coxpl8 21 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 At least 3 of the first 4 races at Counties have been sit and sprint! Look at how many horses in Race 4 were nearly clipping heels because the the front jockey/s were going too slow! It happens all the time and the Stipes need to do something about this - no way can they get away with this in Australia! Not only is it an accident waiting to happen but you can see why people don't want to bet in NZ as half the horses don't get a fair go!!!!!! Gruff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates 3,575 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 I was thinking exactly the same , becoming a bit of a rodeo , lost count of how many checks i seen in those first 4 races , some pretty decent , doesn't make for attractive and even racing . The one thing I will add is that 2 of the horses i seen get checks appeared to be because the rider didn't appear to know how close they were to the horses in front of them , suddenly looked up and bang , pretty average but then the standard in NZ is very average across the board at the best of times . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobysnacks 386 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 Was the first race at Flemington a sit and sprint? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlahan's Dream 535 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 my favourite is when they sit back, watch a dawdle unfold, then complain about the pace!!!! nomates, Baz (NZ) and coxpl8 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates 3,575 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, Houlahan's Dream said: my favourite is when they sit back, watch a dawdle unfold, then complain about the pace!!!! Or they sit back on a nothing pace then suddenly realize that they should have been trucking 300 mtrs earlier , another regular in NZ riders . Baz (NZ) and Pam Robson 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates 3,575 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, NextPlease said: Was the first race at Flemington a sit and sprint? Went 1.36.32 , hardly a sit and sprint . I haven't got a problem with sit and sprint races , it's the lack of nous about what's going on in front of them that is frustrating when it is . Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlahan's Dream 535 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 I would agree with that. Watch the top Aus jocks when they realise someone is out to steal it. The hustle, bustle and get busy to make sure their mounts are not flat footed, they put their horses in the race. How often have I watched a horse (ok, yes, with my $$$ attached!), flushed 8 wide and 10 off the lead at Ellerslie with 300 to go. Finishing well for fifth doesn't cut it. Baz (NZ), coxpl8 and nomates 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobysnacks 386 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, nomates said: Went 1.36.32 , hardly a sit and sprint . I haven't got a problem with sit and sprint races , it's the lack of nous about what's going on in front of them that is frustrating when it is . The first two kicked clear of the rest... certainly seemed like a sit and sprint, but they're superior to the chop running at Pukekohe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikenz 1,088 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 Simple reality is they could go around backwards,there will still be a winner and there will still be a loser,its just getting those results right that's the most frustrating bit. coxpl8 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 4 hours ago, NextPlease said: Was the first race at Flemington a sit and sprint? The first two home were the 2 best horses in the race. What’s the problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobysnacks 386 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 It was a sit and sprint. I had no problem with it, but people were acting like it happens only in NZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis2 1,078 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 Sit and don’t sprint is a worse scenario nomates 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stodge 1,940 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 It's a style of racing you see in Australia and France but you don't see to the same extent in the UK and Ireland or at all in the US where they jump and run. In the UK there's a variety of racing styles - sometimes it's like an old-fashioned dance, slow, slow, quick, quick, slow. Often the fastest run races are those where they don't go that strong early and quicken all the way to the line (not quite "sit and sprint" more like winding up the race gradually from a long way out and quickening all the way home). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,793 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 9 hours ago, Trump said: The first two home were the 2 best horses in the race. What’s the problem? Its not rocket science, we all know Jockeys are about as straight as a Z nail but can you blame them. If you have a highly competitive environment with the big money up you can guarantee competitiveness, otherwise you take your chances. If the pearly gates are a thing no jockey is getting throughand harmess drivers arent getting within 100 metres.. great sport and great fun but these people cheat hard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wood 1,576 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 Times at Counties are irrelevant, the timing there is always way quicker for some reason, always have been! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,076 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 27 minutes ago, Chris Wood said: Times at Counties are irrelevant, the timing there is always way quicker for some reason, always have been! Starting point distances suspicious? Times still relate to performances on other tracks imo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobysnacks 386 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 4 hours ago, stodge said: It's a style of racing you see in Australia and France but you don't see to the same extent in the UK and Ireland or at all in the US where they jump and run. In the UK there's a variety of racing styles - sometimes it's like an old-fashioned dance, slow, slow, quick, quick, slow. Often the fastest run races are those where they don't go that strong early and quicken all the way to the line (not quite "sit and sprint" more like winding up the race gradually from a long way out and quickening all the way home). Is that because half the field are pacemakers for the more fancied stablemates? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stodge 1,940 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 34 minutes ago, NextPlease said: Is that because half the field are pacemakers for the more fancied stablemates? I trust you're not suggesting this is the kind of practice we see for example in races with a number from the Aidan O'Brien stable? That would be contemptible, pathetic - worth a try Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47South 26 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 Adding to the problem is instructions from trainers. How often do you hear trainers tell the jockeys take a sit and start your run at the 600. All very well in a truly run "race" Horses are trained to stretch out and gallop not stop and start because most jockeys in particular apprentices are more focused on following instructions because if not ?? maybe they wont get many more rides from that trainer Our best jockeys read the race and ride accordingly . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,076 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, 47South said: Adding to the problem is instructions from trainers. How often do you hear trainers tell the jockeys take a sit and start your run at the 600. How often have you heard a trainer give such an instruction? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikenz 1,088 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, 47South said: Adding to the problem is instructions from trainers. How often do you hear trainers tell the jockeys take a sit and start your run at the 600. All very well in a truly run "race" Horses are trained to stretch out and gallop not stop and start because most jockeys in particular apprentices are more focused on following instructions because if not ?? maybe they wont get many more rides from that trainer Our best jockeys read the race and ride accordingly . It's a shame that the trainers dont ride,but gee how hard being a trainer,doing all the prep and then having someone on who dont do the job very well.probably happens everyday in every race,but re your comment regarding the best riders that's why they are the best,experience is the key. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,076 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 17 minutes ago, mikenz said: It's a shame that the trainers dont ride,but gee how hard being a trainer,doing all the prep and then having someone on who dont do the job very well.probably happens everyday in every race,but re your comment regarding the best riders that's why they are the best,experience is the key. I'd say skill and judgement is the key. Not experience. 47South 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlahan's Dream 535 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Gruff said: Its not rocket science, we all know Jockeys are about as straight as a Z nail but can you blame them. If you have a highly competitive environment with the big money up you can guarantee competitiveness, otherwise you take your chances. If the pearly gates are a thing no jockey is getting throughand harmess drivers arent getting within 100 metres.. great sport and great fun but these people cheat hard "....these people cheat hard....". Never a truer word. I backed Warning in the Turnball and CCup. Ran hard in the Turnball - just out of money. Seemed to position for a run in CC, then Jockey sticks to inside, gets held up, it opens up for him - just sits there. Finished 12th. Barely seemed to be extended. Bit of a pipe opener before the big dance (MCup)? Who knows. I suppose there are dozens of examples of that, with each big race day. As a punter that's why the big races are easier to bet in because you know they will all be trying 110%. I am not saying at all that being a good or top jockey is an easy trade. Far from it. But in terms of post race excuses 'we just got beat' is preferable to 'they didn't go fast enough!' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47South 26 Report post Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Leggy said: How often have you heard a trainer give such an instruction? Many times in the bird cage and plenty on trackside when trainers being interview ie we well sit back and run on, or we well take a sit off the pace blah blah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,076 Report post Posted November 1, 2020 2 hours ago, 47South said: Many times in the bird cage and plenty on trackside when trainers being interview ie we well sit back and run on, or we well take a sit off the pace blah blah You've heard trainers giving instructions to jockeys on Trackside? Pam Robson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...