WELL DONE LJ SHANNON ON WINNING THE FIRST ROUND OF THE TWO WEEK COMP.
Dingle

open entry races

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When are these damned annoying open entry races going to finish...  I am totally over them..

Have a one win horse who has been balloted 5 times now

He is a 55 rating but if he got a start at last meeing he would have been up against rating 93 horse.  

This is not on

There were 21 noms  .. enough for 9, 65 and over and 12 below 65..but no they ballot us out of it..

Stuff racing

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46 minutes ago, Dingle said:

When are these damned annoying open entry races going to finish...  I am totally over them..

Have a one win horse who has been balloted 5 times now

He is a 55 rating but if he got a start at last meeing he would have been up against rating 93 horse.  

This is not on

There were 21 noms  .. enough for 9, 65 and over and 12 below 65..but no they ballot us out of it..

Stuff racing

Sadly, they don't really want your horse. The current philosophy is for fewer meetings with fewer races at each, and often ridiculously low field limits. There is a theory behind it, which is totally beyond me and other mere mortals. But rest assured your horse being balloted five times in a row is for the greater good of the industry.

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Great opportunity for them to show some initiative and manipulate the ratings to get horses through the grades and at the races, for the foreseeable future i.e. run some R60 races,1 win horse races  etc

I wonder if they have over promised on the stakes (to appease the industry) and have based that on running so many Open races etc and therefore got themselves into a corner.

Seriously when does the industry wake up and adjust stakes & costs to meet what is required to get the industry up and going, instead of this pie in the sky stuff to justify overpriced yearlings at the sales?

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9 minutes ago, Huey said:

Great opportunity for them to show some initiative and manipulate the ratings to get horses through the grades and at the races, for the foreseeable future i.e. run some R60 races,1 win horse races  etc

I wonder if they have over promised on the stakes (to appease the industry) and have based that on running so many Open races etc and therefore got themselves into a corner.

Seriously when does the industry wake up and adjust stakes & costs to meet what is required to get the industry up and going, instead of this pie in the sky stuff to justify overpriced yearlings at the sales?

Their incompetence is shown by programming these open entry races at $30,000 and then when they end up running a rating 105 race and a rating 69 they both run for said $30,000. Anyone with a hint of intelligence would adjust the stake depending on the maximum rating they end up with.

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Burnard answered my question on that this morning and they are going to look at some rating 74 mis September not sure about the 65 rating but there are 65 and madians mid week and weekends which a lot get split

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1 hour ago, army said:

Burnard answered my question on that this morning and they are going to look at some rating 74 mis September not sure about the 65 rating but there are 65 and madians mid week and weekends which a lot get split

Fantastic,  but why do you have to ask the question for this to be communicated?  Obviously slot of concern about it. 

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12 hours ago, army said:

Burnard answered my question on that this morning and they are going to look at some rating 74 mis September not sure about the 65 rating but there are 65 and madians mid week and weekends which a lot get split

Should of asked him you have race meetings programmed after end September but are you going to have any races with them

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14 hours ago, Dingle said:

When are these damned annoying open entry races going to finish...  I am totally over them..

Have a one win horse who has been balloted 5 times now

He is a 55 rating but if he got a start at last meeing he would have been up against rating 93 horse.  

This is not on

There were 21 noms  .. enough for 9, 65 and over and 12 below 65..but no they ballot us out of it..

Stuff racing

You not up with the play the are plenty 65 rating and maiden races going around but nothing for 72 or 82 rated horses

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Tim Aldridge and Bernard Saundry are failing owners and trainers by not being more flexible with race programming especially with horses in the rating 66 to 72 bands. Under Open Entry racing they are forced to compete against R90 plus horses and even Stakes Race winners putting them at an extreme disadvantage. Horses in this category, especially mares, are being retired as a result. In effect Aldridge and Saundry are dictating to trainers the racing programmes for horses R66 to 72. Being more flexible in their programming would allow trainers to do what they do best- placing horses in races where they can win prize money for their owners.

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Hard to know whether to put it all down to incompetence, ignorance, arrogance, or some secret scheme to rationalise all aspects of the industry and get rid of a layer of horses that don't meet some minimum standard. I keep deciding they are probably too thick to have any cunning schemes, so I usually do put most of their stupid decisions down to incompetence mixed with a healthy dose of ignorance and arrogance. 

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47 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

Hard to know whether to put it all down to incompetence, ignorance, arrogance, or some secret scheme to rationalise all aspects of the industry and get rid of a layer of horses that don't meet some minimum standard. I keep deciding they are probably too thick to have any cunning schemes, so I usually do put most of their stupid decisions down to incompetence mixed with a healthy dose of ignorance and arrogance. 

I'd go with your train of thought.

No such thing as horses that don't meet a certain standard imo. If these horses are catered for within the programming then they have a place in the industry, they maybe run at reduced stakes or something along those lines, but everyones horse has a place in the industry otherwise you get the venue plan placed on horses and the entire industry is ruined. The drought breaker works wonders in Aus. why couldn't that be something we look at here every so often, after all they copy everything else Aus does.

Even some $1mill yearlings might require a drought breaker to break their maiden.

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19 minutes ago, Huey said:

I'd go with your train of thought.

No such thing as horses that don't meet a certain standard imo. If these horses are catered for within the programming then they have a place in the industry, they maybe run at reduced stakes or something along those lines, but everyones horse has a place in the industry otherwise you get the venue plan placed on horses and the entire industry is ruined. The drought breaker works wonders in Aus. why couldn't that be something we look at here every so often, after all they copy everything else Aus does.

