virtual1 2 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 Is the gap wider between the better aussie horses and ours, we have struggled to compete or does Covid and the rider changes have to much impact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 Quick Thinker did ok. The only one who was probably disappointing was Aegon, but he is still fairly inexperienced. Nobody would really have expected any of the others to do much. Our Derby form isn't flash, and you would hardly have expected the likes of Charles Road and Concert Hall to show up. d.burrow - Joan and Black Kirrama 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtual1 2 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 23 minutes ago, We're Doomed said: Quick Thinker did ok. The only one who was probably disappointing was Aegon, but he is still fairly inexperienced. Nobody would really have expected any of the others to do much. Our Derby form isn't flash, and you would hardly have expected the likes of Charles Road and Concert Hall to show up. Totally agree with you, only thing is it not just been today, but most over the last month or so have struggled Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 742 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 50 minutes ago, virtual1 said: Is the gap wider between the better aussie horses and ours, we have struggled to compete or does Covid and the rider changes have to much impact. A bit early on the trigger there. I just watched Matchmaker take a Group 3 at Randwick ....with James Mac and CWaller involved it felt good to be a Kiwi. Matchmaker raced in NZ up to November and still NZ owned. Then the Derby was a NZ bred trifecta...the winners dam by Ekraar [ Extra Explosive ] won a listed NZ race at Foxton] among its 3 x wins when trained by Andrew Scott. I note NZTR already has an article up praising NZ breeding and the Karaka sales. Then there was Quick Thinker as mentioned and he beat Rondinella who I seemed to remember racing out of Roger James' stable so assume she too a Kiwi with Chitty's as owners. I was here in my cave today sheltering from the storm thinking what a very good day it was to be a Kiwi on a Group 1 day . Gruff, Pegasus 9 and d.burrow - Joan 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz (NZ) 1,719 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 Maybe we should stop selling and exporting our horses then? (NZ) horses are doing just fine thanks! Race 2 - 12:10PM FUJITSU GENERAL CARBINE CLUB STAKES [GROUP 3] (1600 METRES) 2nd THE IRISHMAN (NZ) 4th HIGH SUPREMACY (NZ) Race 3 - 12:45PM NEWHAVEN PARK COUNTRY CHAMPIONSHIPS FINAL (1400 METRES) 3rd CHARMMEBABY (NZ) Race 4 - 1:20PM TAB ADRIAN KNOX STAKES [GROUP 3] (2000 METRES) 2nd BARGAIN (NZ) 5th SIGNORA NERA (NZ) Race 5 - 1:55PM SCHWEPPES CHAIRMAN'S QUALITY [GROUP 2] (2600 METRES) 2nd RONDINELLA (NZ) 5th FEEL THE RUSH (NZ) Race 7 - 3:15PM BENTLEY AUSTRALIAN DERBY [GROUP 1] (2400 METRES) 1st EXPLOSIVE JACK (NZ) 2nd YOUNG WERTHER (NZ) 3rd LION’S ROAR (NZ) Race 9 - 4:35PM THE STAR DONCASTER MILE [GROUP 1] (1600 METRES) 2nd ICEBATH (NZ) Race 10 - 5:10PM CHINA HORSE CLUB P J BELL STAKES [GROUP 3] (1200 METRES) 1st MATCHMAKER (NZ) Pegasus 9, 47South, Gruff and 4 others 4 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 742 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said: Maybe we should stop selling and exporting our horses then? (NZ) horses are doing just fine thanks! Race 2 - 12:10PM FUJITSU GENERAL CARBINE CLUB STAKES [GROUP 3] (1600 METRES) 2nd THE IRISHMAN (NZ) 4th HIGH SUPREMACY (NZ) Race 3 - 12:45PM NEWHAVEN PARK COUNTRY CHAMPIONSHIPS FINAL (1400 METRES) 3rd CHARMMEBABY (NZ) Race 4 - 1:20PM TAB ADRIAN KNOX STAKES [GROUP 3] (2000 METRES) 2nd BARGAIN (NZ) 5th SIGNORA NERA (NZ) Race 5 - 1:55PM SCHWEPPES CHAIRMAN'S QUALITY [GROUP 2] (2600 METRES) 2nd RONDINELLA (NZ) 5th FEEL THE RUSH (NZ) Race 7 - 3:15PM BENTLEY AUSTRALIAN DERBY [GROUP 1] (2400 METRES) 1st EXPLOSIVE JACK (NZ) 2nd YOUNG WERTHER (NZ) 3rd LION’S ROAR (NZ) Race 9 - 4:35PM THE STAR DONCASTER MILE [GROUP 1] (1600 METRES) 2nd ICEBATH (NZ) Race 10 - 5:10PM CHINA HORSE CLUB P J BELL STAKES [GROUP 3] (1200 METRES) 1st MATCHMAKER (NZ) Love your work Baz[ NZ ] I remember Lion's Roar dam Minnaleo winning a few races as she was a daughter of The Mighty Lions who won the Avondale Cup and 4th in the Auckland Cup. The latter was raced by a Group of enthusiasts from the Mt Albert Lions Rugby League club....a few of them were also part of Xcellent and won handsomely from a multi bet TML in Avondale Cup into Xcellent in NZ Derby. JJ Flash, Baz (NZ) and Gruff 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Bukowski 408 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 Concert Hall was a car crash just waiting to happen , can't believe they took her over ... I know , easier to say after the event but I did say before the event it was madness taking her over JTeaz 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Clydesdale 229 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Charlie Bukowski said: Concert Hall was a car crash just waiting to happen , can't believe they took her over ... I know , easier to say after the event but I did say before the event it was madness taking her over Pretty dumb really Charlie, the ground undid her as you could see in the running. Same as Rocket Spade. Boss stands up on her at the 200m and should be ashamed......yet he asks why he doesn’t get better rides in Sydney. She is a very good mare, and if the track had been closer to firm, the performance would have been substantially better. The winner and place getters enjoyed a wet shifty track, that is what prevailed today. Look at the race times, on the most part they tell the story. Doncaster, won by a lightweight, in 1.36 ?? Cheers John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Bukowski 408 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 Sorry John , beg to differ, just not the race for her , let alone the Sydney Cup Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy86 2,681 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 Concert Hall NZ stats--3 