tasman man 742 Report post Posted February 24, 2021 27 minutes ago, Huey said: Well there is one thing you and I can agree on. But shouldn't the extra races that are put on be self funding , after all they are mostly only $10k races , surely there is something wrong if we can't fund the $10k through betting on the race or as part of the meeting? They say even a broken clock is correct twice every day ! Meetings should be self funding but maybe not always......certainly abandoned meetings incur costs which translate to loss for at least the TAB which means less distribution to clubs too. Some races do attract pitiful betting......jumps races , maiden trots , early races etc Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted February 24, 2021 44 minutes ago, tasman man said: This is a separate issue..... 1. Should there be an 'appearance' stake for all runners ......this reduces stake to winner and placed horses. 2. Should monies not paid out because of less starters be held back or paid out to starters. I actually favour the current system of most starters getting a stake......Australia and Singapore do it so must have some merit. Possibly keeps field size higher which helps betting figures . Betting pays for stakes.Singapore dont pay to horse finishing last ! I did a quick check of Avondale Cup payout last weekend compared to 2011 and 2008.Stake gone nowhere !....$100k Last week Robusto got $54k for first , $ 17.5k for second etc.5th to 14th got $1500...4 missed out 2011 winner got $60k ,then $19.5 .......5th got $2.5k then 6th to 13th got $1k.....7 missed out 2008 winner got $62 k , then $20k....5th got $2.5k then rest missed out As to NZTR loving the savings from small fields ....surely it is these funds that enable them to put on extra races when the nominations demand it ! There one week ,gone the next. If my horse wins a race with a $7k winning purse , I dont expect it to become $7.3k cos it was a small field ! JMO To put the prize money in perspective I've still got a bill receipt from a Riccarton trainer for 1200 per month all in in 2000 and he got wins and places out of it so no mug trainer at all . Now 3k plus Riccarton .The two graph lines really went the wrong way in 21 years . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, shaneMcAlister said: i would like to see no noms/acceptance/entry fees for maidens and r65s and just pay first 3! Interesting the things that stick in your mind. I can clearly remember the Christchurch Hunt Club trialing only paying back to 3rd once. I can recall the Brabazon and a horse called Capital either won the race or more likely finished 4th and was the horse who missed out on the usual 4th place stake, late 70s probably. Just a bit of reminiscing there, back to the subject now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper 115 Report post Posted February 24, 2021 What poor fields for Group One meeting at Otaki. Entry cost is $20. A bit steep for a meeting like this. Those are big city entry prices not country meetings. When will some of these clubs learn. Gruff, Huey, Baz (NZ) and 1 other 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingshill 230 Report post Posted February 24, 2021 5 hours ago, mikenz said: I see Otaki has a maiden race,only 12 in that,last night I noticed only 5 noms for open handicap yet 7 I think in the field,do they shift the odd one over from another race,does anybody know? Maybe one was canned. Nominations were left open till 9am this morning..... Hence time for more horses to be entered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted February 26, 2021 Four horses going around in the open sprint; not a good look. Probably doesn't help having another CD feature meeting next Wednesday. Surely there is not enough room for both. Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted February 27, 2021 Actually, two CD meetings in three days next week, and three meetings in 8 days from next Wednesday; 4 meetings in 11 days from Wednesday; 5 meetings in 15 days. All for the same pool of horses. And some people try to convince us NZ Racing is being well run. Huey, dock leaf and Pam Robson 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Sugrue 190 Report post Posted February 28, 2021 10 Meetings in 35 days ( 6 Feb - 13 March) at a time of the year of least horses in training many mid week Meetings deleted in Sept - Nov ( threads written about this) at a time when highest number of horses in training......and majority of novice horses beginning their careers stayed in their boxes and couldn't get a run Clearly a kneejerk at the time from NZTR dancing to McKenzie's tune....laughable We're Doomed, Huey and dock leaf 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted February 28, 2021 45 minutes ago, Roger Sugrue said: 10 Meetings in 35 days ( 6 Feb - 13 March) at a time of the year of least horses in training many mid week Meetings deleted in Sept - Nov ( threads written about this) at a time when highest number of horses in training......and majority of novice horses beginning their careers stayed in their boxes and couldn't get a run Clearly a kneejerk at the time from NZTR dancing to McKenzie's tune....laughable A couple of people on here often criticize me for being overly critical of NZTR, but I see no reason why gross incompetence shouldn't be pointed out. Lets hope this new management, "the best we have ever had", clean up some of the incompetents who are making so many bad decisons. Huey and dock leaf 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 742 Report post Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Roger Sugrue said: 10 Meetings in 35 days ( 6 Feb - 13 March) at a time of the year of least horses in training many mid week Meetings deleted in Sept - Nov ( threads written about this) at a time when highest number of horses in training......and majority of novice horses beginning their careers stayed in their boxes and couldn't get a run Clearly a kneejerk at the time from NZTR dancing to McKenzie's tune....laughable Interesting comment re least horses in training......it seems that trials since New year have had huge numbers especially Waikato. I read where Kevin Myers took some horses to Blenheim for a trials ,and of course he also supported the New year West Coast circuit. 