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We're Doomed

Lucky Timaru

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I see the new season's dates are out and Canterbury country racing has been decimated as expected.

 The movement of meetings to synthetic tracks will relieve pressure on turf tracks that would otherwise be used in winter,” Saundry said.

Timaru must be relieved: how they have managed to survive for 130 years racing through the winter months without mishap must be a miracle, especially when they see the criticism directed at the Riccarton track up the road. Exactly what the track will be used for now that that the "pressure has been relieved" I am unsure.

Seven AWT meetings at Riccarton through May, June, July; two grass meetings at the same track; one Waimate meeting at Timaru and one meeting at Ashburton.

If a horse doesn't like the AWT there is virtually nothing for it all winter. And obviously no plan to have any jumps races. 

Some horses will get the shock of their lives when they go from three months racing on the AWT and suddenly have to race on the Riccarton bog in August.

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what a farce.

no plan to have any jumps races ????

you are dead set kidding !!

AWT racing LMAO, so if Tasman Man reckons jumps racing doesnt draw crowds or turnover what do you reckon will happen with winter racing on "dirt"

you kiwis  collectively are going to end up wth the arse end of a pineapple if this keeps going.

i've never seen something deteriorate like NZ racing other than Zelda Kratchanova's figure ( don't forget she was Miss Vladivostok 1972)

 

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2 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

I see the new season's dates are out and Canterbury country racing has been decimated as expected.

 The movement of meetings to synthetic tracks will relieve pressure on turf tracks that would otherwise be used in winter,” Saundry said.

Timaru must be relieved: how they have managed to survive for 130 years racing through the winter months without mishap must be a miracle, especially when they see the criticism directed at the Riccarton track up the road. Exactly what the track will be used for now that that the "pressure has been relieved" I am unsure.

Seven AWT meetings at Riccarton through May, June, July; two grass meetings at the same track; one Waimate meeting at Timaru and one meeting at Ashburton.

If a horse doesn't like the AWT there is virtually nothing for it all winter. And obviously no plan to have any jumps races. 

Some horses will get the shock of their lives when they go from three months racing on the AWT and suddenly have to race on the Riccarton bog in August.

One thing I would say about AWT , in UK the vast majority of horses have same rating between the tracks   , it's not dirt . The figures are on BHA website . . That's why the US trainers got the arse , the results on the main track at Breeders Cup vastly improved for Euros  during the time Santa Anita had pro ride .instead of good old dirt .Meydan went back to dirt to some degree to appease the yanks .

That being said , iam no fan of our tax dollars put into racings  begging bowl but will brave the cold and stand by the derelict stand at Riccarton to watch the odd meeting on course but I don't mind AW racing at all, just personnel likes I suppose .

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54 minutes ago, pogo(aus) said:

what a farce.

no plan to have any jumps races ????

you are dead set kidding !!

AWT racing LMAO, so if Tasman Man reckons jumps racing doesnt draw crowds or turnover what do you reckon will happen with winter racing on "dirt"

you kiwis  collectively are going to end up wth the arse end of a pineapple if this keeps going.

i've never seen something deteriorate like NZ racing other than Zelda Kratchanova's figure ( don't forget she was Miss Vladivostok 1972)

 

Unfortunately we have one of Australias best at deteriorating assisting us in our demise, the guy hasn't got a clue!

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50 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

One thing I would say about AWT , in UK the vast majority of horses have same rating between the tracks   , it's not dirt . The figures are on BHA website . . That's why the US trainers got the arse , the results on the main track at Breeders Cup vastly improved for Euros  during the time Santa Anita had pro ride .instead of good old dirt .Meydan went back to dirt to some degree to appease the yanks .

That being said , iam no fan of our tax dollars put into racings  begging bowl but will brave the cold and stand by the derelict stand at Riccarton to watch the odd meeting on course but I don't mind AW racing at all, just personnel likes I suppose .

Seems weird that a club that can't even afford to demolish its condemned public grandstand, and has a much maligned turf track, suddenly has a $15m AWT that is largely intended as a way to facilitate the closing down most other Canterbury tracks.

The net result of all of this is that SI racing won't be better off in any way. I presume the theory is that AWT tracking will be so successful and popular with the punters that they will be able to race for minimum stakes of $20,000+ on the AWT. 

