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NZ’s High Prisoner rate

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According to a report in today’s “The Australian”, NZ has the 2nd highest prisoner population per 100,000 population, in the OECD. How can one explain this? Is it due to the scourge of “P” in the community or, is it due to a highly efficient Policy Force or a good right leaning Court System? 

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15 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

No respect or fear of consequences when you are a "yoof" in NZ. All carrot , no stick! Sorry, forgot the kicker--it has to be due to colonisation.

Definately the Colonials fault, its that obvious.  Completely destroyed their way of life ..... the Indigenous Moriori  said the same thing about Maori, RIP 😔

 

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22 minutes ago, Gruff said:

Definately the Colonials fault, its that obvious.  Completely destroyed their way of life ..... the Indigenous Moriori  said the same thing about Maori, RIP 😔

 

The myth goes something like this: that once upon a time, Aotearoa was home to a race of people called the Moriori. That the Moriori were primitive, inferior folk. And that eventually, when Māori arrived on these shores, they massacred, ate, and completely wiped out the Moriori people.

The myth was busted decades ago - yet it has persisted for generations.

Why?

Because it's convenient, according to Maui Solomon.

Solomon is the chair of Hokotehi Moriori Trust. He, alongside many others with Moriori hokopapa, has been fighting for correction of the historical record - and for a treaty settlement - since 1988.

And earlier this month, that settlement was finally signed, sealed and delivered.

"The reason [the myth of Moriori extinction] became so powerfully ingrained in the psyche of New Zealanders is because, if Māori could push Moriori out of NZ, then later European migrants could push Māori off their land,” he says.

 

"It suited the narrative, and it was a justification of European colonisation of Māori land."

cheers...

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24 minutes ago, jack said:

 

 

 it was a justification of European colonisation of Māori land."

 

Go Jack! Maori land? All land is in transitional ownership/guardianship. Nothing is absolute. The majority of Maori welcomed the colonisers as a path to safety from the marauding tribes dominating, killing, and yes, eating , others.At a primitive level total victory over your enemy was achieved by converting them to excrement.

Maybe your NZ utopia is paralleled by the headhunters of the Andamann Islands--circa NZ early 18th century they are still to this day cannibalising any careless coloniser who lands on one of their beaches.

Sure, there were some dodgy deals done in the past, but most NZers acknowledge this and successive Governments have made genuine efforts to repair the past. In the land of probably the greatest freedom and opportunity potential on the planet incarceration only results from not behaving yourself. Stop the excuses and embrace personal responsibility.

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19 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

Go Jack! Maori land? All land is in transitional ownership/guardianship. Nothing is absolute. The majority of Maori welcomed the colonisers as a path to safety from the marauding tribes dominating, killing, and yes, eating , others.At a primitive level total victory over your enemy was achieved by converting them to excrement.

Maybe your NZ utopia is paralleled by the headhunters of the Andamann Islands--circa NZ early 18th century they are still to this day cannibalising any careless coloniser who lands on one of their beaches.

Sure, there were some dodgy deals done in the past, but most NZers acknowledge this and successive Governments have made genuine efforts to repair the past. In the land of probably the greatest freedom and opportunity potential on the planet incarceration only results from not behaving yourself. Stop the excuses and embrace personal responsibility.

In a nutshell ...

"The reason [the myth of Moriori extinction] became so powerfully ingrained in the psyche of New Zealanders is because, if Māori could push Moriori out of NZ, then later European migrants could push Māori off their land,” 

 

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4 minutes ago, jack said:

In a nutshell ...

"The reason [the myth of Moriori extinction] became so powerfully ingrained in the psyche of New Zealanders is because, if Māori could push Moriori out of NZ, then later European migrants could push Māori off their land,” 

 

We got that Jack 😀

I grew up with Maori friends, smart, good at sport and loved to drink, lived in a very average home growing up ( 3 bedroom 5 kids) like most in our neighbourhood  and didnt rip off others. They all now have jobs and family... no handouts... how come this crew from Otaki living in Auckland didnt have their hands out complaining ? 