Even some $1mill yearlings might require a drought breaker to break their maiden.

Actually, no, they don't    'copy everything else Aus does'  ....only fragmented bits and pieces.

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1 hour ago, We're Doomed said:

Hard to know whether to put it all down to incompetence, ignorance, arrogance, or some secret scheme to rationalise all aspects of the industry and get rid of a layer of horses that don't meet some minimum standard. I keep deciding they are probably too thick to have any cunning schemes, so I usually do put most of their stupid decisions down to incompetence mixed with a healthy dose of ignorance and arrogance. 

They're not shrewd enough to come up with anything resembling a secret scheme . As Huey said every horse has it's place , they can all garner revenue , it's just being sharp enough to know how to maximize your product . We need to be increasing horse numbers so we can increase the number of races and in turn racedays which then starts increasing turnover which turns into increased revenue for the industry . It's not hard to understand , but these guys continue to put as many impediments in front of participants to make it as difficult as possible . All the time you are pissing owners off enough to the stage they stop racing horses is when you start making it more difficult to increase revenue .

There is a simple solve to all this tho , and that is the trainers starting to show some balls , make BS life a misery , everybody , owners as well , ring him up , email , txts , let him know things have to be sorted , pronto .

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What we really need to know is whether a "typical" low grade meeting with $80,000 - $90,000 in stakes actually breaks even or makes a small profit. If they are losing money then the industry has very little future. If they are making money then why don't we have more of them to give jockeys, trainers, owners and horses more opportunities?

And if these low grade meetings are hardly making any money how can we justify $40m of all weather tracks. I presume most of the meetings held on them will be for low grade $10,000 races. Has NZTR actually come out and indicated what their intentions are with these all weather tracks? How many months of the year will they be raced on, and can we expect to see group races and major meetings held on them?

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2 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

What we really need to know is whether a "typical" low grade meeting with $80,000 - $90,000 in stakes actually breaks even or makes a small profit. If they are losing money then the industry has very little future. If they are making money then why don't we have more of them to give jockeys, trainers, owners and horses more opportunities?

And if these low grade meetings are hardly making any money how can we justify $40m of all weather tracks. I presume most of the meetings held on them will be for low grade $10,000 races. Has NZTR actually come out and indicated what their intentions are with these all weather tracks? How many months of the year will they be raced on, and can we expect to see group races and major meetings held on them?

My understanding is that Nz racing doesn't come within a bull's roar of breaking even,  much less 'make a profit' .

Pokies,  sports betting and overseas racing are all required to plug the hole in the bucket.

I should think that the smaller stakes are less damaging to the overall balance sheet...others may have more specific information. 

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2 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

What we really need to know is whether a "typical" low grade meeting with $80,000 - $90,000 in stakes actually breaks even or makes a small profit. If they are losing money then the industry has very little future. If they are making money then why don't we have more of them to give jockeys, trainers, owners and horses more opportunities?

They are losing heaps based just on the betting revenue from those races. More on higher stakes meetings. 15 years ago they pretty much paid their way.

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I have a small share in a three times winning R67 sprinting mare racing in Canterbury. Because there are no R 70 or R72 races being programmed she can only race in Open entry sprints. Last start she ran a creditable fourth in such a race. The winner was winning his 10th race and was rated at 93. The second horse was rated at 80. Having to run horses of this type in open races is like putting a lightweight boxer in the ring with a heavyweight. You are on a hiding to nothing.

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1 hour ago, We're Doomed said:

One thing I have been wondering about is why no 66s or 67s are racing in a 65 benchmark race. I presume they are still allowed to do this. A 4kg claimer would make them competitive.

A horse rated above 65 with more than 1 win can't run in them. I believe it's to keep the 65s a little bit clearer, because they're often full.


On the main topic, some of these lower rated horses are actually winning though? Take Matamata yesterday, for example. 5 open entry races. One was actually split into a R71 so I won't count that. The remaining four were won by horses with the ratings 75, 71, 84, and 73. The highest amount of points given out for a win of those was 6 (New York Jazz), so maybe 1 more than usual for a saturday race. At Gore on Friday a R58(!) horse won a R90 and received 4 points etc etc etc.

There are most certainly examples of R67-72 horses not being up to the big boys, it's far from a perfect system. But not every single one such as this thread would suggest. There is actually a R70 race at Rotorua this week, so who knows why there isn't a few more.

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15 hours ago, Leggy said:

They are losing heaps based just on the betting revenue from those races. More on higher stakes meetings. 15 years ago they pretty much paid their way.

Is Bernard leading us blindly down the garden path again. On Saturday morning he was very upbeat about the the turn overs being so good. Where are they hiding the turn over figures these days. We should be able to see these and the splits between Fixed Odds and tote and Bernard should be able to tell us the profit from these turn overs each week. The TAB is selling bets but are they making any money now that they have forced  a lot of bettors to the minimal margins of Fixed Odds. At the moment it is like a sheep farmer saying how great his wool clip is but he is selling it for less than the cost of production. So no profit. This could explain why there is no stake money shown for races after the end of September. 

I also notice for the races at New Plymouth on Friday no stake money shown for the Open Entry races. This is pathetic. How is a Trainer suppose to enter a horse with the Stake money advertised as $0 

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