Winston's previous contribution to racing was 15 $1m+ races. That had no lasting benefit considering the money wasted. Lets hope this one goes better.

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3 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Seems weird that a club that can't even afford to demolish its condemned public grandstand, and has a much maligned turf track, suddenly has a $15m AWT that is largely intended as a way to facilitate the closing down most other Canterbury tracks.

The net result of all of this is that SI racing won't be better off in any way. I presume the theory is that AWT tracking will be so successful and popular with the punters that they will be able to race for minimum stakes of $20,000+ on the AWT. 

Winston's previous contribution to racing was 15 $1m+ races. That had no lasting benefit considering the money wasted. Lets hope this one goes better.

Tend to agree on economics and that stand . It must be sorted soon, it's been years . Surely it must get to a point it's dangerous to keep up unless they paying to get  maintenance and sign offs regularly .  The thing is look at the crap that appears to kick up on turf track at Riccarton at times compared to what appears a lovely surface at Cambridge Poly . 

One rainy Cup week will stuff them big style , one day in  rain for lady in expensive frock with no shelter  normally enough for them to say don't ever take me there again . 

I will happily punt on the AW once it's going though but my two Bob won't help them .

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5 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Seems weird that a club that can't even afford to demolish its condemned public grandstand, and has a much maligned turf track, suddenly has a $15m AWT that is largely intended as a way to facilitate the closing down most other Canterbury tracks.

The net result of all of this is that SI racing won't be better off in any way. I presume the theory is that AWT tracking will be so successful and popular with the punters that they will be able to race for minimum stakes of $20,000+ on the AWT. 

Winston's previous contribution to racing was 15 $1m+ races. That had no lasting benefit considering the money wasted. Lets hope this one goes better.

How can it?

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6 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Seems weird that a club that can't even afford to demolish its condemned public grandstand, and has a much maligned turf track, suddenly has a $15m AWT that is largely intended as a way to facilitate the closing down most other Canterbury tracks.

The net result of all of this is that SI racing won't be better off in any way. I presume the theory is that AWT tracking will be so successful and popular with the punters that they will be able to race for minimum stakes of $20,000+ on the AWT. 

Winston's previous contribution to racing was 15 $1m+ races. That had no lasting benefit considering the money wasted. Lets hope this one goes better.

Weird indeed. Could really have done with the grandstand being  included with the track. Just a side note on the dismantling-I was told in 2017 the estimate for dismantling the public grandstand at Trentham was over 1 million back then...would be more now. Expensive business it seems, tearing stuff down. 

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On 5/1/2021 at 11:00 AM, We're Doomed said:

I see the new season's dates are out and Canterbury country racing has been decimated as expected.

 The movement of meetings to synthetic tracks will relieve pressure on turf tracks that would otherwise be used in winter,” Saundry said.

Timaru must be relieved: how they have managed to survive for 130 years racing through the winter months without mishap must be a miracle, especially when they see the criticism directed at the Riccarton track up the road. Exactly what the track will be used for now that that the "pressure has been relieved" I am unsure.

Seven AWT meetings at Riccarton through May, June, July; two grass meetings at the same track; one Waimate meeting at Timaru and one meeting at Ashburton.

If a horse doesn't like the AWT there is virtually nothing for it all winter. And obviously no plan to have any jumps races. 

Some horses will get the shock of their lives when they go from three months racing on the AWT and suddenly have to race on the Riccarton bog in August.

The biggest negative here with racing all at Riccarton mostly is the impact on southern trainers,maybe the odd meeting scheduled through winter might help,either that or just pack up for the winter.

Timarus biggest concern is the drop off in racedays, fair enough i guess but if they think running 3 days is not profitable would running 6 be any different? 

It is true that South Canterbury though is the driest place just about in the country,yet only Waimates day in winter kinda odd really.

With Cambridge starting soon,and running fortnightly they are still maintaining a balance, i guess only time will tell,sometimes change is good sometimes not.

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13 minutes ago, TurnyTom said:

So it seems all the eggs placed on CJC AWT, thats a big gamble I would have thoughy

In recent times field sizes have been very average numbers wise what happens if half the owners who don't want to race on AWT don't?

