Berri

Not cricket

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, barryb said:

Are you for real?

You knew the horse and you knew the race, took me less than 10 secs to find the answer.

Melody Belle (NZ) :: Racing Queensland

Are you for real big barry.......I had no interest in looking this up.

Thanks for the lesson , but is this info official and up to date ?

Looks like there has been no change in gear since 2016....the intensity in this thread suggested something new !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, tasman man said:

I guess I'm one of the mob Berri refers to.......I ain't seen ,met or heard the 'everyone' who thinks she over good.

In fact most say and write she is not as good as Winx or Sunline but as Berri said she has been an amazing mare ,truly good for about 5 full seasons and established herself as one of NZ's greats ........at least twice Horse of Year ,14 x Group 1's and has beaten Sunlines record on the way to wins from 900 to 2040m.

She has raced extensively ,not scared to take on good opposition on both sides of Tasman.....she has thrown in a few shockers at times but bounces back and has only raced about 40 x times.She has been well managed.

Berri must be close to the action as he claims to have knowledge of  bogged up feet , but not close enough to use the trainer or managing owners names.

Plus he states the Hollindale as her swansong when for weeks it has been reported that the Doomben Cup was her final race.

In several reports after final trial and in past week the plan was revealed.

Maybe Berri's post is a dig at Te Akau, Richards and JGalvin and the bogged up feet ,not worth noting or untrue ?

The horse has been well managed.....I think she has over 30 owners who would share in decision making by way of democratic vote .The trainer , Jamie Richards  several times has stated that she not at peak for yesterday and would improve for her last start prior to sale.

Funny how Kiwis long for the days when our top horses raced regularly in NZ ,  cos top horses create interest etc ,yet this 'champion' along with others such as Sir Slick and Show Gate attract criticism for their owners......over raced , entered in wrong races ,wrong distance etc

If Melody Belle was to be questioned ,I thought it would be her 2400m start recently......an untried and possibly unsuitable distance ,especially at highest level.

The Owners obviously had a 'vision' and as with Sir Slick and Showgates , they have every right .........hardly greed. 

Back in the good old days there were Melbourne Cup winners who went back to the well for whatever reason ,Berri might remember.

Van Der Hum won the MC ,then had a bit of time off but never won another race for 3 or 4 years ,then was turned to hurdling and then the steeples and was racing when 12 yr old !

Then there was Brew....won MC ...Berri may remember.....was tried a couple more preparations , one after a year off. Didnt fire ,but was then sent out to work as a police  horse ,to earn a living !

A friend of a friend told me that !

who would share in decision making by way of democratic vote

you gotta be joking TM ..the vast majority of MB's 'owners' would have NEVER had a say about where, when, or in what company she races. They'd have just sat back ad enjoyed the ride and/or turned up to the races to see it unfold. Yes, there's a hit of Greed about the final campaign, esp if her feet are not right, but she is a fighter and on the right day could possibly win her finale.
I am one who thinks she has cried 'enough' and she should have been retired after that fabulous win over Avantage at Ellerslie in March/ IMO she'll sell for much more than $2M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, weasel57 said:

who would share in decision making by way of democratic vote

you gotta be joking TM ..the vast majority of MB's 'owners' would have NEVER had a say about where, when, or in what company she races. They'd have just sat back ad enjoyed the ride and/or turned up to the races to see it unfold. Yes, there's a hit of Greed about the final campaign, esp if her feet are not right, but she is a fighter and on the right day could possibly win her finale.
I am one who thinks she has cried 'enough' and she should have been retired after that fabulous win over Avantage at Ellerslie in March/ IMO she'll sell for much more than $2M

Is there much in her breeding to boost the price , she was quite cheap as a yearling , half sister and mother both bled then retired . Could a potential buyer think hold back on price as not a steller pedigree and these top racemares produce a lot of duds . Her half brother Tutukata huge debut  Hastings ,  flew out to OZ couple days back . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, barryb said:

Probably fair to just admit you are wrong TM, instead of making yourself look a bit of a wanker.

