Sick of the sit and sprint races in NZ!

[coxpl8 21]

At least 3 of the first 4 races at Counties have been sit and sprint!  Look at how many horses in Race 4 were nearly clipping heels because the the front jockey/s were going too slow!  It happens all the time and the Stipes need to do something about this - no way can they get away with this in Australia!  Not only is it an accident waiting to happen but you can see why people don't want to bet in NZ as half the horses don't get a fair go!!!!!!

[nomates 3,544]

I was thinking exactly the same , becoming a bit of a rodeo , lost count of how many checks i seen in those first 4 races , some pretty decent , doesn't make for attractive and even racing . The one thing I will add is that 2 of the horses i seen get checks appeared to be because the rider didn't appear to know how close they were to the horses in front of them , suddenly looked up and bang , pretty average but then the standard in NZ is very average across the board at the best of times .

[scoobysnacks 386]

Was the first race at Flemington a sit and sprint?

[Houlahan's Dream 533]

my favourite is when they sit back, watch a dawdle unfold, then complain about the pace!!!!

[nomates 3,544]

24 minutes ago, Houlahan's Dream said:

my favourite is when they sit back, watch a dawdle unfold, then complain about the pace!!!!

Or they sit back on a nothing pace then suddenly realize that they should have been trucking 300 mtrs earlier , another regular in NZ riders .

[nomates 3,544]

30 minutes ago, NextPlease said:

Was the first race at Flemington a sit and sprint?

Went 1.36.32 , hardly a sit and sprint . I haven't got a problem with sit and sprint races , it's the lack of nous about what's going on in front of them that is frustrating when it is . 

[Houlahan's Dream 533]

I would agree with that. Watch the top Aus jocks when they realise someone is out to steal it. The hustle, bustle and get busy to make sure their mounts are not flat footed, they put their horses in the race. How often have I watched a horse (ok, yes, with my $$$ attached!), flushed 8 wide and 10 off the lead at Ellerslie with 300 to go. Finishing well for fifth doesn't cut it. 

[scoobysnacks 386]

19 minutes ago, nomates said:

Went 1.36.32 , hardly a sit and sprint . I haven't got a problem with sit and sprint races , it's the lack of nous about what's going on in front of them that is frustrating when it is . 

The first two kicked clear of the rest... certainly seemed like a sit and sprint, but they're superior to the chop running at Pukekohe.

[mikenz 1,088]

Simple reality is they could go around backwards,there will still be a winner and there will still be a loser,its just getting those results right that's the most frustrating bit.

[Trump 2,741]

4 hours ago, NextPlease said:

Was the first race at Flemington a sit and sprint?

The first two home were the 2 best horses in the race. What’s the problem? 

[scoobysnacks 386]

It was a sit and sprint. I had no problem with it, but people were acting like it happens only in NZ.

[Memphis2 1,078]

Sit and don’t sprint is a worse scenario 

[stodge 1,937]

It's a style of racing you see in Australia and France but you don't see to the same extent in the UK and Ireland or at all in the US where they jump and run.

In the UK there's a variety of racing styles - sometimes it's like an old-fashioned dance, slow, slow, quick, quick, slow. Often the fastest run races are those where they don't go that strong early and quicken all the way to the line (not quite "sit and sprint" more like winding up the race gradually from a long way out and quickening all the way home).  

[Gruff 2,790]

9 hours ago, Trump said:

The first two home were the 2 best horses in the race. What’s the problem? 

Its not rocket science, we all know Jockeys are about as straight as a Z nail but can you blame them. If you have a highly competitive environment with the big money up you can guarantee competitiveness, otherwise you take your chances.  If the pearly gates are a thing no jockey is getting throughand harmess drivers arent getting within 100 metres.. great sport and great fun but these people cheat hard 

[Chris Wood 1,576]

Times at Counties are irrelevant, the timing there is always way quicker for some reason, always have been!

[Leggy 4,068]

27 minutes ago, Chris Wood said:

Times at Counties are irrelevant, the timing there is always way quicker for some reason, always have been!

