RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
mikenz

Dropping turnovers

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Leggy said:

I think most participants in racing are interested in what turnovers are doing. At, least annually, they have to be tabled in parliament in the form of audited accounts of TABNZ and by the codes in their reports to their member clubs. They have always been regularly available in the past. Not sure why they have suddenly become commercially sensitive in NZ? They are not regarded as such in most other racing countries are they?

I too often wonder why the great interest in turnovers ,even though they a huge influence on TAB profits and hence stakes ![ Bulk funding an influence]

Sports Betting keeps growing ,Racing decreasing ...Fixed odds overall steady but lower margins in FO and sports [all sports is FO !]

I guess the trends and comparisons with last year are of interest and nice to know .

But are apples always being compared with apples ?eg at Alex Park trots the main tote on race night not part of TAB figures.

Over 50% of betting TO done digitally now. Multis can be mixed codes/sports.

Many on here are proud they mainly or always bet with Aussie or overseas totes/agencies.

Some FACTS I find interesting , and I am aware the odd sniper will be watching for a slip up !

The top 2% of punters drive 56 % of betting[2019] ,some say the top 10% accounts for 90% .

Kiwis bet more on Aussie races than NZ races.Harness betting has been decreasing for years and Greyhounds steadily catching up.

In 2019 Harness both on and off course down by 13% approx. Fixed Odds up marginally On course down over 30% over past 5 years.Offcourse down 22% FO down 2.5%.

Exported TO down 23%.Total races held 200 less [7.5%] ,Average field size up marginally......over the past 5 years !

Winners paying less than $2 down 5% 2019 ,cf 2018.

At gallops Aussies bet 71% of what Kiwis bet on our races......we bet more on Aussie races than Kiwi races.

A cynic could  ask ,do we need Kiwi racing ??????

In NZ gallops a lot of oncourse figures fall well below $100k per race day

A few got less than $50k..[Kumara a star with 227 k

Many of the medium plus clubs average a million in total turnover ,but many don't make $1m.

Having Saturday or Holiday dates obviously helps edge the average over $1 mill.

Other interesting titbits picked up from around the traps......

A friend won $50 k [fifty !] off a $10 all up bet.

Another acquaintance likes a punt , once risking $100k on a win at harness @ short odds !

Any questions...there will be a test in few days !

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 9/1/2020 at 11:19 AM, Leggy said:

I think most participants in racing are interested in what turnovers are doing. At, least annually, they have to be tabled in parliament in the form of audited accounts of TABNZ and by the codes in their reports to their member clubs. They have always been regularly available in the past. Not sure why they have suddenly become commercially sensitive in NZ? They are not regarded as such in most other racing countries are they?

I beg to differ , you try and get Fixed Odds amounts traded with Ladbrooks or TAB Corp and see how you get on. Pari Mutual is completely different as even NZTAB app shows amounts invested in each category.

This thread opens with talk of declining turnover, do we know that this is actually the case . Say comparing it with last year?? What would the naysayers reply oif that were not the case and the GWR was higher??

 

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JJ Flash said:

This thread opens with talk of declining turnover, do we know that this is actually the case . Say comparing it with last year?? What would the naysayers reply oif that were not the case and the GWR was higher??

 

Greg

How would you know?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lee270744 said:

JJ do you think Whiplash Smile is a trifle upset with the other site.🤣

Just had a look. Another late night meltdown by one of the nutters  on that forum. Let's hope he seeks help as he surely needs it based on that

Chief obviously likes him and the click bait he attracts to his site. Any reasonable site would take it all down and expel the author 

 

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is another question,

Invercargill raced on thursday and otakl gallops raced as well so it's fair to assume that the trots turnover dropped as opposed to racing on it's own,does that affect the clubs share of funds or is that offset by the fact that more than one meeting reduces the operating cost of the tab,just curious.

Same thing tommorow,Addington and Wingatui.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic to have Trackside at Methven on Saturday taping all of the trials. The dulcet tones of Matt Markham (not via the raceday sound system)  giving great commentaries, throughout.

