Some serious questions need to be asked here....

[Ohokaman 5,824]

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/report-to-confirm-tragic-top-raider-anthony-van-dyck-showed-signs-of-lameness-before-cups-runs-20210427

[Ohokaman 5,824]

They haven’t mucked around either.....

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/melbourne-cup-deaths-report-findings-revealed-20210428

[scooby3051 10,863]

Best thing they could have done...its been tragic to see so many injuries in the past few years.

[Leggy 4,076]

Yes. Good move. Something had to happen.

[Shad 1,554]

Be careful what you wish for, may reveal more than one thinks, and where will they draw the line, as far as lead up races go, may as well hand training over to officials, this a very interesting call, and they may struggle to full a race field, if it works, that great, as none of us like to witness any of those horrific events, weather it's a Melbourne Cup or a maiden in timbuktu, at the end of the day they have to be seen to be doing the right thing.

[Red Rum 1,833]

1 hour ago, Shad said:

Be careful what you wish for, may reveal more than one thinks, and where will they draw the line, as far as lead up races go, may as well hand training over to officials, this a very interesting call, and they may struggle to full a race field, if it works, that great, as none of us like to witness any of those horrific events, weather it's a Melbourne Cup or a maiden in timbuktu, at the end of the day they have to be seen to be doing the right thing.

I reckon these rules need applying across the board , every racehorse in OZ and NZ scanned completely pre race from Flemington to Bonnie Doon Downs  and if lame cannot race for a set period even if passed sound by qualified vet . All Horses should be restricted to the same amount of races , no back ups allowed . Maybe two races max a month . Then let's see how racing is at then down here  . 

[stodge 1,938]

I've no problem with much of what is being recommended. Enhancements to horse welfare are nearly always to be welcome.

I do wonder if some European horses find some of the Australian turf much firmer than anything they encounter on the well-watered European tracks. I note the thought the Melbourne Cup should only ever be run on Good 4 or slower - that's akin to what they did for the National this year - they watered to produce ground on the slow side of good. Had they not done so, it would have been good to firm if not firm ground. 

I can't equate Good to Firm turf up here with a Good 3 in Australia - I don't know how watering happens or whether it prevents any jar.

I don't support the idea European runner should only be allowed one prep run - that seems to suggest a belief European horses can't stand too much racing and while the training methods are very different, I'm not convinced.

To be cynical, I hope all this isn't some misguided response to the European 1-2-3 in last year's race. If you want to deter the Europeans, cut the prize money in half - otherwise accept you have a global race which will attract global interest. 

[scoobysnacks 386]

Without the second-rate Europeans, the Melbourne Cup would be nothing more than a Saturday handicap.

I saw a two-win stayer in France last night that would likely towel up Australia's best.

[Shad 1,554]

11 hours ago, Red Rum said:

I reckon these rules need applying across the board , every racehorse in OZ and NZ scanned completely pre race from Flemington to Bonnie Doon Downs  and if lame cannot race for a set period even if passed sound by qualified vet . All Horses should be restricted to the same amount of races , no back ups allowed . Maybe two races max a month . Then let's see how racing is at then down here  . 

I think if all were scanned we would struggle to fill fields, in a numbers game I wonder how many would be classed as sound, it's where they draw the line I guess, but I think alot of horses will go through there career  unscathed, but the underlying fact is they may not be sound when scanned, how often to sales of good horses fall through because of a failed vet check, and there has been many a story of horses failing these checks, and a few have turned top horses to the delight of their owners who couldn't sell , given if every horse was scanned, I would say at a guess many will fail, and not even make the races, the tidy performers that trainers describe as a say to day proposition, wouldn't even exist.

[mikenz 1,088]

Does anybody actually think that some of these horses in the Melbourne Cup simply are pushed too hard?

Some have not even had 10 starts in their lifetime,probably never raced over a mile and a half,it's a bit like putting a club rugby player in a test match,they are asking too much.

 

[Red Rum 1,833]

1 hour ago, mikenz said:

Does anybody actually think that some of these horses in the Melbourne Cup simply are pushed too hard?

Some have not even had 10 starts in their lifetime,probably never raced over a mile and a half,it's a bit like putting a club rugby player in a test match,they are asking too much.

 

Condition of entry is win over 2400 I believe it is , probably in a decent class too but would need to check . These Euro horses don't want for miles on clock, they go first up fit enough for trip most time , look at Stadivarius last night at Ascot . As for the club rugby analogy , Cross Counter and Rekindling both had less or not many more than ten starts and kicked the home team up the arse to be fair, Tiger Moth almost got home last year , I'll Paradiso a moral beaten , so how's that club rugby v test match . 