10 meetings in 5 weeks seems reasonable...the suffering owners need the stakes ,ditto trainers and jockeys and industry folk who rely on racing for a living.Betting been OK. Can't help the odd small field if horses scratch or don't front up. Roger ,are you able to share with us the figures of horses in training at different times of year. Of course the Industry was broke following lockdown last year ....there was no money for stakes so NZTR were somewhat cautious with dates and number of racing. All the horses came back at once so horse numbers were huge......match that with the economy fears over how much would be bet [for stakes] and budgets were very conservative. Hence betting numbers have been well up on Budget ,and pleasingly generally above last year . Add a slight decrease in operating costs and Bottom line has improved. But some code expenses have gone back to the codes/clubs and Codes are apparently trying to build some reserves. In recent years more was paid to codes than was made and this shocking financial management and wasteful spending led to 'insolvency'. Those horse numbers in training would be interesting. With Easter approaching and cross over of seasons bound to be 10 meetings in 5 weeks again ....soon ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stodge 1,912 Report post Posted February 28, 2021 Up here, the fixture list of 1,486 UK meetings was confirmed last week but the number of Flat races will be down by 70 as it is expected there will be fewer horses in training this year as owners and breeders have cut back because of Covid. The impact will be felt, I suspect, in a couple of years as well. Just for information, of the 1,486 meetings, 40% are jumps, 40% are turf flat meetings and 20% are flat meetings on artificial surfaces. Pam Robson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 742 Report post Posted March 1, 2021 On 2/27/2021 at 12:24 PM, We're Doomed said: Four horses going around in the open sprint; not a good look. Probably doesn't help having another CD feature meeting next Wednesday. Surely there is not enough room for both. This certainly not ideal.......but happens from time to time , and certainly happens a hell of lot in Aussie racing,which is held in high regard. In this case[Otaki Open sprint] I believe there were 7 accepted to race ,the 3 x scratchings......too late then to make changes ! A friend recently got called before officialdom ...someone potted him for allegedly accepting with a horse not in work to ensure a race went ahead ! Not proven ! But often done around New Year at your much mentioned Waikouaiti !! 4 x horse fields have been around NZ racing since Day 1 ,and can we blame this on the incompetence of NZTR or any administrators. I note these very administrators since Covid have recovered pretty well with their programmes , their communication and just this week have moved nimbly to change racedays.......Saturday Derby day to later [maybe Sunday] ,Friday to Saturday etc etc as well as adding extra races which they have been doing regularly of late. Balancing the needs of horses available to race with $$$$ available for stakes and TAB staff and cameras etc to run the show ! And even if a decision was made to run a race if only 4 or 5 nominate is this a bad thing........who would be a VICTIM of such a decision ,apart from you We're Doomed. Firstly its not the norm....only occasional......and overall average horses per race have been acceptable for sometime and even seeing slight increases.After Covid it was feared some grades would be lacking in numbers so OPEN races were carded until the industry recalibrated. And most importantly the ever suffering owners got their stakes paid out...ditto the trainer and jockeys their percentages and others . Often it is the higher rated classes who have these small fields...why should they be penalised ? Group races go ahead whatever the size of field...in Spring a 5 x horse field at Alex Park in Group race attracted the most betting on card as there were 3 x top horses.Bolt for Brilliance and two South Island hotshots. So who suffers with the odd small field ? Programmers are not mind readers and cannot predict the weather , ailments , horse sales, horse transfers etc etc. Sometimes clubs/areas could work in better but as Messara claimed.....and I agree cos it stands out like dog balls and has for 50 years ,NZ still has too many tracks ,too much self interest and Conflicts of interest. Probably too many horses too to sustain betting when Aussie betting so freely attainable etc. You often rave on about maidens and r65 horses especially stayers ,especially in South Island struggling for starts...maybe some of these slugs are too slow to be racing....someone is telling you something. And guess what, it gets worse...I asked a Northern trainer about two horses and he said they about to race in South Island out of Southern stable next week at Wingatui...so thats two more horses for you to worry about.Plus one of my synd horses was recently sold from Matamata on Gavelhouse so assume it will resurface in South.So horses in South struggle for starts [according to WD] so connections transfer /send more horses South..duhhh What's that definition of insanity ? Cant blame this on administrators....they seem to be doing their best and making progress IMO ! drewandjo and mckenzie 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...