RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
barryb

Jumps Racing

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On 7/19/2020 at 3:14 PM, rdytdy said:

 

Tallyho Twinkletoe…...what a jumper!!!  

8 hurdle starts now...7 wins and unbeaten in two steeplechase starts.

Great finish.  

If that doesn't excite you Barry, nothing will.

What happened in this race because I went to watch it on the NSW TAB site but the race has been removed. Never seen this before. 

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On 7/19/2020 at 10:16 AM, Boss Hogg said:

Hi Barry thanks for bringing the subject up, I rearly back jumpers but thought Kuru's ride on Wagner was poor judgement .Wagner was nackered before the turn running mainly in the rear ,making no ground at all and loosing more ground on the turn Kuru pushed the horse who was exhausted into the fence ,Wagner could hardly rise to the fence and sadly was put down .  Kuru went on to win a couple of races and as Rodley [ the most boring person on Trackside] keeps telling us the best jumps jockey ever ,  really I doubt it.  CheersBH       Sorry I was wrong one of the 3 most boring people on Trackside

If thats the way it happened then its a devastating indictment on jumping racing. To Baz and several others lets cut out the flowery language against animal activists and Greens. These people are generally genuine and see the bigger picture long term. Its absolutely stupid showing on TV an exhausted horse falling at the last fence and therefore  detrimentally affecting racing over the flat.

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1 hour ago, slam dunk said:

If thats the way it happened then its a devastating indictment on jumping racing. To Baz and several others lets cut out the flowery language against animal activists and Greens. These people are generally genuine and see the bigger picture long term. Its absolutely stupid showing on TV an exhausted horse falling at the last fence and therefore  detrimentally affecting racing over the flat.

I was more concerned watching the exhausted Chiefs falling at the last on Sunday not too far from Te Rapa. 😩 Maybe we should BAN Rugby..it's just too cruel to some players!
 

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On ‎07‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 10:16 AM, Boss Hogg said:

Hi Barry thanks for bringing the subject up, I rearly back jumpers but thought Kuru's ride on Wagner was poor judgement .Wagner was nackered before the turn running mainly in the rear ,making no ground at all and loosing more ground on the turn Kuru pushed the horse who was exhausted into the fence ,Wagner could hardly rise to the fence and sadly was put down .  Kuru went on to win a couple of races and as Rodley [ the most boring person on Trackside] keeps telling us the best jumps jockey ever ,  really I doubt it.  CheersBH       Sorry I was wrong one of the 3 most boring people on Trackside

Just went and looked at what you said here and it is absolute garbage.

I suggest you go and take a good look from the 600m. Wagner was last and by the 400m had run past the stablemates Good Vibes and Pavlichenko. You state he could hardly rise at the fence. He cleared the bloody thing and it was after landing his back legs went from under him.

It was not Aaron Kuru's poor judgement as you have written but poor judgement on your part to what actually happened.

Pretty much similar to the initial post that started this thread, opinion instead of fact.  

 

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4 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

Just went and looked at what you said here and it is absolute garbage.

I suggest you go and take a good look from the 600m. Wagner was last and by the 400m had run past the stablemates Good Vibes and Pavlichenko. You state he could hardly rise at the fence. He cleared the bloody thing and it was after landing his back legs went from under him.

It was not Aaron Kuru's poor judgement as you have written but poor judgement on your part to what actually happened.

Pretty much similar to the initial post that started this thread, opinion instead of fact.  

 

Some of these poster's here should go make a love child with that fuckwit Aaron Cross...who knows it could grow up to be a politician for the Green Party and preach more FAKE NEWS!

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4 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

Pretty much similar to the initial post that started this thread, opinion instead of fact.  

 

Rich, coming from the guy whom posts the biggest load of cock on this site under the general forum.

I doubt you are capable of debate as you post like you fail to understand differing opinion.

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1 minute ago, barryb said:

Rich, coming from the guy whom posts the biggest load of cock on this site under the general forum.

I doubt you are capable of debate as you post like you fail to understand differing opinion.

The next thing we'll hear from this lot is.... CLIMATE CHANGE IS MAN MADE and can be changed and controlled by us immortals. 🙈 :lol:

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1 hour ago, barryb said:

 

I doubt you are capable of debate as you post like you fail to understand differing opinion.

 

Posted yesterday at 07:46 AM

After attending Te Rapa yesterday & witnessing 5 jumps races, reading the stripes report and seeing 2 unnecessary fallers, it’s time this had some serious focus in a few areas.

1) The number of comments about persisting with a beaten horse is unacceptable from a welfare point of view.

2) Which fences do horses fall at? I think it’s obvious that it’s the first fence in the home straight. Like Aus they should be gone.

3) Does it stack up financially?  The pool sizes suggest not, these races are nice to have but are avoided by punters.

4) The look & condition of the fences is from the 1980s, it has a half arsed she’ll be right look.

In the midst of the worst economic crisis in a century & racings social licence under threat we can’t afford to ignore some of the glaring deficiencies around jumps racing. It has a place & I am a big supporter of it but it needs a complete refresh if it’s going to survive. 