Wrong about what big barry........the info on site you sent seems different info from the site bimbo sent.

Try to be civil champ !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, weasel57 said:

who would share in decision making by way of democratic vote

you gotta be joking TM ..the vast majority of MB's 'owners' would have NEVER had a say about where, when, or in what company she races. They'd have just sat back ad enjoyed the ride and/or turned up to the races to see it unfold. Yes, there's a hit of Greed about the final campaign, esp if her feet are not right, but she is a fighter and on the right day could possibly win her finale.
I am one who thinks she has cried 'enough' and she should have been retired after that fabulous win over Avantage at Ellerslie in March/ IMO she'll sell for much more than $2M

No not joking weasel......big syndicates often vote on the big decisions........in this case the decision re retirement , and where and how the horse will be sold would be subject to a discussion with what is a democratic decision.

Sure the Manager would normally give a recommendation , or give options which syndicate members can ultimately decide on..

A manager who owns a small % cannot just make the big decisions without majority support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Red Rum said:

Is there much in her breeding to boost the price , she was quite cheap as a yearling , half sister and mother both bled then retired . Could a potential buyer think hold back on price as not a steller pedigree and these top racemares produce a lot of duds . Her half brother Tutukata huge debut  Hastings ,  flew out to OZ couple days back . 

well if Princess Coup fetched $3.8M in 2009 with a career record of 12 wins from 33 (4 x Grp 1s when our richest Grp 1 was worth $2M)  and Stakes of NZ $4.2M ..
Melody Belle 12 years later roughly the same total stakes but 14 Grp 1s ..

As for what mark Melody Belle could reach, Bowditch did not want to put a ceiling on her price.

“I don’t think a mare like her has ever been offered at auction before, and definitely not in this part of the world, who has won as many Group 1s as she has,” Bowditch said.

“Everyone will have a figure in their head as to what a mare like her is worth, but mares of this quality are collector’s items. If you own her, no one else is going to own a mare who has won 14 Group 1s anywhere else in the world who they have been able to purchase at auction.

“When she enters the ring, she will get attention from all over the world, and deservedly so, and the sky’s the limit for a mare of Melody Belle’s stature, physique and pedigree.”

Bred by Marie Leicester, Melody Belle was purchased from the 2016 New Zealand Bloodstock National Yearling Sale by Te Akau’s David Ellis for Galvin for NZ$57,500. She is one of two winners (from three foals to race) from Iffraaj (Zafonic) mare Meleka Belle, a half-sister to four stakes-placed horses, Tsarina Belle (Stravinsky), Desert Rain (Honor Grades), Kiwinsky (Stravinsky) and Housemaster (Housebuster).

She won the Karaka Million (RL, 1200m), the Manawatu Sires’ Produce Stakes (Gr 1, 1400m) and the BRC Sires’ Produce Stakes (Gr 2, 1400m) in Queensland during her two-year-old season. She has raced every year since and won the 2019 Empire Rose Stakes (Gr 1, 1600m) at Flemington to reinforce her talent in Australia to complement her dominance in her home country. Overall, she has won 19 of her 38 starts.

“One of the real keys to her success is her soundness,” Galvin said.

“She’s never had an issue physically and that has seen her continue racing at the highest level as a two, three, four, five and now six-year-old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, tasman man said:

No not joking weasel......big syndicates often vote on the big decisions........in this case the decision re retirement , and where and how the horse will be sold would be subject to a discussion with what is a democratic decision.

Sure the Manager would normally give a recommendation , or give options which syndicate members can ultimately decide on..

A manager who owns a small % cannot just make the big decisions without majority support.

Can't say if some NZ 'Syndicates' work like that or not. i.e (A Democratic Vote that is only likely to cause division and upset)

I currently race a 1/20th share thoroughbred , and usually 20 shares is a very common rate amongst the Australian horse syndicates (as you get your name in the racebook still)

I shopped around before the $3,500 share purchase, and ALL the prospectus were the same in regard to the Syndicate racing manager 'Makes All decisions ' on where the horse starts and who rides it , and spelling, etc. Imagine the total CHAOS with 20 different opinions ??  would be silly. Never been asked to vote on anything ever.