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58 minutes ago, mikenz said:

In recent times field sizes have been very average numbers wise what happens if half the owners who don't want to race on AWT don't?

Plenty of horses down there Mike. Just poor programming leads to small fields. Many horses eliminated today and lots of ballots. 6 ballots in the rating 65 f/m 1,200m; only one got a start, another 4 or 5 eliminated. 5 ballots in the maiden 1,600m, two got a start. No opportunities for the eliminated horses for weeks.

This meeting won't exist next year. It will be a mid-weeker at Riccarton. I hope someone counts the crowd numbers so they can compare a Sunday in Timaru with a Wednesday at Riccarton. The only thing we can say for certain at this time is that there will be more people in the public stand today than next year at Riccarton.

As Bernie would say "at least we are relieving a lot of pressure on the Timaru track". Yeah Right! $15m well spent to help out poor old Timaru and their track pressure.

I wonder if Kenny Rae will send Major Tom down next year to race on the AWT? I wonder if Kevin Myers is already planning a massive attack on the SI AWT meetings next year?

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26 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

Plenty of horses down there Mike. Just poor programming leads to small fields. Many horses eliminated today and lots of ballots. 6 ballots in the rating 65 f/m 1,200m; only one got a start, another 4 or 5 eliminated. 5 ballots in the maiden 1,600m, two got a start. No opportunities for the eliminated horses for weeks.

This meeting won't exist next year. It will be a mid-weeker at Riccarton. I hope someone counts the crowd numbers so they can compare a Sunday in Timaru with a Wednesday at Riccarton. The only thing we can say for certain at this time is that there will be more people in the public stand today than next year at Riccarton.

As Bernie would say "at least we are relieving a lot of pressure on the Timaru track". Yeah Right! $15m well spent to help out poor old Timaru and their track pressure.

I wonder if Kenny Rae will send Major Tom down next year to race on the AWT? I wonder if Kevin Myers is already planning a massive attack on the SI AWT meetings next year?

My gut feeling WD is they don't want crowds , especially midweek . According to head of trainers association UK some courses happier not paying for workers to service meagre crowds midweek at lower tracks and quite happy with pay outs from  off course and media.  I suspect no crowd racing on a Wednesday is fine by Riccarton sadly .

 

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3 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

My gut feeling WD is they don't want crowds , especially midweek . According to head of trainers association UK some courses happier not paying for workers to service meagre crowds midweek at lower tracks and quite happy with pay outs from  off course and media.  I suspect no crowd racing on a Wednesday is fine by Riccarton sadly .

 

Very true; but also very short sighted. I know I got my introduction to racing by going to the races. Betting off course was purely an extension of that. Getting crowds of young people along to the races once a year for a piss up on cup day at riccarton and trentham is not going to sustain racing long term, and isn't going to introduce new people to the game.

As you said above Red Rum, one wet Cup Week and Riccarton is stuffed. They have been incredibly lucky so far to survive with no public facilities on big days. The pubic won't be appeased by telling them to sit on the $15m white elephant.

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20 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Plenty of horses down there Mike. Just poor programming leads to small fields. Many horses eliminated today and lots of ballots. 6 ballots in the rating 65 f/m 1,200m; only one got a start, another 4 or 5 eliminated. 5 ballots in the maiden 1,600m, two got a start. No opportunities for the eliminated horses for weeks.

This meeting won't exist next year. It will be a mid-weeker at Riccarton. I hope someone counts the crowd numbers so they can compare a Sunday in Timaru with a Wednesday at Riccarton. The only thing we can say for certain at this time is that there will be more people in the public stand today than next year at Riccarton.

As Bernie would say "at least we are relieving a lot of pressure on the Timaru track". Yeah Right! $15m well spent to help out poor old Timaru and their track pressure.

I wonder if Kenny Rae will send Major Tom down next year to race on the AWT? I wonder if Kevin Myers is already planning a massive attack on the SI AWT meetings next year?

This meeting will still go ahead,but I note it's been changed around with Wingatui who raced Thursday,

Timaru is the only club  affected by Riccarton,but the effect on southern trainers is probably underestimated.