A real good lead in watch on more than a few who will be racing on Sunday.

Under level 2 Methven is able to host all owners who make it up there. Betting will be via mobile devices only or alternatively up the road to the Brown Pub.

The Brown Pub will have their food caravan there from 12 noon onwards  - a good hot and cold food selection (no alcoholic drinks available for purchase... red tape under Covid rules)  However Methven does have a byo alcohol policy in place so no problems if you put a couple of cold ones in your chilly bin to celebrate your horse racing.

Good luck to Madam Saas resuming and her owners - Westview Racing No.19 Syndicate, The Witches Of Westview No.2 Syndicate

Love to see you all there and cheering this good thing on.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets wonder if TAB will ever ask why trot turnovers going down . I could list 20 reasons and at least 15 self inflicted. !!!!!!!  those of us still interested in this subject (including writer) may like to provide say top 5 for the benefit of those  who still operating in a strong Canterbury fog. :rcf-happy-7:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, john legend said:

Lets wonder if TAB will ever ask why trot turnovers going down . I could list 20 reasons and at least 15 self inflicted. !!!!!!!  those of us still interested in this subject (including writer) may like to provide say top 5 for the benefit of those  who still operating in a strong Canterbury fog. :rcf-happy-7:

List your top 5......I know one thing for sure. i.e. most Harness enthusiasts will not agree ,they will prefer to have their own take on the situation ,often influenced by their own personal interest or situation. Getting consensus a huge hurdle.

My top 5....

1. Competition for leisure and better dollar.

2. Recent generations have many entertainment options....Racing seen as boring.....very boring !

3. Recent generations have many entertainment options....Racing is too hard to gain knowledge in , and understand.

4. Racing often lacks professionalism ....often run by Amateurs .

5. This is 2020....racings image and 'brand' seen as 1970's ....run by stale ,pale males

JMHO

My 5 won't be easy to fix , but young female involvement as drivers and trainers should be highlighted more !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. closing tabs and substituting at clubs/pubs etc. (where barmen sometimes find their discussion rudely interrupted by a bettor!!)Whanganui 5 Tabs now 1 for a gen area of 60000 people. and putting pokies into remaining tabs (pushing the competition )

2. virtually nil promotion (other than 62/63 channel )of racing (remember great promos of past) cf lotto. no excitement or advert the big winners.!

3very little coverage newspapers/racebooks/billboards. just a non event.

4.TAB behind "need" to destroy racing in large areas of nz to cut their staff costs . while necessary will have a corresponding detrimental effect on turnovers.

5.removing any discussion generators such radio channel (des Coppins and others)removing Teletext,removing on course interviews .in fact all things that may encourage betting. (not to mention removal humans sellers on course !) thats 5 for starters. if you want another 10 will provide but dont want to be a perpetual "grizzler" (but prob already have that tag )

do agree with Tasman many other areas just a sign of the times and over 50s cannot sustain an industry that has a lost generation BUT other countries have a survival plan and remain an active part of the culture. with a bit of razamatazz for the younger participants. 

Also agree there are no subjects raised that bring the racing industry together to fight for a common goal and incredible in fighting and selfish interests always at play. Covid 19... is another matter and TAB cannot be blamed (I dont think)but has 

brought all weaknesses to a head.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liken the TAB cutting radio & TV programs like the Box Seat to a company that reduces costs by cutting its sales force.  It has an immediate positive effect on cash flow but as time goes on you naturally loose customers for whatever reason and 5 years down the track you don’t have enough customers to support the business as no new customers are being bought on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, john legend said:

1. closing tabs and substituting at clubs/pubs etc. (where barmen sometimes find their discussion rudely interrupted by a bettor!!)Whanganui 5 Tabs now 1 for a gen area of 60000 people. and putting pokies into remaining tabs (pushing the competition )

2. virtually nil promotion (other than 62/63 channel )of racing (remember great promos of past) cf lotto. no excitement or advert the big winners.!

