shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 With NZTR now (post Covid) making the winners percentage 54% as opposed to prior years 62.5% it is now possible to win this years Group 2 race and lose money for the year as an owner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Bidlake 759 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 $98 a day and the horse doesn't get a spell? fermoy, Breeder, 47South and 1 other 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Aaron Bidlake said: $98 a day and the horse doesn't get a spell? Training fees have more than just trainers cost. Blacksmith, vets etc. If it isn't $36K it is not a mile off. Aaron Bidlake, Pam Robson and Insider 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad 1,540 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 Always wanted to be a vet, but there was always someone putting me down. Baz (NZ), Pam Robson, Red Rum and 1 other 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said: Training fees have more than just trainers cost. Blacksmith, vets etc. If it isn't $36K it is not a mile off. Some syndicates charge the 3k to 3.5k per month , there's mention above re spelling but I might have it totally wrong but I understand some syndicates charge 3 to 3.5 pm for the full twelve months regardless how long in work. If I am wrong on that I would be happy to be corrected . shaneMcAlister 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Bidlake 759 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said: Training fees have more than just trainers cost. Blacksmith, vets etc. If it isn't $36K it is not a mile off. Ah ok. Thought you just meant straight out training daily rate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, Red Rum said: Some syndicates charge the 3k to 3.5k per month , there's mention above re spelling but I might have it totally wrong but I understand some syndicates charge 3 to 3.5 pm for the full twelve months regardless how long in work. If I am wrong on that I would be happy to be corrected . Agree syndicates comfortably can charge $3.5K a month and probably have a syndicator fee to come out of winnings too so would lose money. Not a criticism of syndication a reflection of the state of our industry. Crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 27 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said: Agree syndicates comfortably can charge $3.5K a month and probably have a syndicator fee to come out of winnings too so would lose money. Not a criticism of syndication a reflection of the state of our industry. Crazy. You'd hope not too much a fee comes out of the super flop "Lethals" coins he's earnt . fermoy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stodge 1,912 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 Every jurisdiction is cutting prize money for the simple reason there is no income coming in via on-track spectators. I presume betting income with you is down as well so NZTR have had to cut the coat according to their cloth. Over here, which, to be fair, is a different operating model, the values of the lowest grade races have been maintained as close to pre-Covid as possible while the top races have had their purses slashed. The Sprint Trophy at Haydock on Saturday is going for £133,500 to the winner this year compared with £170,130 in 2019. This has caused a lot of anguish among Owners but the economics up here mean that as long as racecourses are losing money they can't keep putting what they have left into prize money and the BHA reserves won't last for ever. shaneMcAlister, soliloquy and Pam Robson 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 6 hours ago, stodge said: Every jurisdiction is cutting prize money for the simple reason there is no income coming in via on-track spectators. I presume betting income with you is down as well so NZTR have had to cut the coat according to their cloth. Over here, which, to be fair, is a different operating model, the values of the lowest grade races have been maintained as close to pre-Covid as possible while the top races have had their purses slashed. The Sprint Trophy at Haydock on Saturday is going for £133,500 to the winner this year compared with £170,130 in 2019. This has caused a lot of anguish among Owners but the economics up here mean that as long as racecourses are losing money they can't keep putting what they have left into prize money and the BHA reserves won't last for ever. I am not sure the closed doors cost too much here Stodge, the close down maybe but with the government bailout and quality OZ racing they got by .Apart from big days on course is pretty much deserted , you could drop a cluster bomb at most meetings and doubt much injury or damage would be caused . Entry free , no money from bookie pitches , flaky paint , it's not a destination here for people to go to bar addicts like us hardcore on here . Ellerslie by all accounts is on improve to be fair . Nothing at all like the throngs at Cartmel in summer with some sticky date pudding pre meeting , Windsor on a Monday evening , or in fact Huntingdon on a cold Tuesday mid winter , people just don't go racing here . shaneMcAlister 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Red Rum said: I am not sure the closed doors cost too much here Stodge, the close down maybe but with the government bailout and quality OZ racing they got by .Apart from big days on course is pretty much deserted , you could drop a cluster bomb at most meetings and doubt much injury or damage would be caused . Entry free , no money from bookie pitches , flaky paint , it's not a destination here for people to go to bar addicts like us hardcore on here . Ellerslie by all accounts is on improve to be fair . Nothing at all like the throngs at Cartmel in summer with some sticky date pudding pre meeting , Windsor on a Monday evening , or in fact Huntingdon on a cold Tuesday mid winter , people just don't go racing here . I use to love goign to Windsor on a Monday evening, caught the boat there. Red Rum 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 7 hours ago, stodge said: Every jurisdiction is cutting prize money for the simple reason there is no income coming in via on-track spectators. I presume betting income with you is down as well so NZTR have had to cut the coat according to their cloth. Over here, which, to be fair, is a different operating model, the values of the lowest grade races have been maintained as close to pre-Covid as possible while the top races have had their purses slashed. The Sprint Trophy at Haydock on Saturday is going for £133,500 to the winner this year compared with £170,130 in 2019. This has caused a lot of anguish among Owners but the economics up here mean that as long as racecourses are losing money they can't keep putting what they have left into prize money and the BHA reserves won't last for ever. Our prize money is just at a unsustainable level for owners now. NZTR had $15k races post lockdown with distribution back to 14. They have returned to $10K races and kept this distribution split. TAB does little to promote racing now and NZTR were promoting Hickman wanting NZ owners and NZ horses the other day (big help to NZ trainers)!!!! Where does this stop. Pam