Value Bell

Forbury Park. 1971.

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1 hour ago, Value Bell said:

Horse No. 1 was owned by George Barton, the butcher in Dunedin. Was Forenoon a mare raced by Clem Scott?  

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Thats a very sharp memory VB...CC Scott [Makikhi] of Moccasins ,Le Chant and Stylish Major fame....the latter two both top trotters who won over 20 races each and often formed a lethal bracket......certainly bred from the Mare Forenoon.

I had forgot that ,but Forenoon still on HRNZ website !

The owners were George Barton Jnr and Reg Barton the sons of 'leviathan' racehorse owner and Dunedin Butcher GJ [George] Barton.

George snr was a prolific owner and influence in NZ racing.

As a butcher he was big in Dunedin his prominent shop having Neon signs including the moving neon pigs !

He was dominant as a Harness owner ,particularly Indianapolis who won 3 x NZ Cups. Often George would win 3 or 4 wins in a day and his brackets would often dominate.

Maybe he was the earliest ALLSTAR , soon to be followed by other Australians JD Litten and CC Devine.

George did get into trouble with officials at one stage for 'not trying'.

However he remained prominent and helped the push to get the lights at Forbury Park !

This raises another question........did Forbury get the lights because of demand/results , there appeared to be few horses trained in the area ..........or did they get them cos a couple of prominent business folk.....GBarton and Gentleman Jim Barnes [later Mayor] take the initiative ????

I digress !

GB Barton also was prominent in gallops......his best horse was Ark Royal who ran well in NZ classics and big races ,winning the Wellington Cup.He also raced well in Australia in big races placing in several and deadheating for win in Hotham Hcp.

Two of my favourite horses were Desert Chief and Astra who ran well in Southern handicaps......in the dark blue colours with light blue sash and armband !

He had a private trainer DG[Snow or Doug] O'Neil for the latter two.Previous it was Ashley Powell and Jim Pankhurst Snr...other great Wingatui/Southern names !

Snow trained many of his horses like Marlow and GeeJay. Often Bob Skelton rode for him then latter RN Marsh [Rodney ,a good jockey who got kicked in head , curtailing his career].

An earlier post mentioned the main race......GJ Barton Memorial ....a prominent race for many years !

AS another topic....it sad to think how Dunedin racing has ended up where it is now.

Gotta think that BJ Anderton has kept the gallops going with his training and White Robe Stud.

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On 3/9/2021 at 8:30 AM, Dockers said:

So given this Chevy what was stopping every man woman and dog owing a horse ?. I mean a 2k first prize would have been a deposit on a house for a lower class Forbury win. Were horse flesh and training fees astronomical or something ? How much do you estimate training fees would have been a month?

Say it was $100 and first prize was 2k and now I'm guessing 2k and first prize would be 5k. 20 times your training fees for one win as opposed to 2.5 times now. Wow. What a state of disrepair the industry is in now. Must have been some very happy owners back in the 70s. 

 

To be a little fair,This is an open class race and probably equivalent to about 25k now but you are correct in that stakes have definitely not kept up with costs.It was harder to win a race back in the day with bigger fields and a lot less race meetings also and a lot more horses never even made it to the track.

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2 hours ago, micktap said:

To be a little fair,This is an open class race and probably equivalent to about 25k now but you are correct in that stakes have definitely not kept up with costs.It was harder to win a race back in the day with bigger fields and a lot less race meetings also and a lot more horses never even made it to the track.

If a house was 20k wouldnt it be equivalent to  a 100k race ?. I'm blown away by the stake money in relative terms. 

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One extraordinary comparison is the betting differences .......back then there were three options...Win / Place ? Doubles.

Often the doubles .especially before concessions came in ,would pay very good money indeed.Often over $100 to $600 [300 pounds]

Minimum doubles bet was 5 bob or 50 cents.

Minimum Win/Place was 10 bob, half pound or $1.a Best  Bets was 10 shillings [ $1]with little info.

My  elder sister started work about 1966 as an Office junior in a law firm and was paid 8 pounds  [$16 ] a week. 2 pounds for board and 2 pounds for transport [bus and train]. Newspaper was 3 pence , Cigarettes were 1/3 [13 cents] for 10 , and 2/6 [25 cents] for 20.Fish and chips you got 2 fish and chips for 10 cents .3 fish and chips for 15c. In 1970 milk was still 4 cents a pint , petrol 39 cents a gallon [ie over 4.5 litres]. A couple of dollars went a long way ! In 1960's to save a shilling a week in bank was admirable.A $5 bonus bond by 1970 was a handy saving.

