RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Varro

TAB - did you offer BGP excusive fixed odds bet, and offset extragent price against the tote punter

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NZ TAB  rules of betting 2020  . 

Rigging 12.8 (a) 

IF for example something like this did occur   , would it be covered by the above section ? .

Only quickly scanned through regs for section may cover incident like this  , but if someone had a closed private bet at inflated odds then hedged it against the public tote to cover the private bet in some degree  was the original price offered in the private closed bet  rigged ? . Something of this nature may be covered elsewhere but was just a quick scan through hundreds of pages .

 

 

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2 hours ago, Red Rum said:

They have a legislated monopoly here , if people go offshore that's there option but it's a monopoly . Like say a Volvo garage here selling cars as the only outlet for new Volvos by law , then I import one  but more hassle but better deal. The guts is they want me to punt here yet make a deal with one entity and scam it off against the tote pool that the rest country have only that option to bet into if they want a quinela in a million buck race .Therefore stuffing up the quinela bet in a million bucks race with eyes punting world on it . The tail is wagging the dog here . No disrespect to BGP their job to negotiate a good deal for their people but it's a bad look , IF this is the case , I'd love to know one way or another for .

To be clear laying off bets no problems , that's the game the guts here is I couldn't have a buck on that option if I wanted  , I was forced to go tote on that quinela if I wanted to bet and to stay loyal to NZ TAB and support NZ racing , then they topped them up and 25 buck voucher . OK alienate the rest of you clientele and stick with BGP , see how it goes .

Quite a drama it turning out to be.......if someone takes the TAB to court ,all of NZ will know about. it......ONE promotional offer for one bet type for one race.

Which leads me to my involvement ...maybe they will call me as a witness.........I took one ticket in this FUN event.....$105 paid ,knowing that whatever happened I would get some excitement and if I lost money I would be rubbished for gifting my money to such a shaky investment.

Certainly winds some people up.

Dunno how much I had on the quinella which paid a 'record' low $2.60 or was it $1.60.

But geez was it exciting.....the table I was at was bubbling all day ......of the eight I was the only one in on it ,tho the others wished they were.......two took the field for third in the trifecta.

It was the most fun you could have with your  all clothes on.

Now I've been betting from the handwritten  yellow ticket days when NO quinellas at all and it would be the FIRST quinella I have ever taken.

I think I'm hooked.

That 3 yr old Karaka race was in the previous season NZ's most turnover race.........the season prior 2018/19 ,this weeks Wellington Cup day was NZ's top meeting for turnover....one of my other best days of my life ! 

I hope everyone cheers up in time !

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5 hours ago, tasman man said:

I hope everyone cheers up in time !

Not much chance of that given others replies on this subject. Some on here post like its an end of life thing and  that they were possibly ripped off.  Racing has more pressing issues than this one off event so that's my last post on the matter

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it seems some of you are struggling to grasp that its imperative the tab shows integrity when dealing with punter funds.

and your excusing the action because it was a fun day, was a 1 off promo, its BGP, you were wearing red socks. 

extreme exaggeration that its end of life stuff, but you are someone who seems challenged at grasping things JJ.

it seems mind boggling that we can potentially excuse what is a rip off action to tote punters because you had a good day out, jesus fucking christ

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20 hours ago, Houlahan's Dream said:

I think you have a very fair point. 

I like exacta and duet betting. Exacta I think is finally coming to TAB. I had a bit of a lash at the exacta in the Aegon race....Paid $7.60 on 365. Good money, good return, not that hard to pick. 

Quinella betting in NZ often quite a hard picking exercise, for quite low returns. 

TAB is a bit of a wagering backwater, if we are honest. 

How the hell did that pay $7.60?????

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32 minutes ago, Eastwood Jaunty said:

How the hell did that pay $7.60?????

My bad, looking back through my account. 1.5 times dividend returned 7.8. 

So exacta must have been worth $5.20.  Not the greatest mathemetician. 

Certainly paid more than the exacta on NZ tote because....they don't offer that. Or Duet. 

 

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I've nothing against BGP , they bring in   fresh blood and enjoyment  .I've nothing against rebates , incentives or whatever everyone gets if they punt big and it's open to everyone .

 It's the possibilty that  a private bet  hedged against a public pool by the Statutory Betting Monopoly of NZ .thats not on . They have been bailed out by the workers tax  money so are accountable .

It would be great if Scooby can put this up as a late question to Dean Mackenzie to clear this up , it may prove to have not happened , if it did he has a duty imho to explain it to their loyal base .

 

 

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Interesting discussion. A bit more info which may be useful (or not)...

I looked at the favourite quinella will pays at 6.50pm on Saturday (just under an hour before the 3yo race) and saw it was paying $1.40. The pool in the quinella pool showed as just over $20,000 at that time.

At 7.26pm (just under 20 minutes prior to the race) the pool had $32,000 in it and the will pay was $1.30.

I was sending txts to a mate who was running our betting syndicate for the day as we were considering a sizeable quinella bet - hence having the level of detail above.

 

With quinellas generally I check the will pay before placing a bet - conceivably there was value here if the two favs didn't run 1-2 ?

 

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On 1/25/2021 at 12:29 PM, Varro said:

so i can only presume their take out would have been even higher.

So you dont know this be a fact- only TAB would know that and why would they want to change software re takeouts from 21% to some other higher number for one race??. I thought the following was more relevant re pools and this discussion

At 7.26pm (just under 20 minutes prior to the race) the pool had $32,000 in it and the will pay was $1.30.

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36 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

So you dont know this be a fact- only TAB would know that and why would they want to change software re takeouts from 21% to some other higher number for one race??. I thought the following was more relevant re pools and this discussion

At 7.26pm (just under 20 minutes prior to the race) the pool had $32,000 in it and the will pay was $1.30.

ive given up on trying to explain things to you. you could say lost cause.

