. The way it appears to work is that in a 10 horse field the winner gets $6,200. In a 12 horse field the winner gets $5,800. In a 14 horse field the winner gets $5,400. In a 16 horse field the winner gets $5,400 and the last two horses get nothing. And that is based on starting limits. If scratchings reduce the field who knows what happens. But even that is not consistent. I see at HB this week the winner in a 10 horse field gets $5,400.

Mick and Mouse are the two words that come to mind. I would love you to explain the logic behind all that to me.

My own interpretation is that they haven't got the faintest idea what is going on.

I did love your quote "I think that NZTR have learnt a lesson". Pigs and flying are the two words that come to mind there.

I think it may be based around the "vibe" at the time.

Agree and these are the people running racing in NZ in which we are supposed to have faith , they make it up as they go along , like most things.

[tasman man 742]

3 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

I think you need to delve into that a little further Tauhei. The way it appears to work is that in a 10 horse field the winner gets $6,200. In a 12 horse field the winner gets $5,800. In a 14 horse field the winner gets $5,400. In a 16 horse field the winner gets $5,400 and the last two horses get nothing. And that is based on starting limits. If scratchings reduce the field who knows what happens. But even that is not consistent. I see at HB this week the winner in a 10 horse field gets $5,400.

Mick and Mouse are the two words that come to mind. I would love you to explain the logic behind all that to me.

My own interpretation is that they haven't got the faintest idea what is going on.

I did love your quote "I think that NZTR have learnt a lesson". Pigs and flying are the two words that come to mind there.

Cheer up WD......a lot of great things in the 'pipeline'.......Fighting back from the brink !

My vibe on this stakes anomaly is as per the NZTR racing conditions and regulations......and I must add that I have voiced my disgust at the $10 k stakes for maiden races.Discussed it again just last week with ARC CEO and gave him some ideas re race programs IF the merger takes place and stakes move to new level.

So badly needed.

The current rule re stakes.......based on a field size of 14 horses 

1st....54%

2nd....15%

3rd......7%

4th .....4%

5th to 14th......2%

On the miserable $10 k stake these easy to work out......2% = $200

If a tracks Field Size limit is only 12 eg Cambridge Polytrack 970 and 1300 and 1550 m ,then the 13th and 14th money goes to the winner.

$5400 goes to $5800.

Race 9 last week was a 2000m race where the Field size limit is only 10 so the 11th to 14th payment goes to the winner........$6200.

Otherwise % stays the same.

[Huey 2,037]

17 hours ago, Nerula said:

Thats interesting TN. There is wide unhappiness about paying down to 14th. I hope this move is a result of that.

NZTR said the stakes for next season would be out in May. Lets hope they have built a reserve of funds and the 10k races are a thing of the past

Thats odd I've only heard push back from the usual crowd in racing, most participants seem to like it.

The actual starters fee itself is one of the better ideas in racing. Complaining about a whole $400-800 in prizemoney (before deductions & yes I realise about Saturday racing figs) leaves me with little wonder why racing is in the state it is in NZ.