Most people had very little extra money for saving etc..........if you played sport....eg cricket few had their own bat or pads ...schools or clubs provided them .Same with Rugby shirts and sox.

By 1975 a 22 yr old with Uni degree would earn $80 week [$4k per yr].....Suits and nice coat for Southern chill could be over $100 each.Cloths expensive ,made them last !No cheap imports.

Between 1965 and 1975 inflation probably kicked in.

A new Mini Clubman [1100cc] cost $4,400 in 1976.

Travel overseas was comparatively expensive.....most never did or even considered it !Ditto things like going skiing .Appliances like TV's were expensive. Toasters were fixed as were most appliances. Houses were cold, [no insulation] even in South Island many houses only had a heater /fire in one or two rooms.

Owning HORSES was rare.....it was for people with farms or those with history with horses in family or big business owners or Publicans or Lawyers.

It was not for Joe Bloggs and even club membership was a bit elite , even when gate admission the norm !

Syndicating not even thought of as it would be wishful thinking to find many with spare money and collecting it would be a nightmare.

Winning a big race  was quite a boost for many outside of the huge owners.....certainly went a long way to making a decent investment eg house

Many trainers did other jobs during the day ...eg work at woollen mill etc, night shifts etc

Only the guys with big owners were full time ...or the top trainers who were often family businesses .

The good old days !

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21 hours ago, tasman man said:

This raises another question........did Forbury get the lights because of demand/results , there appeared to be few horses trained in the area ..........or did they get them cos a couple of prominent business folk.....GBarton and Gentleman Jim Barnes [later Mayor] take the initiative ????

Wasn't  Viv Angow a contributor as well in that era. Had vehicle dealerships from memory?

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Great post TM and Value I must say a wonderful topic. I love hearing stories for the good ole days. I remember only as far back as collecting from the back of the tote and the massive crowds. Were tickets hand written and if so up to what year?. Thanks again. 

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1 hour ago, JJ Flash said:

Wasn't  Viv Angow a contributor as well in that era. Had vehicle dealerships from memory?

Viv Anngow definitely a Forbury Stalwart.

i re-read the George Barton history and he was one of 3 x long serving committeemen ,along with Jim Barnes and H May who OPPOSED the installing of lights.

What i didnt realise was that GB Barton got the 'pip' with racing and about 1963 sold all his racing stack......7 gallopers and 13 harness.

In earlier years he had been NZ's biggest harness owner....and often the most successful.

i remember his sons being involved in racing so obviously they never all bailed out together !

Maybe Dave McCarthy knows the full story ...but I guess there has always been controversies in NZ Racing and always will be !

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Wow....that was the first ever race meeting I attended...arrived Dunedin Jan'71....Festival week a few days later.....saw Bert Munro racing round the waterfront ...next day headed to Forbury...was like Disneyland with the bright lights and thousands in attendance......and to see my heroes of the day, Stella Frost and Robalan, I couldn't believe my eyes........JJ - subsequent meetings I could not believe my eyes - Eddie ?? Tai Ping Fish Shop / restraunts ( Rattray Street) was a regular at $10 payout window ( which was around the side, we sneaked round and peeped) - he had armfulls of notes......

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2 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

Wasn't  Viv Angow a contributor as well in that era. Had vehicle dealerships from memory?

Our unsuccessful start at Forbury

Forbury Park Trotting Club Inc

Sunday, 11 May 1997
Last updated 11/03/2021 at 10:46 am
Race 8 - ANNGOW MAZDA TROTTING CUP (Gr2), $20,000, M2 & FASTER DISCRETIONARY HANDICAP, 2700m

For trotters assessed at M2 and faster.