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this has gone away from the question I asked. The 2nd highest prisoner number per 100,000 pop in the OECD. By the responses, nobody has answered the question. Is “P” a major cause of crime and therefore, the high incarceration rate in NZ? If it is, why have successive Govts wimped on cleaning out the Suppliers and Distributors? Some say that the Asian Importers and Bikie gang distributors are given an easy ride. Is that the case? 

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Pretty much Trump. Like Australia, P has become a scourge in this country, mostly gang-controlled I believe, not helped by the repatriation of criminals who have previously plied their trade in Oz. Months turn into years before they are brought to Court.

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56 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

Pretty much Trump. Like Australia, P has become a scourge in this country, mostly gang-controlled I believe, not helped by the repatriation of criminals who have previously plied their trade in Oz. Months turn into years before they are brought to Court.

P has been a big problem in NZ for 20+ years - well before the Aussies started sending home” of crims from Oz. When you look at Japan, the lowest in the OECD, there’s something wrong with the NZ “clean green image”. 

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@Trump 

Interesting Timelines of when P came into prevalence in society, similar era to Hon/ Han Lik & his e cigarette / vaping empire , he's a qualified Pharmacist.

P surfaced in NZ era of Clint Rickards in charge of Police & undercover operations. The same era as Helen Cark was PM & Labour Party Governance.

A TVNZ (?) media person apparently did a good investigation into it a number of years ago & went to Australia as they were forbidden to tell the story on TV here.

 The problem is Police are terrified for their lives & that of their families lives to do much abt it.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, meomy said:

@Trump 

Interesting Timelines of when P came into prevalence in society, similar era to Hon/ Han Lik & his e cigarette / vaping empire , he's a qualified Pharmacist.

P surfaced in NZ era of Clint Rickards in charge of Police & undercover operations. The same era as Helen Cark was PM & Labour Party Governance.

A TVNZ (?) media person apparently did a good investigation into it a number of years ago & went to Australia as they were forbidden to tell the story on TV here.

 The problem is Police are terrified for their lives & that of their families lives to do much abt it.  

 

 

Bring back the death penalty??

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Stuart Nash is not The Minister of Corrections nor is he The Minister of Justice. So why would we be replacing him?

It could be argued that with NZ incarceration numbers so high, the Police under Minister Stuart Nash are doing a fine job of arresting the bad boys.

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15 hours ago, Trump said:

this has gone away from the question I asked. The 2nd highest prisoner number per 100,000 pop in the OECD. By the responses, nobody has answered the question. Is “P” a major cause of crime and therefore, the high incarceration rate in NZ? If it is, why have successive Govts wimped on cleaning out the Suppliers and Distributors? Some say that the Asian Importers and Bikie gang distributors are given an easy ride. Is that the case? 

You've asked the question, but clearly believe you know the answer. In your view methamphetamine is the reason for NZ's high incarceration numbers.

Then you go on to say Govt's are "wimping out", Yet I read about arrests almost every day; both small time and large scale. 

The better question would be  -why are so many Kiwi's attracted to methamphetamine use? What's going on in NZ society?

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7 hours ago, Uriah Heap said:

Stuart Nash is not The Minister of Corrections nor is he The Minister of Justice. So why would we be replacing him?

It could be argued that with NZ incarceration numbers so high, the Police under Minister Stuart Nash are doing a fine job of arresting the bad boys.

Sorry Heap, but I think Corrections is Kelvin Davis, he of appointment due to ethnicity and affirmative action, Justice probably Parker (he of Investigate Magazine article several years ago) so take your pick, all equally incompetent but all just continuing the soft on crime policies of successive governments.In saying that Corrections don't set policy, they only pamper the miscreants, so it ramps back to Nash and Parker to squash the mongrels  operating in the P world.

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25 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

Sorry Heap, but I think Corrections is Kelvin Davis, he of appointment due to ethnicity and affirmative action, Justice probably Parker (he of Investigate Magazine article several years ago) so take your pick, all equally incompetent but all just continuing the soft on crime policies of successive governments.In saying that Corrections don't set policy, they only pamper the miscreants, so it ramps back to Nash and Parker to squash the mongrels  operating in the P world.