I responded:

Firstly let's look at things in perspective Barry.  5 jumps races with 52 horses engaged and 3 fallers in total. 1 other knuckled over after jumping the fence and dropped the rider.  

1)  Only two riders were spoken to with regard to consideration to retiring their mount when out of contention. 8 horses were actually retired out of the race by riders.

2)   The 3 horses that actually fell yesterday were all at different fences. In the hurdles one at the third last (top of the straight) and one at the second last. In the steeplechase there is only one fence in the straight with one falling and another as previously mentioned dropping the rider.

4)  I think you need to go back and take a long look at fences in the 80's. Nothing like we have now.

 

Which facts do you want to debate?

With regard your comments regarding 2. "Which fences do horses fall at? I think it's obvious that it is the first fence in the home straight. Like Aussie they should be gone."

Can you provide evidence that this is obvious? Thanks.

To save you some time I have looked at the six Te Aroha jumping meetings last year and there were no fallers at the first fence in the straight. (third last)

Are you able to also confirm that there are no fences in the straights in Aussie? My eyes must have been playing tricks on me yesterday.  

With regard to comparing the fences in the 80s to now, the fences are far superior and safer than then. If you come along to one of our jumps days come and see me and I will take you out and show you how good they are. Better still, why not come out the day prior when we are setting them up and you can give a hand and get a really good feel for them.  :)   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1) 3 riders were spoken too.

2) Opinion from me, but logic tells you that fatigued horses fall under pressure.

3) No response from you, despite my reference to a Pakenham maiden taking more investment.

I was surprised to see jumps in the last 600 at Pakenham, maybe it’s a voluntary club situation. Sundown & Warrnambool have removed them.

4) Happy you proved me wrong, however doesn’t mean they can’t be improved on.

Thats the whole point of the thread Ted to create open debate on a subject that can galvanise opinions. I am hugely in favour of jumps racing & the opportunity presents currently to makes changes for the better whilst there is a mood for change but that window is closing..


 

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I'm a huge jumps fan too, I've loved it for years - the bright spot on an otherwise murky winter's day - and have my own jumper in training.  He has had to be relocated to the Myers operation, as jumping has been scuttled down here for the moment [ and possibly permanently ]  which is sad but inevitable I feel, given the lack of support in recent years.

This discussion is a very pertinent one, and to see it degenerating into a personal attack on a poster, as well as the well-meaning if somewhat misguided protesters is a pity.

They need educating for sure,  but to ignore their impact is very foolish.

I'm not going to get into a slanging match about this track or that, but one famous UK racemeet that gets a huge amount of publicity is the Grand National.  Very tired horses for sure, but a very long run-in and at least they don't have to tip up in front of the public.  And UK management has heeded the call for more safety, and the National fences have been modified hugely since earlier times.

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1 minute ago, Pam Robson said:

I'm a huge jumps fan too, I've loved it for years - the bright spot on an otherwise murky winter's day - and have my own jumper in training.  He has had to be relocated to the Myers operation, as jumping has been scuttled down here for the moment [ and possibly permanently ]  which is sad but inevitable I feel, given the lack of support in recent years.

This discussion is a very pertinent one, and to see it degenerating into a personal attack on a poster, as well as the well-meaning if somewhat misguided protesters is a pity.

They need educating for sure,  but to ignore their impact is very foolish.

I'm not going to get into a slanging match about this track or that, but one famous UK racemeet that gets a huge amount of publicity is the Grand National.  Very tired horses for sure, but a very long run-in and at least they don't have to tip up in front of the public.  And UK management has heeded the call for more safety, and the National fences have been modified hugely since earlier times.

I enjoy the jumping over here though I've always been more of a fan of the Flat.

The National is still the #1 for betting turnover and it's a better race in many ways.

My only problem is that I was told once "speed kills" - getting horses to go faster over jumps seems to cause more fatal falls than when a tired one goes down in a bog - winded but they get up. 

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1 hour ago, stodge said:

I enjoy the jumping over here though I've always been more of a fan of the Flat.

The National is still the #1 for betting turnover and it's a better race in many ways.

My only problem is that I was told once "speed kills" - getting horses to go faster over jumps seems to cause more fatal falls than when a tired one goes down in a bog - winded but they get up. 

Yes, that was an issue with the animal rights activists in Aus wanting the fences to be smaller.   Crazy, a helter- skelter just setting horses up to make bad mistakes. 

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Raising jumping weights was one positive - IMO - heavier and stronger riders at least countered the breakneck speed culture to some degree.

I'm sorry, but I don't share the adulation of some riders here by many...most would struggle to get rides in the UK/ Ireland although courage and enthusiasm not in question. 

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11 hours ago, rdytdy said:

Just went and looked at what you said here and it is absolute garbage.

I suggest you go and take a good look from the 600m. Wagner was last and by the 400m had run past the stablemates Good Vibes and Pavlichenko. You state he could hardly rise at the fence. He cleared the bloody thing and it was after landing his back legs went from under him.