I would think MOST reputable manager's of the syndicate , earn enough from the many horses , they have NO NEED to take a share , and compromise the unbiased career of horse, and possibly upset it's shareholders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Pure Steel said:

Can't say if some NZ 'Syndicates' work like that or not. i.e (A Democratic Vote that is only likely to cause division and upset)

I currently race a 1/20th share thoroughbred , and usually 20 shares is a very common rate amongst the Australian horse syndicates (as you get your name in the racebook still)

I shopped around before the $3,500 share purchase, and ALL the prospectus were the same in regard to the Syndicate racing manager 'Makes All decisions ' on where the horse starts and who rides it , and spelling, etc. Imagine the total CHAOS with 20 different opinions ??  would be silly. Never been asked to vote on anything ever.

I would think MOST reputable manager's of the syndicate , earn enough from the many horses , they have NO NEED to take a share , and compromise the unbiased career of horse, and possibly upset it's shareholders.

Well PS if the horse is a good one ....you can expect a bit of chaos among your syndicate or ownership group.

I tend to comment on here from my experiences on issues.

I have been in well over 20 syndicates ,in all shapes and sizes with horse numbers often being more than 1 x horse...2 ,3, 4 ,10 a few times and once we had about 15 were trading many racing a few and registered as a LAQC entity which has ceased now. A few raced  and/or were based in Australia where the Syndicate rules are much the same as NZ.

Yes ,the syndicate manager is responsible for the ongoing day to day management of the horse and the finances and communication.....members sign a form agreeing to give the Manager authority to sign on behalf of the group.The manager has a lot of responsibilities to the group and racing authorities. The manager is often the Syndicator but not always .The Syndicator , who may advertise to the public must be Authorised  as official , pay a fee with his/her application and satisfy the Rules of Racing and the Financial Markets Act conduct etc.

I took a peek at the Racing Victoria rules which syndicates observe.......much the same as NZ.Syndicators often put their own rules /adaptations but the basics are fairly universal.

Managers will find the need to call a meeting/vote to decide on stuff and need to give 14 days notice ,have an agenda etc and do required  business which usually involves the program ,finances and future of the horse.

In my syndicates ,the manager or their family has nearly always owned a share.....most from the start then possibly later if folk withdraw or disappear. A number of syndicators have confided in me the trials and tribulations of being a syndicator and there are challenges.

Over the years I have taken part in many voting issues ,particularly when to retire a horse ,sell a horse ,consider an offer ....at least 5 x times the $$ amounts were very significant. Once a horse had  real residual value at stud and I was one of three members asked to assist the Manager in putting together options to sell.I sought the advice of an Independent stud owner..

Another time members wanted a change of trainer of a Group 2 winner....votes were cast ,and my vote became the casting vote...I retained the status quo.

But on another occasion ,members called a vote and the horse changed stables. Votes also arise if a horse needs expensive surgery/rehab. Once ,a horse went in the tendon, I voted to retire it and lost the vote 19 to 1. 2 years and $50k later the horse ran a couple of 5ths and was retired.

They just some of the examples.

I hope you have some turbulent times in your syndicate ,cos it will mean you have a horse with talent.

The slugs are easy ,but it will still need a vote to dispose of it cos some get attached.

And Managers need to be good too.....even your Aussie rules state a 51% vote can remove them !

Happy syndicates !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, tasman man said:

Well PS if the horse is a good one ....you can expect a bit of chaos among your syndicate or ownership group.

I tend to comment on here from my experiences on issues.

I have been in well over 20 syndicates ,in all shapes and sizes with horse numbers often being more than 1 x horse...2 ,3, 4 ,10 a few times and once we had about 15 were trading many racing a few and registered as a LAQC entity which has ceased now. A few raced  and/or were based in Australia where the Syndicate rules are much the same as NZ.