Don't think Nash or Parker have anything to do with length of sentences or time served, only Judges and those at the Beehive control the length of sentence.  But it is election year, someone from some political group will no doubt push the worn out Lets get tough on gangs and crime, while not knowing they are 60 years too late.    🚾

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6 hours ago, Uriah Heap said:

You've asked the question, but clearly believe you know the answer. In your view methamphetamine is the reason for NZ's high incarceration numbers.

Then you go on to say Govt's are "wimping out", Yet I read about arrests almost every day; both small time and large scale. 

The better question would be  -why are so many Kiwi's attracted to methamphetamine use? What's going on in NZ society?

Ok here's an inconvenient truth proven over the decades and complained about by Maori leaders , a disproportionate %  of prisoners are Maori and it's true so why ? , it's long been known that if you remove Maori from the stats NZ imprisonment rates are low .

Reasons , for starters more are encouraged to identify as Maori even though many are Maori impersonators , classic example Anika Moa , did the DNA  and shock horror barely any Maori blood , I THINK it was west African .  The lefty's thrive on splitting the population that's why labour invented the grievance industry  , The treaty , it created a European system to administrate  the so called partnership (no partnership mentioned in treaty) .

The result is tribal hierarchy combined with lawyers , classic haves and have knots , the less well off are never going anywhere , traditional tribal values will ensure the less well off will always be less well off  , they have no future under this system so drugs , crime , METHAMPHETAMINE , methamphetamine trading , imprisonment .

There you go Uriah and Jack that's what's happening , the treaty hierarchy is using the average Maori , give them a grass skirt and poke your tongue out , do as you are told and be happy it's all about tribal ownership which condemns many to a life of  no OWNERSHIP , no long term WEALTH building but that's how labour likes it .

Thank goodness NZ  has plenty of Maori who are just getting on with life and just like the rest of us doing the best we can .

DON'T IGNORE THE IMPORTANCE OF INDIVIDUAL OWNERSHIP and long term steady wealth building ,  something not recognised or encouraged by the treaty . More wellbeing , more family stability , more wealth creation = less  drugs less imprisonment .


HOPE I haven't upset to many but that's how I  see it .

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2 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

Ok here's an inconvenient truth proven over the decades and complained about by Maori leaders , a disproportionate %  of prisoners are Maori and it's true so why ? , it's long been known that if you remove Maori from the stats NZ imprisonment rates are low .

Reasons , for starters more are encouraged to identify as Maori even though many are Maori impersonators , classic example Anika Moa , did the DNA  and shock horror barely any Maori blood , I THINK it was west African .  The lefty's thrive on splitting the population that's why labour invented the grievance industry  , The treaty , it created a European system to administrate  the so called partnership (no partnership mentioned in treaty) .

The result is tribal hierarchy combined with lawyers , classic haves and have knots , the less well off are never going anywhere , traditional tribal values will ensure the less well off will always be less well off  , they have no future under this system so drugs , crime , METHAMPHETAMINE , methamphetamine trading , imprisonment .

There you go Uriah and Jack that's what's happening , the treaty hierarchy is using the average Maori , give them a grass skirt and poke your tongue out , do as you are told and be happy it's all about tribal ownership which condemns many to a life of  no OWNERSHIP , no long term WEALTH building but that's how labour likes it .

Thank goodness NZ  has plenty of Maori who are just getting on with life and just like the rest of us doing the best we can .

DON'T IGNORE THE IMPORTANCE OF INDIVIDUAL OWNERSHIP and long term steady wealth building ,  something not recognised or encouraged by the treaty . More wellbeing , more family stability , more wealth creation = less  drugs less imprisonment .


HOPE I haven't upset to many but that's how I  see it .

And with that answer you’ve consigned Uriah to the heap. I don’t have the answer to the high incarceration rate. Certainly, “P” has to be up there imho. 

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So there we have it!! Tripple A has it that the problem is Maori "tribal hierarchy", created by a false interpretation of the Treaty of Waitangi. So all on the shoulders of the Maori themselves, eh?

I'm not so sure about that. You're a man who knows his history Tripple A and i reckon you need to observe a bit more widely on this one.

But at least we managed to get poor old Police Minister Stuart Nash off the hook. Chevy 6 had the finger pointed directly at him.....and he's not even Maori.