3very little coverage newspapers/racebooks/billboards. just a non event.

4.TAB behind "need" to destroy racing in large areas of nz to cut their staff costs . while necessary will have a corresponding detrimental effect on turnovers.

5.removing any discussion generators such radio channel (des Coppins and others)removing Teletext,removing on course interviews .in fact all things that may encourage betting. (not to mention removal humans sellers on course !) thats 5 for starters. if you want another 10 will provide but dont want to be a perpetual "grizzler" (but prob already have that tag )

do agree with Tasman many other areas just a sign of the times and over 50s cannot sustain an industry that has a lost generation BUT other countries have a survival plan and remain an active part of the culture. with a bit of razamatazz for the younger participants. 

Also agree there are no subjects raised that bring the racing industry together to fight for a common goal and incredible in fighting and selfish interests always at play. Covid 19... is another matter and TAB cannot be blamed (I dont think)but has 

brought all weaknesses to a head.

 

Good comments,I dont use a newspaper these days to get my fields,but some do,I don't bet at a tab but some do,I  did like trackside radio ,some listen on smartphone,I don't you see everybody is different and one needs to accept that there are different strokes for different folks,I bet on my smartphone but fucked if I'm gunna squint into a screen all day or listen through a website all day,I dont really understand why racing ain't free to air on tv,frankly I'm not bothered much these days if I have sky or not,I've seen enough sport but I do like radio to keep me up to date,taking racing away from some regions is another bad move and add to that a diet of same old same old week after week at harness racing after time becomes boring,today at Winton there is a good horse or two racing today that will raise some interest but in reality the field outside of those two should be in another field,top horses racing against battlers.the top races are becoming very uninteresting with domination by one or two stables.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, mikenz said:

3and a half thousand in the win pool race 1 Winton just before total dissapears that ain't much

Irrelevant as fixed odds is where majority of turnover is generated locally and Ozzies not active as yet

 

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

Irrelevant as fixed odds is where majority of turnover is generated locally and Ozzies not active as yet

 

Greg

 

12 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

Irrelevant as fixed odds is where majority of turnover is generated locally and Ozzies not active as yet

 

Greg

But it would be fair to say that if race 1 at midday was from gallops at Hastings it might be ten or twelve thousand,it does put things into perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 9/8/2020 at 3:38 PM, tasman man 11 said:

List your top 5......I know one thing for sure. i.e. most Harness enthusiasts will not agree ,they will prefer to have their own take on the situation ,often influenced by their own personal interest or situation. Getting consensus a huge hurdle.

My top 5....

1. Competition for leisure and better dollar.

2. Recent generations have many entertainment options....Racing seen as boring.....very boring !

3. Recent generations have many entertainment options....Racing is too hard to gain knowledge in , and understand.

4. Racing often lacks professionalism ....often run by Amateurs .

5. This is 2020....racings image and 'brand' seen as 1970's ....run by stale ,pale males

JMHO

My 5 won't be easy to fix , but young female involvement as drivers and trainers should be highlighted more !

Surely none of those five explain why trotting is fading in relation to gallops and dogs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Surely none of those five explain why trotting is fading in relation to gallops and dogs.

2 and 4 are very relevant IMHO and

 

9 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

List your top 5......I know one thing for sure. i.e. most Harness enthusiasts will not agree

And bang on you disagree with Tasman Man's efforts to identify Harness issues

 

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

This from  NZTR

NZTR general manager racing and infrastructure Tim Aldridge said the new season had started brightly in the South. So far in the six weeks of racing, there had been 899 starters in South Island meetings. That compared with 635 in the same period last year. Betting turnover had also increased.

Anything from our fearless HRNZ staff- not a chance

 

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, mikenz said:

I would seriously wonder how many big punters come out to play at Methven today,those fields are a minefield.

Weren't really, nearly had every winner in my picks , just not my most fancied ones. Got Take After Me TFA 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.