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8 minutes ago, Varro said:

ive given up on trying to explain things to you. you could say lost cause.

Your trying to just enforce your idea's as facts when you and others have none. Did the TAB lay off BGP F?O - possibly but not definitely which is my point. If they did , i dont really care as  bookies world wide lay off bets. If your so offended by some perceived rip off then by all means  go elsewhere. If nothing else it will open up your eyes to global bookie trends

 

Did you actually bet on the Q in question and how much did you put on it. Then , explainThe pools identified by Chelsea above 

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If a bookie doesn’t/didnt lay he/she would be out of business pretty quickly. Laying off has been a practice for as long as bookmakers have been operating. It’s part of their “Risk minimising” strategy. It’s a prudent thing to do in any business.

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43 minutes ago, Trump said:

If a bookie doesn’t/didnt lay he/she would be out of business pretty quickly. Laying off has been a practice for as long as bookmakers have been operating. It’s part of their “Risk minimising” strategy. It’s a prudent thing to do in any business.

Thanks, we are in total agreement there. There are  a few out their in forum land who  are, after the event, aggrieved that BGP was given a 1 off promo offer , not available to other, that paid more than tote. Further, they all think that Bookies laid it off and/or took a higher % than usual 21%. In doing so they ripped off loyal customers. From what i have seen on previous posts many  are not big fans of TAB so that may have something to do with their stance.

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42 minutes ago, Trump said:

If a bookie doesn’t/didnt lay he/she would be out of business pretty quickly. Laying off has been a practice for as long as bookmakers have been operating. It’s part of their “Risk minimising” strategy. It’s a prudent thing to do in any business.

yes, but they dont lay onto the tote because an an exclusive offer to one group for the same bet.  The will pay before race is meaningless because of the fact that the pool size will change to close of race, and then ofcourse close to race time they are drip feeding the sum to the pool.  How else would you explain a quantum increase to the quinella pool versus other races but no significant change on win and place, logical no?

 e.g. taking a 10k quinella, and getting $1.70, but 1 exclusive group getting a near whole unit more.  Was there a change in take out on the pool to subsidize the offering to BGP as a result.  If infact the tab layed off that bet to the tote, then of course tote punters subsidized that return!

its about protecting all your customers, and showing integrity and transparency.  And normally the TAB would lay off bets via another operator not against their own tote

in scouring the market, there were returns available to punters elsewhere $2 and above via other competition.

yet the tab is spending marketing funds asking punters to remain loyal, bet with them.

I am all for BGP, they are great for the industry.  But dont tell me we should accept that its ok for tote punters to miss out on potentially a greater return without knowing the tabs actions, because BGP are great, its a 1 off promo, i was wearing their red socks.

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58 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

Your trying to just enforce your idea's as facts when you and others have none. Did the TAB lay off BGP F?O - possibly but not definitely which is my point. If they did , i dont really care as  bookies world wide lay off bets. If your so offended by some perceived rip off then by all means  go elsewhere. If nothing else it will open up your eyes to global bookie trends

 

Did you actually bet on the Q in question and how much did you put on it. Then , explainThe pools identified by Chelsea above 

JJ you are futher exposing yourself to being in some way challenged.  I have at length already explained to you this observation.  Additonally the will pay was meaningless because you dont know what the TAB were doing with tote prices, from when they accepted the BGP quinella bet, additionally the will pay price is quite meaningless when substantial funds are being added to the pool.

i am done dealing with you because it seems impossible to understand eachothers viewpoints so i move on

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can i add for clarity, most of my betting is done via the TAB, largely because i prefer to bet in store and am trying to be supportive because i know investing via the tab benefits our industry. as does any punter who invests through the tab

i have no issue with BGP nor do i take issue with promotions and incentives.

i just think that punters derserve better, because ultimately we need more punter funds invested via tab for the benefit of distributions to the codes.

and if i had a sizeable bet on that quinella and won, i would feel aggrieved if my funds were used to subsidize the return for someone else.  Especially considering in this day and age punters are more sophisticated and are far more value focused, given that competition out there you could say is largely more attractive. So given this, and their recent ad, i feel tote punters deserved better.

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1 hour ago, Trump said:

If a bookie doesn’t/didnt lay he/she would be out of business pretty quickly. Laying off has been a practice for as long as bookmakers have been operating. It’s part of their “Risk minimising” strategy. It’s a prudent thing to do in any business.

Firstly thanks to this piece of info's provider

"Two minutes before the jump,Quinella Pool was showing $57k and Willpay $1.30

Final Pool $96k Dividend $1.70

Did they Layoff!Who knows!!--"

So in last 2 minutes  the pool goes up by  39K and the will pay goes from 1.30 to 1.70. There can surely  only be one reason for that and surely  its not TAB laying off the BGP bet??

 

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On 1/26/2021 at 8:34 AM, Houlahan's Dream said:

Tangential to this topic, any idea when the exacta and fixed quinella bets are starting? I am hoping too much that it might be for Wellington Cup day?

Not any time soon given F/O Quinellas trial only started last weekend..  May have read early March but don't quote that as certain.

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23 hours ago, Red Rum said:

I've nothing against BGP , they bring in   fresh blood and enjoyment  .I've nothing against rebates , incentives or whatever everyone gets if they punt big and it's open to everyone .

 It's the possibilty that  a private bet  hedged against a public pool by the Statutory Betting Monopoly of NZ .thats not on . They have been bailed out by the workers tax  money so are accountable .

It would be great if Scooby can put this up as a late question to Dean Mackenzie to clear this up , it may prove to have not happened , if it did he has a duty imho to explain it to their loyal base .

 

 

Great post

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