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5 hours ago, Uriah Heap said:

So there we have it!! Tripple A has it that the problem is Maori "tribal hierarchy", created by a false interpretation of the Treaty of Waitangi. So all on the shoulders of the Maori themselves, eh?

I'm not so sure about that. You're a man who knows his history Tripple A and i reckon you need to observe a bit more widely on this one.

But at least we managed to get poor old Police Minister Stuart Nash off the hook. Chevy 6 had the finger pointed directly at him.....and he's not even Maori.

Wrong Uriah I  have no problem with tribal hierarchy the problem lies at the feet of the labour government that established the gravy train , it was established with a socialist agenda an agenda that has entrenched a poor future for those on the bottom rung  and provided an excellent income for those on the top of the heap .

In 50 years time those who have gained no benefit from settlements will still be less well of if they are counting on settlements to improve their lives , this gravy train has been in action for 30 odd years and those on the bottom rung are worse off today than ever before . The labour socialist designed treaty settlement plan is a failure for most even though 100s of millions have been paid out to tribes and lawyers . 

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20 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

Ok here's an inconvenient truth proven over the decades and complained about by Maori leaders , a disproportionate %  of prisoners are Maori and it's true so why ? , it's long been known that if you remove Maori from the stats NZ imprisonment rates are low .

Reasons , for starters more are encouraged to identify as Maori even though many are Maori impersonators , classic example Anika Moa , did the DNA  and shock horror barely any Maori blood , I THINK it was west African .  The lefty's thrive on splitting the population that's why labour invented the grievance industry  , The treaty , it created a European system to administrate  the so called partnership (no partnership mentioned in treaty) .

The result is tribal hierarchy combined with lawyers , classic haves and have knots , the less well off are never going anywhere , traditional tribal values will ensure the less well off will always be less well off  , they have no future under this system so drugs , crime , METHAMPHETAMINE , methamphetamine trading , imprisonment .

There you go Uriah and Jack that's what's happening , the treaty hierarchy is using the average Maori , give them a grass skirt and poke your tongue out , do as you are told and be happy it's all about tribal ownership which condemns many to a life of  no OWNERSHIP , no long term WEALTH building but that's how labour likes it .

Thank goodness NZ  has plenty of Maori who are just getting on with life and just like the rest of us doing the best we can .

DON'T IGNORE THE IMPORTANCE OF INDIVIDUAL OWNERSHIP and long term steady wealth building ,  something not recognised or encouraged by the treaty . More wellbeing , more family stability , more wealth creation = less  drugs less imprisonment .


HOPE I haven't upset to many but that's how I  see it .

Further to your point , lots of maori (including my family)have land or shares in land that is not able to be traded on the open market or used as collateral in the same way as " normal " land , another handicap to wealth creation for the rank and file but not for the tribal leaders who control much of it( for a price of course)

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1 hour ago, Nukkledragga said:

Further to your point , lots of maori (including my family)have land or shares in land that is not able to be traded on the open market or used as collateral in the same way as " normal " land , another handicap to wealth creation for the rank and file but not for the tribal leaders who control much of it( for a price of course)

And that's the problem the settlement process compensates the tribe not individuals  when it's individuals who need assistance . Maori tribes today have billions of dollars in assets but to many individuals are struggling . The design of the settlement process is flawed unless you think a socialist almost communist system will be helpful .

Owning a share in an asset but not able to utilise that asset means you might as well not own it , it's useless to an individual .

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1 hour ago, tripple alliance said:

And that's the problem the settlement process compensates the tribe not individuals  when it's individuals who need assistance . Maori tribes today have billions of dollars in assets but to many individuals are struggling . The design of the settlement process is flawed unless you think a socialist almost communist system will be helpful .

Owning a share in an asset but not able to utilise that asset means you might as well not own it , it's useless to an individual .

Don't tell me the average Maori worker doesn't get to "fleet-share" all the BMWs the Mahutas cruise around in! (That's a little historical, maybe Teslas now?)

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On 9/10/2020 at 3:54 PM, tripple alliance said:

Wrong Uriah I  have no problem with tribal hierarchy the problem lies at the feet of the labour government that established the gravy train , it was established with a socialist agenda

......and then picked up by the 2008 - 2017 National Govt and driven on relentlessly, under the stewardship of Attorney General,  Chris Finlayson.

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