Starting point distances suspicious? Times still relate to performances on other tracks imo.

[scoobysnacks 386]

4 hours ago, stodge said:

It's a style of racing you see in Australia and France but you don't see to the same extent in the UK and Ireland or at all in the US where they jump and run.

In the UK there's a variety of racing styles - sometimes it's like an old-fashioned dance, slow, slow, quick, quick, slow. Often the fastest run races are those where they don't go that strong early and quicken all the way to the line (not quite "sit and sprint" more like winding up the race gradually from a long way out and quickening all the way home).  

Is that because half the field are pacemakers for the more fancied stablemates?

[stodge 1,937]

34 minutes ago, NextPlease said:

Is that because half the field are pacemakers for the more fancied stablemates?

I trust you're not suggesting this is the kind of practice we see for example in races with a number from the Aidan O'Brien stable?

That would be contemptible, pathetic - worth a try

[47South 26]

Adding to the problem is instructions from trainers. How often do you hear trainers tell the jockeys take a sit and start your run at the 600. All very well  in a truly run "race" Horses are trained to stretch  out and gallop not stop and start because most jockeys in particular apprentices are more focused on following  instructions because if not ?? maybe they wont get many more rides from that trainer Our best jockeys read the race and ride accordingly .

[Leggy 4,068]

4 minutes ago, 47South said:

Adding to the problem is instructions from trainers. How often do you hear trainers tell the jockeys take a sit and start your run at the 600.

How often have you heard a trainer give such an instruction?

[mikenz 1,088]

2 minutes ago, 47South said:

Adding to the problem is instructions from trainers. How often do you hear trainers tell the jockeys take a sit and start your run at the 600. All very well  in a truly run "race" Horses are trained to stretch  out and gallop not stop and start because most jockeys in particular apprentices are more focused on following  instructions because if not ?? maybe they wont get many more rides from that trainer Our best jockeys read the race and ride accordingly .

It's a shame that the trainers dont ride,but gee how hard being a trainer,doing all the prep and then having someone on who dont do the job very well.probably happens everyday in every race,but re your comment regarding the best riders that's why they are the best,experience is the key.

[Leggy 4,068]

17 minutes ago, mikenz said:

It's a shame that the trainers dont ride,but gee how hard being a trainer,doing all the prep and then having someone on who dont do the job very well.probably happens everyday in every race,but re your comment regarding the best riders that's why they are the best,experience is the key.

I'd say skill and judgement is the key. Not experience.

 

[Houlahan's Dream 533]

6 hours ago, Gruff said:

Its not rocket science, we all know Jockeys are about as straight as a Z nail but can you blame them. If you have a highly competitive environment with the big money up you can guarantee competitiveness, otherwise you take your chances.  If the pearly gates are a thing no jockey is getting throughand harmess drivers arent getting within 100 metres.. great sport and great fun but these people cheat hard 

"....these people cheat hard....".

Never a truer word. 

I backed Warning in the Turnball and CCup. Ran hard in the Turnball - just out of money. Seemed to position for a run in CC, then Jockey sticks to inside, gets held up, it opens up for him - just sits there. Finished 12th. Barely seemed to be extended. Bit of a pipe opener before the big dance (MCup)? Who knows. I suppose there are dozens of examples of that, with each big race day. As a punter that's why the big races are easier to bet in because you know they will all be trying 110%. 

 

I am not saying at all that being a good or top jockey is an easy trade. Far from it. But in terms of post race excuses 'we just got beat' is preferable to 'they didn't go fast enough!'

[47South 26]

1 hour ago, Leggy said:

How often have you heard a trainer give such an instruction?

Many times in the bird cage and plenty on trackside when trainers being interview ie we well sit back and run on, or we well take a sit off the pace blah blah

 

[Leggy 4,068]

2 hours ago, 47South said:

Many times in the bird cage and plenty on trackside when trainers being interview ie we well sit back and run on, or we well take a sit off the pace blah blah

 

You've heard trainers giving instructions to jockeys on Trackside?