barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 18, 2020 After attending Te Rapa yesterday & witnessing 5 jumps races, reading the stripes report and seeing 2 unnecessary fallers, it’s time this had some serious focus in a few areas. 1) The number of comments about persisting with a beaten horse is unacceptable from a welfare point of view. 2) Which fences do horses fall at? I think it’s obvious that it’s the first fence in the home straight. Like Aus they should be gone. 3) Does it stack up financially? The pool sizes suggest not, these races are nice to have but are avoided by punters. 4) The look & condition of the fences is from the 1980s, it has a half arsed she’ll be right look. In the midst of the worst economic crisis in a century & racings social licence under threat we can’t afford to ignore some of the glaring deficiencies around jumps racing. It has a place & I am a big supporter of it but it needs a complete refresh if it’s going to survive. mckenzie, chevy86, Insider and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,536 Report post Posted July 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, barryb said: After attending Te Rapa yesterday & witnessing 5 jumps races, reading the stripes report and seeing 2 unnecessary fallers, it’s time this had some serious focus in a few areas. 1) The number of comments about persisting with a beaten horse is unacceptable from a welfare point of view. 2) Which fences do horses fall at? I think it’s obvious that it’s the first fence in the home straight. Like Aus they should be gone. 3) Does it stack up financially? The pool sizes suggest not, these races are nice to have but are avoided by punters. 4) The look & condition of the fences is from the 1980s, it has a half arsed she’ll be right look. In the midst of the worst economic crisis in a century & racings social licence under threat we can’t afford to ignore some of the glaring deficiencies around jumps racing. It has a place & I am a big supporter of it but it needs a complete refresh if it’s going to survive. Agree, esp about the last fence. Watching tired horses hunted into an obstacle is not a good look. It has also long been a concern of mine how riders will persist with a horse severely under pressure, risking accident /injury - to both parties. The new hurdles you highlighted are a good start, just look how the UK jumps scene still remains relevant and hugely popular. Leggy, barryb and dock leaf 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pam Robson said: It has also long been a concern of mine how riders will persist with a horse severely under pressure, risking accident /injury - to both parties. Look at race 1 & 2 from yesterday for clear evidence of this, both fallers not going to be top 5 & Wagner euthanised as a result. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 18, 2020 The other question is should horses whom fall or get pulled up still get the $300?. Is this really any different to a horse that stands in the barrier and fails to take any part in the race and canters to the line? One gets the $300 and one doesn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdytdy 5,335 Report post Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, barryb said: After attending Te Rapa yesterday & witnessing 5 jumps races, reading the stripes report and seeing 2 unnecessary fallers, it’s time this had some serious focus in a few areas. 1) The number of comments about persisting with a beaten horse is unacceptable from a welfare point of view. 2) Which fences do horses fall at? I think it’s obvious that it’s the first fence in the home straight. Like Aus they should be gone. 3) Does it stack up financially? The pool sizes suggest not, these races are nice to have but are avoided by punters. 4) The look & condition of the fences is from the 1980s, it has a half arsed she’ll be right look. In the midst of the worst economic crisis in a century & racings social licence under threat we can’t afford to ignore some of the glaring deficiencies around jumps racing. It has a place & I am a big supporter of it but it needs a complete refresh if it’s going to survive. Firstly let's look at things in perspective Barry. 5 jumps races with 52 horses engaged and 3 fallers in total. 1 other knuckled over after jumping the fence and dropped the rider. 1) Only two riders were spoken to with regard to consideration to retiring their mount when out of contention. 8 horses were actually retired out of the race by riders. 2) The 3 horses that actually fell yesterday were all at different fences. In the hurdles one at the third last (top of the straight) and one at the second last. In the steeplechase there is only one fence in the straight with one falling and another as previously mentioned dropping the rider. 4) I think you need to go back and take a long look at fences in the 80's. Nothing like we have now. Personally I enjoy the jumping races, they are a test of stamina and skill for both horse and rider and they certainly provide an opportunity for horses that may be finding it tough to win on the flat. Jumps racing can provide huge excitement with great finishes and there is nothing more exhilarating seeing a great jumper in action soaring over the fences. shaneMcAlister, Baz (NZ), napier and 5 others 8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted July 18, 2020 Is it just me or does Gallante look to have had enough , he has done a few favours to few owners over the years not sure he needs sending round anymore at the back of field in mud risking injury . Maybe needs plenty of fitting nowdays but hung out last two runs . nomates and Memphis2 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Hogg 320 Report post Posted July 18, 2020 Hi Barry thanks for bringing the subject up, I rearly back jumpers but thought Kuru's ride on Wagner was poor judgement .Wagner was nackered before the turn running mainly in the rear ,making no ground at all and loosing more ground on the turn Kuru pushed the horse who was exhausted into the fence ,Wagner could hardly rise to the fence and sadly was put down . Kuru went on to win a couple of races and as Rodley [ the most boring person on Trackside] keeps telling us the best jumps jockey ever , really I doubt it. CheersBH Sorry I was wrong one of the 3 most boring people on Trackside barryb, hedley, nomates and 3 others 5 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, rdytdy said: Firstly let's look at things in perspective Barry. 