Robson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said: I use to love goign to Windsor on a Monday evening, caught the boat there. Great night out and I recommend it to anyone who heads over during summer , even non racing I know who've gone have had a top night, I had a night there once I couldn't back a loser , it was like a dream until Dettori let me down on a Godolphin hotpot . Used to go during winter when they had jumps racing there round the figure of 8 . Lot of Chelsea players used to head there after training in winter , Kerry Dixon was a good punter and there a lot . shaneMcAlister and Dissident 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted September 1, 2020 Bendigo have 8 races for today’s midweek meeting in COVID Victoria. All worth $50k. TurnyTom and shaneMcAlister 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobysnacks 386 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Trump said: Bendigo have 8 races for today’s midweek meeting in COVID Victoria. All worth $50k. Surely you're not expecting NZ to compete with Australia in terms of stakes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 50 minutes ago, NextPlease said: Surely you're not expecting NZ to compete with Australia in terms of stakes? No we are not, but a 1/5 of their prize money with 54% to winner. $4,700 to owner before float etc will barely cover training fees for the month. And to make matters worse owners are not even allowed on course.....FFS hedley, Baz (NZ), ADM and 1 other 2 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 11 979 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 4 hours ago, shaneMcAlister said: No we are not, but a 1/5 of their prize money with 54% to winner. $4,700 to owner before float etc will barely cover training fees for the month. And to make matters worse owners are not even allowed on course.....FFS NZ owners are very resilient , small returns don't appear to phase us. Currently there are still plenty of horses being nominated to race on mainly wet tracks so who knows...this could continue into the spring and summer. There hasn't really been a big drop off in owners...even with the uncertainty of racing in these troubled times syndicates appear to be being sold. With no travel , concerts etc maybe this an influence currently. Plus the carrot of getting good money for a horse with real ability should you snare one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Bidlake 759 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, tasman man 11 said: There hasn't really been a big drop off in owners...even with the uncertainty of racing in these troubled times syndicates appear to be being sold. Not so sure on that. I'm only a small player but even I have been affected on syndicating a horse at the moment with a couple who were basically locked in only to have to pull pin after losing the jobs. Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 6 hours ago, shaneMcAlister said: No we are not, but a 1/5 of their prize money with 54% to winner. $4,700 to owner before float etc will barely cover training fees for the month. And to make matters worse owners are not even allowed on course.....FFS $4.7k to have a horse in work in NZ racing for what's on offer, are you serious? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Huey said: $4.7k to have a horse in work in NZ racing for what's on offer, are you serious? Agree Huey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad 1,540 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 Maybe to the majority it's just the passion of racing, I know when I went into ownership with a few others, never really had to many thought of making money or even getting a winner, never any givens in this game, but have had a whale of a ride with our fella winning 7 races and 8 seconds, also had the thrill of him starting in the New Zealand cup a few years back, the next horse not so much luck, foot issues and lameness has hamstrung us, but remain hopeful we may get him to the races one day, just as well we are patient. Pam Robson, soliloquy and Dissident 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 11 979 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Aaron Bidlake said: Not so sure on that. I'm only a small player but even I have been affected on syndicating a horse at the moment with a couple who were basically locked in only to have to pull pin after losing the jobs. Again Aaron , I just talk from my own experience from a circle of people. I actually thought there may be a big drop off. Did you advertise ?....or just word of mouth and personal approach ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissident 155 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Shad said: Maybe to the majority it's just the passion of racing, I know when I went into ownership with a few others, never really had to many thought of making money or even getting a winner, never any givens in this game, but have had a whale of a ride with our fella winning 7 races and 8 seconds, also had the thrill of him starting in the New Zealand cup a few years back, the next horse not so much luck, foot issues and lameness has hamstrung us, but remain hopeful we may get him to the races one day, just as well we are patient. Yes, I thought for most in Nz now it was essentially a reality of paying for ownership because you have a passion for racing. If you don't have a passion for it then I can't see why you would want to pay for it. Not so long ago minimum stakes were only $5000. A small handful get lucky with a repeat Group 1 winning horse, and even then if syndicated chances are the horse has to go to Oz to chase the real prize money. If it doesn't get sold to Oz or Hong Kong first. With the Foxbridge example is it any wonder most choose to take those offers from overseas? Leaving some leading trainers to consider themselves "pre-trainers". Seems to have been quite an influx through eventstars and on gavelhouse. That could actually make it a good time for some to get involved or increase numbers for less outlay, but I think the true drop off will come, just not until later. If current stakes are only sustainable because of a bailout, then the longer term reality is there is no certainty on stakes for the 2021/22 season. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 10 hours ago, NextPlease said: Surely you're not expecting NZ to compete with Australia in terms of stakes? No, especially whilst your TAB operates an uncompetitive monopoly. I’m just pointing out the rewards awaiting those fabulous NZ young trainers and can’t understand why many so good want to swim like a shark in a kiddies wading pool. Dissident 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stodge 1,912 Report post Posted September 2, 2020 20 hours ago, shaneMcAlister said: I use to love goign to Windsor on a Monday evening, caught the boat there. Done it many times, On Monday evenings the boat is more overcrowded than an Egyptian ferry and it's not the most enjoyable experience. For an afternoon meeting, of course, it's much quieter and the river boat journey a real pleasure on a sunny afternoon - it's a unique way to arrive at a racecourse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...