It was not Aaron Kuru's poor judgement as you have written but poor judgement on your part to what actually happened.

Pretty much similar to the initial post that started this thread, opinion instead of fact.  

 

Hi Ted  Aaron Kuru was the only jockey whiping his horse coming around the turn ,Wagner's back leg hit the fence . I know they make split second decisions but feel Kuru could have pulled out by the turn and lived to fight another day, like other jockeys did in the jumps races . I respectively stick to my opinion for what I seen  .CheersBH

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11 hours ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Some of these poster's here should go make a love child with that fuckwit Aaron Cross...who knows it could grow up to be a politician for the Green Party and preach more FAKE NEWS!

Hi Baz   Gee that was an intelligent post ,when you have a different view on jumps races you get attacked  .As for being Green  I'm 105 kilo's ,shaved head, drive a 255kw black  V8 Holden ,drink Speights and listen to ACDC, still one of the last to leave a party ,If I ever get an invite   so if that is what a being a Green Party person is I'm  in .Cheers BH

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21 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Hi Ted  Aaron Kuru was the only jockey whiping his horse coming around the turn ,Wagner's back leg hit the fence . I know they make split second decisions but feel Kuru could have pulled out by the turn and lived to fight another day, like other jockeys did in the jumps races . I respectively stick to my opinion for what I seen  .CheersBH

I had I look , I was critical of the fall then back on ride last year I think it was , I thought the horse  fell and should have been pulled up as required in UK or Ireland ,  the horse was deemed not to have fell and that was that . So I am not fan boy of the jock in question although I think he's pretty good . On this occasion I reckon the horse travelled OK down the back , he tried to move him up going into the turn maybe tapped for bit of toe at that point as they quickened then had a couple cracks  and was a show of place at that point when he fell , he looked to have caught his hind legs , again only my opinion from a buffering screen the horse didn't look exhausted  and I've seen some out on their feet over the years and they normally clamber over in slow motion or crumple on landing .Not a great sight    . I've only had a couple of looks and it was plagued by the bloody buffering on NZTR site but my thoughts for what it's worth BH , a sad incident none the less .

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35 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

I had I look , I was critical of the fall then back on ride last year I think it was , I thought the horse  fell and should have been pulled up as required in UK or Ireland ,  the horse was deemed not to have fell and that was that . So I am not fan boy of the jock in question although I think he's pretty good . On this occasion I reckon the horse travelled OK down the back , he tried to move him up going into the turn maybe tapped for bit of toe at that point as they quickened then had a couple cracks  and was a show of place at that point when he fell , he looked to have caught his hind legs , again only my opinion from a buffering screen the horse didn't look exhausted  and I've seen some out on their feet over the years and they normally clamber over in slow motion or crumple on landing .Not a great sight    . I've only had a couple of looks and it was plagued by the bloody buffering on NZTR site but my thoughts for what it's worth BH , a sad incident none the less .

I blew up the picture and slowed it right down to see.

Wagners right hind hit the fence & was still stretched fully out behind it on landing.

 

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We lost a horse raceday morning on New Years day. Fireworks going off New Years Eve! Do we ban everything that causes unfortunate accidents. Shit happens and accidents happen daily in every aspects of life... Sadly😢

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37 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:

We lost a horse raceday morning on New Years day. Fireworks going off New Years Eve! Do we ban everything that causes unfortunate accidents. Shit happens and accidents happen daily in every aspects of life... Sadly😢

I think you have totally missread things here Baz, no one is saying ban anything. It needs a bit of focus in a few areas to ensure its survival, there is a mood for change right now and racing needs to take advantage of it. NZTR could get a group together to investigate what could be improved on, whats gone wrong down south and so on. 

 

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1 hour ago, barryb said:

I think you have totally missread things here Baz, no one is saying ban anything. It needs a bit of focus in a few areas to ensure its survival, there is a mood for change right now and racing needs to take advantage of it. NZTR could get a group together to investigate what could be improved on, whats gone wrong down south and so on. 

 

Agree with you in this regard. However these animal activists are crying to ban horse racing full stop. How far do we as an industry take these measures to appease these ill-informed minority groups? When in the scheme of things it's a very very small percentage we are talking about in the racing game. All particpants want nothing less but the best welfare for their animals.
I'm guessing the S.P.C.A euthanise between 20,000 - 30,000 animals per year? Compare that to the amount of racehorses euthanised racedays! 

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9 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:

Agree with you in this regard. However these animal activists are crying to ban horse racing full stop. How far do we as an industry take these measures to appease these ill-informed minority groups? When in the scheme of things it's a very very small percentage we are talking about in the racing game. All particpants want nothing less but the best welfare for their animals.
I'm guessing the S.P.C.A euthanise between 20,000 - 30,000 animals per year? Compare that to the amount of racehorses euthanised 

To play Devils advocate a few don't get back to track after raceday maybe not shown on stats but see where you coming from . Horse Race Ireland produce a weekly list over there , check their last runs . A lot fall, a lot pull up then back home and the end .But in scheme of life racing pretty decent .

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