Yes ,the syndicate manager is responsible for the ongoing day to day management of the horse and the finances and communication.....members sign a form agreeing to give the Manager authority to sign on behalf of the group.The manager has a lot of responsibilities to the group and racing authorities. The manager is often the Syndicator but not always .The Syndicator , who may advertise to the public must be Authorised  as official , pay a fee with his/her application and satisfy the Rules of Racing and the Financial Markets Act conduct etc.

I took a peek at the Racing Victoria rules which syndicates observe.......much the same as NZ.Syndicators often put their own rules /adaptations but the basics are fairly universal.

Managers will find the need to call a meeting/vote to decide on stuff and need to give 14 days notice ,have an agenda etc and do required  business which usually involves the program ,finances and future of the horse.

In my syndicates ,the manager or their family has nearly always owned a share.....most from the start then possibly later if folk withdraw or disappear. A number of syndicators have confided in me the trials and tribulations of being a syndicator and there are challenges.

Over the years I have taken part in many voting issues ,particularly when to retire a horse ,sell a horse ,consider an offer ....at least 5 x times the $$ amounts were very significant. Once a horse had  real residual value at stud and I was one of three members asked to assist the Manager in putting together options to sell.I sought the advice of an Independent stud owner..

Another time members wanted a change of trainer of a Group 2 winner....votes were cast ,and my vote became the casting vote...I retained the status quo.

But on another occasion ,members called a vote and the horse changed stables. Votes also arise if a horse needs expensive surgery/rehab. Once ,a horse went in the tendon, I voted to retire it and lost the vote 19 to 1. 2 years and $50k later the horse ran a couple of 5ths and was retired.

They just some of the examples.

I hope you have some turbulent times in your syndicate ,cos it will mean you have a horse with talent.

The slugs are easy ,but it will still need a vote to dispose of it cos some get attached.

And Managers need to be good too.....even your Aussie rules state a 51% vote can remove them !

Happy syndicates !

Thanks for the info, very helpful on some points and am sure many people may learn something from your experience.

Had a feeling some sort of  vote/ consultation would happen , when came the time to breed or sell to breed. the 20 person one has been great with all the raceday privilige things one might expect. a e-mail every second day , a video once a week, well in front on stake-money , as horse has won at Flemington already, so all good, met a few other shareholders at the 'photo' winners stall. a very interesting experience , when you have a financial / enjoyment commitment in the exact same thing as strangers!!!!. none seemed experienced like yourself. I guess that type of syndicate would not attract the High Roller owners, who would have their own regular 'partners'.

No problems so far, as these managers and syndicators are so thoroughly professional , and know all the dots to join, and t's to cross, to keep everyone happy. (so far)

Years ago raced Pacers and went from groups of 4 (definitely no strangers, you know everyone well in the small harness racing world) , so just racing them myself, as was part of the fun taking them to various tracks , what trainer to put one with if you didn't do it yourself ,  who was driving at various times. quite good in Australia , as you only had to go around in ten official horse trials at one stage , to get checked off by stewards and you got a 'country' driving licence. so got one for a couple of mates quite easily (a metal worker and a baker from my wedding party at the time) and they went round a few times at the country tracks , with some slow horses and we all had a blast. The baker was a good driver and won a few races the welder, well , can't remember him winning at all actually , but sure enjoyed immensely having a crack at it. there's Nothing Like Hands-On Involvement  !!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's all right....send her round again....don't worry about the shortened action at the back of the field....she'll be right....12 lengths from the winner isn't that bad....she'll be right....she's getting sold...

Greed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Berri said:

It's all right....send her round again....don't worry about the shortened action at the back of the field....she'll be right....12 lengths from the winner isn't that bad....she'll be right....she's getting sold...

Greed

agreed!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melody Belle has been an outstanding , talented  and  tough racehorse however on her veey best day with everything going for her , even in those circumstances I cannot see that she would have got anywhere near Zaaki yesterday , excuses for SD coughing and Mugatoo lame I have read , maybe Avilius too far back again , not enough give , excuses excuses but Zaaki double brained them , shut the gate , donkey kicked them yesterday .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.