I also note in the dates for next season that Hawkes Bay race Dec 31.not Jan 1.we all discussed this day in great detail,one wonders if the powers that be might be taking notes

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20 hours ago, Red Rum said:

My gut feeling WD is they don't want crowds , especially midweek . According to head of trainers association UK some courses happier not paying for workers to service meagre crowds midweek at lower tracks and quite happy with pay outs from  off course and media.  I suspect no crowd racing on a Wednesday is fine by Riccarton sadly .

 

They dont know what they want and they dont know how to get it!

It wasnt long ago that many of the smaller provincial club facilities werent good enough(excuse) to race at, especially for owners but now you can race without them all together, its a farce there is no plan ,no strategy,no leadership or direction,no communication(cause there is no plan) they just make it up as they go along ,with a little bit of input from the chosen few in the industry and thats why it'll likely end up like eveything else in the nz industry, only this time getting it right very much matters on whether the industry actually survives it or not!

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1 hour ago, Huey said:

They dont know what they want and they dont know how to get it!

It wasnt long ago that many of the smaller provincial club facilities werent good enough(excuse) to race at, especially for owners but now you can race without them all together, its a farce there is no plan ,no strategy,no leadership or direction,no communication(cause there is no plan) they just make it up as they go along ,with a little bit of input from the chosen few in the industry and thats why it'll likely end up like eveything else in the nz industry, only this time getting it right very much matters on whether the industry actually survives it or not!

I have seen Riccarton's biggest trainer say elsewhere that he won't have horses racing on the AWT, but it will be great for training. So I have no idea where the horses will be coming from. You get the impression they have backed themselves into a $15m corner and will now be doing anything possible to justify this massive waste of money.

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This thread has attracted the perennial negaholics who either ignore or distort the facts to suit their own dubious opinions or personal bias.

Assuming NZTR follows on from HRNZ and releases a Social Media policy/Code of Conduct ,then you will have to take your constant moaning elsewhere !

Have you sad lot read the Messara report......the independent and detailed look at NZ from an experienced racing participant/businessperson.

Soon after he completed his report ,which was by no means perfect , NZ racing for various reasons continued to decline and became insolvent and could not pay its bills.

The JM report confirmed what many had been saying for 50 years re NZ racing.....things had to change including closing some courses so efforts and funding could go into improving the ones that would take the Industry into the future.

Courses such as Waikouaiti and Washdyke and others have missed the cut , while 'main' courses eg Riccarton are seen as worth upgrading.

The Messara report covers all the various factors and reasons why the hard decisions need to be made.

So retaining the status quo not an option.......I enjoyed days out at Waikouaiti and Washdyke but they now surplus to requirements.

Read the Annual reports of many clubs and they make for depressing reading , the days of Volunteers and offsite Mgt gone !

Not every club can race on Saturdays and plum date around Xmas !

Some of the support for the 'Washdykes' is very dubious.....

eg..Washdyke has nice weather and a very good track .....YES generally it does but in the year before the JM report 2 x meetings had been rescheduled cos the track was waterlogged plus the plum Xmas date was affected by poor weather.

eg...Washdyke gets a good on-course crowd....check the betting numbers...Average < $40 k average [3xmeetings] , < $22k average [7 meetings] < $25k [7 meetings], <$23k [ 8 meetings].............these numbers are quite dismal and offcourse figures pretty average too ,and their mainly Friday dates not the worst.

Yes, 3 x meetings in winter months because of Asset of good track and Jumpers status......this attracted several Northern trainers who often also support other jumps courses at Riverton , Wingatui and Riccarton. These include Myers , Thurlow, SCameron , Duncan and others.Jumping in South Island has declined  further so 3 x tracks seem plenty.

eg...Washdyke on Sunday had ballots in maiden races and one r65 race......still had a 7 , an 8 and 2x 9 horse fields ......below average.

Riccarton's appeal is obvious with the number of horses trained in catchment a huge factor. The government gave the AWT monies deemed necessary for training and reducing the washed out meetings which prior to JM report were seen as major issues.

AWT not seen as magic bullet ,so not pushed as that.

Forget the past era.....looking at future Riccarton seen as part of that , others not !

Move on and create , don't cry and manufacture BS logic to support your local bias.....cant make the small bigger by making the big smaller !

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