Weather:
Fine
Track:
Fast
SHOW STIPES
Participants for Race 8: ANNGOW MAZDA TROTTING CUP (Gr2)
Place Book Horse Barrier Hcap Stakes Fav Time Margin Driver Trainer
1 5 Fitzroy Thugs 5 fr 13,000.00 11/11 3-32.6   A J McPherson (J) Warren Stapleton
2 2 Goldon 2 fr 4,000.00 9/8 3-32.6   C J Barron Joy Millar
3 1 Justa Kiwi Girl 1 fr 2,000.00 10/10 3-32.8   B G Barclay (J) Des Horrell
4 8 Mister Fruffler U2 fr 1,000.00 3/4 3-32.8   K M Barron John Lischner
5 6 Roydon Whiz 6 fr 0.00 5/3     K D Townley Fred Fletcher
6 9 Syndication 1 10m 0.00 13/12     A D Milne Murray Tapper
7 12 Sidi Slicker U2 10m 0.00 7/5     M R DeFilippi Chris & Robin Thornley
8 3 Vinceabill 3 fr 0.00 12/13     J R Bond Howard Butson
9 7 Classical Whiz U1 fr 0.00 8/9     D A Cameron Dale Cameron
10 15 Diedre's Pride 1 45m 0.00 1/1     J C Hay Fred Fletcher
11 11 Frances Jay Bee U1 10m 0.00 6/6     P M Williamson Stu Campbell
12 10 Our One And Only 2 10m 0.00 2/2     R T May Simon Adlam
13 4 Dream Ahead 4 fr 0.00 14/14     L R Mathieson Fergus & Lester Mathieson
14 14 Chiola Reb U1 35m 0.00 4/7     C J DeFilippi Trevor Craddock
Total Stakes: $20,000.00  

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2 hours ago, Roger Sugrue said:

I couldn't believe my eyes........JJ - subsequent meetings I could not believe my eyes - Eddie ?? Tai Ping Fish Shop / restraunts ( Rattray Street) was a regular at $10 payout window

I'm hearing you, there was also a  South Dunedin Green grocer in the mix 😉

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20 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

I'm hearing you, there was also a  South Dunedin Green grocer in the mix 😉

Mr Foon with the gold teeth a prominent owner with DG Jones stable.

I think owned Disband...possibly Dispense and Leading Light.

Disband ..3rd in Interdom Final  !

Edited by tasman man
Foon

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12 hours ago, eljay said:

Our unsuccessful start at Forbury

Forbury Park Trotting Club Inc

Sunday, 11 May 1997
Last updated 11/03/2021 at 10:46 am
Race 8 - ANNGOW MAZDA TROTTING CUP (Gr2), $20,000, M2 & FASTER DISCRETIONARY HANDICAP, 2700m

For trotters assessed at M2 and faster.

Weather:
Fine
Track:
Fast
SHOW STIPES
Participants for Race 8: ANNGOW MAZDA TROTTING CUP (Gr2)
Place Book Horse Barrier Hcap Stakes Fav Time Margin Driver Trainer
1 5 Fitzroy Thugs 5 fr 13,000.00 11/11 3-32.6   A J McPherson (J) Warren Stapleton
2 2 Goldon 2 fr 4,000.00 9/8 3-32.6   C J Barron Joy Millar
3 1 Justa Kiwi Girl 1 fr 2,000.00 10/10 3-32.8   B G Barclay (J) Des Horrell
4 8 Mister Fruffler U2 fr 1,000.00 3/4 3-32.8   K M Barron John Lischner
5 6 Roydon Whiz 6 fr 0.00 5/3     K D Townley Fred Fletcher
6 9 Syndication 1 10m 0.00 13/12     A D Milne Murray Tapper
7 12 Sidi Slicker U2 10m 0.00 7/5     M R DeFilippi Chris & Robin Thornley
8 3 Vinceabill 3 fr 0.00 12/13     J R Bond Howard Butson
9 7 Classical Whiz U1 fr 0.00 8/9     D A Cameron Dale Cameron
10 15 Diedre's Pride 1 45m 0.00 1/1     J C Hay Fred Fletcher
11 11 Frances Jay Bee U1 10m 0.00 6/6     P M Williamson Stu Campbell
12 10 Our One And Only 2 10m 0.00 2/2     R T May Simon Adlam
13 4 Dream Ahead 4 fr 0.00 14/14     L R Mathieson Fergus & Lester Mathieson
14 14 Chiola Reb U1 35m 0.00 4/7     C J DeFilippi Trevor Craddock
Total Stakes: $20,000.00  

 Gee whiz Lloyd , horses need to be acclimatised to the Dunedin water.