starts on Slow tracks for 2 wins and a second. Hardly the form of a duffer in such conditions. To my mind more likely poor performance reasons found elsewhere--interrupted preparation, first trip to Oz and she is a mare! (I've had a few) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckenzie 600 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 Depends on the horse. Probabeel is one of the top 1400-1600m horses in Australia atm. Lots of ex-kiwi ones trained in Aussie do well. Unfortunately the cream of our crop is always going to be sent over there, the likes of Verry Elleegant who are then recognized as Australian horses by the media. Our locally trained ones also have to travel over there and that is a disadvantage for them. Pam Robson and We're Doomed 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, mckenzie said: Depends on the horse. Probabeel is one of the top 1400-1600m horses in Australia atm. Lots of ex-kiwi ones trained in Aussie do well. Unfortunately the cream of our crop is always going to be sent over there, the likes of Verry Elleegant who are then recognized as Australian horses by the media. Our locally trained ones also have to travel over there and that is a disadvantage for them. Very good points. I think the good horses like Verry Elegant and Probabeel who head over there and stay there and get lots of tough racing there do well. We are seeing that with Defibrillate as well. It is the horses who come out of a Group 1 at Otaki and head to a tough race at Caulfield, where they go hard the whole way, who must think "bloody hell what's this?" The same must apply to Melody Belle who rarely has to tough it out in NZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted April 10, 2021 Kiwi breds had a good day overall, pom and Irish breds dominated in Doncaster , if the second tier milers can do that its going to more imports at the shorter trips .4 out top 6 out of 4 runners i tnink in total . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted April 11, 2021 Have you ever thought that our Kiwi trainers and training facilities might not be as good as we have been? 5-7% of horses racing in Aussie are NZ horses. So not a bad hit rate but not trained by NZ trainers. Breeder 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustyngrizzly 1,682 Report post Posted April 11, 2021 No expert that is for sure but something i have noticed is that a lot of kiwi trainers turn their horses out after the tank is emptied as opposed to the Aussies who turn them out with a bit of juice still left in them. ADM, Dissident and Baz (NZ) 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckenzie 600 Report post Posted April 11, 2021 2 hours ago, We're Doomed said: Very good points. I think the good horses like Verry Elegant and Probabeel who head over there and stay there and get lots of tough racing there do well. We are seeing that with Defibrillate as well. It is the horses who come out of a Group 1 at Otaki and head to a tough race at Caulfield, where they go hard the whole way, who must think "bloody hell what's this?" The same must apply to Melody Belle who rarely has to tough it out in NZ. Yeah also seems to depend on the horse. The Bostonian managed to win three sprinting G1's over there. Meanwhile Savvy Coup who was one of the top horses here couldn't keep up in the mares races over there. Some can do it over there and others struggle. Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz (NZ) 1,719 Report post Posted April 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, mckenzie said: Yeah also seems to depend on the horse. The Bostonian managed to win three sprinting G1's over there. Meanwhile Savvy Coup who was one of the top horses here couldn't keep up in the mares races over there. Some can do it over there and others struggle. Exactly...it comes down to the individual horse. Some adapt and settle in Australia...others don't. Example Sir Slick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 599 Report post Posted April 11, 2021 I am in Aussie at the moment and on their racing channels there are quite a few "nostalgia" programs replaying the good races of the 70s, 80s & 90s. A lot of Kiwi trained horses in them doing very well, so I think Berri has a point, above with his comment on NZ trainers and their methods. Many good horsemen but are they up to date on training methods and the technology available? The stats tell us that our breeders are still turning out the good horses , the RtR sales graduates continue to turn out good horses (so the breakers and early educators are doing a good job) so I think it leaves the training methods (as opposed to the people involved). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,536 Report post Posted April 11, 2021 35 minutes ago, Breeder said: 35 minutes ago, Breeder said: The stats tell us that our breeders are still turning out the good horses , the RtR sales graduates continue to turn out good horses (so the breakers and early educators are doing a good job) so I think it leaves the training methods (as opposed to the people involved). Add the trial winners and those showing up in their early races, to those sold from sales, and the quality is well and truly plundered, don't you think? We're Doomed, Baz (NZ) and Breeder 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
weasel57 429 Report post Posted April 11, 2021 22 hours ago, John Clydesdale said: Pretty dumb really Charlie, the ground undid her as you could see in the running. Same as Rocket Spade. Boss stands up on her at the 200m and should be ashamed......yet he asks why he doesn’t get better rides in Sydney. She is a very good mare, and if the track had been closer to firm, the performance would have been substantially better. The winner and place getters enjoyed a wet shifty track, that is what prevailed today. Look at the race times, on the most part they tell the story. Doncaster, won by a lightweight, in 1.36 ?? Cheers John seem to recall Darren Flindell referring to her as the 'noted wet tracker Concert Hall' Wasnt up to it on the day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...