These are the rules now , the Euros and Japan raiders will adapt and keep winning simply because the stayers are a number of classes above OZ and NZ stayers in general, bar the odd out the box star .

As for rules , if I was anti racing I would be squeezing the lemon harder now , real hard , why treat an animal different from Flemington to Mount Isa , they are  all  living creatures , value don't come into it when it comes to morals .

[mikenz 1,088]

51 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Condition of entry is win over 2400 I believe it is , probably in a decent class too but would need to check . These Euro horses don't want for miles on clock, they go first up fit enough for trip most time , look at Stadivarius last night at Ascot . As for the club rugby analogy , Cross Counter and Rekindling both had less or not many more than ten starts and kicked the home team up the arse to be fair, Tiger Moth almost got home last year , I'll Paradiso a moral beaten , so how's that club rugby v test match . 

These are the rules now , the Euros and Japan raiders will adapt and keep winning simply because the stayers are a number of classes above OZ and NZ stayers in general, bar the odd out the box star .

As for rules , if I was anti racing I would be squeezing the lemon harder now , real hard , why treat an animal different from Flemington to Mount Isa , they are  all  living creatures , value don't come into it when it comes to morals .

I guess there are no set rules,what works for one dont work for another,that's life

[Red Rum 1,833]

1 minute ago, mikenz said:

I guess there are no set rules,what works for one dont work for another,that's life

Cliffsofmoher 16 runs 

Red Cadeaux 54 runs 

Anthony Van Dyck 19 Runs 

Verema 13 runs .

So 10 runs not the panacea , the more they run the more they will pick up nicks and knocks I'd have thought too so damned if they run damned if they don't.  I heard John Gosden say ramming a stayer half fit through 1200 first up in his opinion not that great for them , the results the OZ trainers have got in Cup suggests he's probably right . 

I hope they don't zero in on Slipper wastage , ramming the two years old to get them in for big race .  A look at the massive  entries and later career of one's that don't make it tells the tale .

[Red Rum 1,833]

4 hours ago, Shad said:

I think if all were scanned we would struggle to fill fields, in a numbers game I wonder how many would be classed as sound, it's where they draw the line I guess, but I think alot of horses will go through there career  unscathed, but the underlying fact is they may not be sound when scanned, how often to sales of good horses fall through because of a failed vet check, and there has been many a story of horses failing these checks, and a few have turned top horses to the delight of their owners who couldn't sell , given if every horse was scanned, I would say at a guess many will fail, and not even make the races, the tidy performers that trainers describe as a say to day proposition, wouldn't even exist.

They will never allocate the same resources to a horse in dust bowl downs to what they doing here , in that they are hypocrites,  it's all about image and money and that is now going to be the big  truck they have driven into a narrow cul de sac they won't be able to reverse out in years to come when quizzed about OZ wide welfare  . Two horses got destroyed in past 10 months due to dodgems by win at all costs jocks at Randwick , are they putting in double yellow no crossing lanes down Randwick straight .

[Ohokaman 5,824]

Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Some think getting the Europeans down here will now be harder, and potential Aussie buyers might be put off, while another school of thought is that they might go looking for untried/unproven stock like 3 yesr olds a bit sooner.

The BHA have not decided what they would do with horses rejected in Australia for any reason...will they have the same rules applied to them in the UK or will they be allowed to race there..??  Owners and Trainers will want that answer before making any decisions you would think.

[Red Rum 1,833]

26 minutes ago, Ohokaman said:

Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Some think getting the Europeans down here will now be harder, and potential Aussie buyers might be put off, while another school of thought is that they might go looking for untried/unproven stock like 3 yesr olds a bit sooner.

The BHA have not decided what they would do with horses rejected in Australia for any reason...will they have the same rules applied to them in the UK or will they be allowed to race there..??  Owners and Trainers will want that answer before making any decisions you would think.

IspolinI Charlie Appleby's runner that was kicked out with Marmelo in 2019 has ran 5 times since, twice in UK , three times Dubai ,  the last a decent run at Meydan in Feb without incident . Still on 110 only 7 lbs off Twilight Payment and 4 lbs off Prince of Aaron so clearly not much up with him . 

Cross off all the imports and international that Cup would be awful quality , would be embarrassing really for a world renowned race IMHO.