Its lead these days but back then it was the flouridation which tripped many visitors up.

Stakes were pretty good back in 1997 !

No wonder you could go on tour with your horse 

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We won at Ascot Park over 3200 the week before TM.     Luckily it was Race 1 - we spent the rest of the day inside (in the Pressies Bar!)      And boy, was it cold there, mind you Forbury wasn't much better.      But the big trip made the horse!       Stayed at Dunedin with Ali Malcolmson if my memory on target.

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On 3/4/2021 at 3:31 PM, eljay said:

I not sure - but I think someone did.     While on this subject - I see Yrdgren is Chairman of Stipes at Auckland.    Surely after they said they didnt want Inter Island travel they wont send him up?            

 

17 hours ago, b kelly said:

lot of good trainers then,Ali Malcolmson,Ivan and Kevin Court,Ray Wilkie,Ian Latimer,Danny Cummings etc

Considering the Forbury Park facility and the lights for night racing the book........Great harness achievers of Otago......would not be a huge publication !

Horse wise......Meadowbank and The Fiery Ginga would feature and plenty of good ones owned and bred in area......Tuapeka and Tapanui area [is this considered Otago] still feature in breeding and going back 50 years plus there would be several prominent performers from what is a big province.

George Barton a top owner and NZ Cup winner Invicta owned by Dunedins Les Duff. But modern times ?

Today Krug has  some Dunedin owners with P Creighton also owning some recent All Stars stars.

Ali Malcolmson had a long career with some good horses and others have been mention above'

Len Tilson was South Otago [Stella Frost]  , and Central  Otagohad some good horses with Hamiltons ,Harleys and Roxburgh stables done well in recent years.Balgrove was a good horse out of Lawrence.

JLishner got launched in Tapanui [ I think] while Waikouaiti and Palmerston had some good horses too ......Dannymite ,Idolmite ,Willymite and currently getting winners I see. Prominent names over the years Tisdaile and O'Donnells and Alcocks .

Of course North Otago has current champions the Williamsons and back 50-70 years Frank Oliver had Cup horses.......Admire ,Kawarau Gold etc , Ray Beale [Game Lad],Hores [Master Alan]And IS Sutherland had a host of good trotters from Duntroon......Waipounamu,Waitaki Gamble ,Screws Loose.

Not so many big trainers in Dunedin area though Alan Clark , Ken Robertson ,Stu Campbell had some good performers from nearby Brighton. The St Kilda butcher George Mills had a useful type Sir Echo,while in Mosgiel the provincial performer Forest Grattan used to be jogged around the streets for fitness.

I'm sure I've missed plenty of good performers from what is big province but the above is a taste of Otago harness.

In view of how big the gallops were at Wingatui up to 1980's and the facility at Forbury Park probably a surprise the Industry hasn't thrived there !

Kinda staggering in fact !

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On 3/8/2021 at 7:34 PM, Value Bell said:

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Some quality in that line up VB. Chequer Board was a favourite of mine, Dave Jessop ended up training it up here out at Tangiteroria way. Stella Frost a class mare and good old Manaroa...strange looking thing that would invariably give them a start...hell of a motor once he got going and no doubt would have won plenty more with better manners.

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1 hour ago, tasman man said:

I'm sure I've missed plenty of good performers from what is big province but the above is a taste of Otago harness.

Pat Heffernan was another i remember albeit that his best horse  was in the late 70's Enterprise. Usually driven by PD Shand he won 23 times in 100 starts but alas not the time i had a large bet on him.

It was a 3yrd old race at  Waikouaiti and he was unbeaten at that stage. The back marker he swung around as the tapes were released and went the other way. I was in the poor house for a few weeks!!

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3 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

Pat Heffernan was another i remember albeit that his best horse  was in the late 70's Enterprise. Usually driven by PD Shand he won 23 times in 100 starts but alas not the time i had a large bet on him.

It was a 3yrd old race at  Waikouaiti and he was unbeaten at that stage. The back marker he swung around as the tapes were released and went the other way. I was in the poor house for a few weeks!!

Yes , the Heffernan name slipped my fading memory.

As to Enterprise....I aware he a top liner....his race career 1981 - 1986 was the exact time I was away from NZ racing .......was it jail ,abstainence or living overseas ?

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