5 jumps races with 52 horses engaged and 3 fallers in total. 1 other knuckled over after jumping the fence and dropped the rider. 1) Only two riders were spoken to with regard to consideration to retiring their mount when out of contention. 8 horses were actually retired out of the race by riders. 2) The 3 horses that actually fell yesterday were all at different fences. In the hurdles one at the third last (top of the straight) and one at the second last. In the steeplechase there is only one fence in the straight with one falling and another as previously mentioned dropping the rider. 4) I think you need to go back and take a long look at fences in the 80's. Nothing like we have now. Personally I enjoy the jumping races, they are a test of stamina and skill for both horse and rider and they certainly provide an opportunity for horses that may be finding it tough to win on the flat. Jumps racing can provide huge excitement with great finishes and there is nothing more exhilarating seeing a great jumper in action soaring over the fences. If those 5 races were to screen on One News tonight Ted, what do you think the outcome would be?. Needs to be able to stand up to public scrutiny. slam dunk, Trump and Dissident 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted July 18, 2020 Jumps Race Jockeys should not be allowed to carry whips. That would be a start. drewandjo 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Bidlake 759 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Trump said: Jumps Race Jockeys should not be allowed to carry whips. That would be a start. Why? Patiti 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdytdy 5,335 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 Can't wait to watch R4 at Pakenham today. Aaron Bidlake 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Bidlake 759 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, rdytdy said: Can't wait to watch R4 at Pakenham today. And the 6th, flying agent V Michelin should be a ripper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdytdy 5,335 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, rdytdy said: Can't wait to watch R4 at Pakenham today. Tallyho Twinkletoe…...what a jumper!!! 8 hurdle starts now...7 wins and unbeaten in two steeplechase starts. Great finish. If that doesn't excite you Barry, nothing will. Aaron Bidlake and Memphis2 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beecee 30 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 Jumps racing today in Victoria was outstanding and why... WE provided the product and thanks to ex kiwi Paddy Payne who trained them, sorry know there are others trying too...... Plenty more here to come over and make the jumping scene very very viable.... Get a quote from Shaurna or Sue from EIAF.com to get your horses over.... No Brainer... You can balance your books in Aussie... No chance in NZ at present... Cheers, BC. Pam Robson and Baz (NZ) 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz (NZ) 1,719 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 11 hours ago, barryb said: After attending Te Rapa yesterday & witnessing 5 jumps races, reading the stripes report and seeing 2 unnecessary fallers, it’s time this had some serious focus in a few areas. 1) The number of comments about persisting with a beaten horse is unacceptable from a welfare point of view. 2) Which fences do horses fall at? I think it’s obvious that it’s the first fence in the home straight. Like Aus they should be gone. 3) Does it stack up financially? The pool sizes suggest not, these races are nice to have but are avoided by punters. 4) The look & condition of the fences is from the 1980s, it has a half arsed she’ll be right look. In the midst of the worst economic crisis in a century & racings social licence under threat we can’t afford to ignore some of the glaring deficiencies around jumps racing. It has a place & I am a big supporter of it but it needs a complete refresh if it’s going to survive. It's the middle of winter and I enjoy jumps racing particularly the good jumpers in the bigger better fields. Much prefer watching the jumpers going round for a few winter months than the same old 30 start Maidens walking around the track week in week out on a Heavy11. 1.) The majority of sensible riders do not persevere with horses who have obviously run their race. The ones that do need to be spoken to by officials in that case. Can of worms? 2.) Again this comes back to a rider making a decision if a horse is well beaten or not...nothing to do with the fence position? Can of worms? 3.) Possibly not...but neither do 6 & 7 flat horse fields on a Heavy11 in the middle of winter . 4.) If its a welfare issue you're worried about then the 1980's certainly isn't what we have now! Those Big Wood Batten (No Padding) fences back then did not forgive the smallest error from horse or rider. rdytdy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Baz (NZ) said: It's the middle of winter and I enjoy jumps racing particularly the good jumpers in the bigger better fields. Much prefer watching the jumpers going round for a few winter months than the same old 30 start Maidens walking around the track week in week out on a Heavy11. 1.) The majority of sensible riders do not persevere with horses who have obviously run their race. The ones that do need to be spoken to by officials in that case. Can of worms? 2.) Again this comes back to a rider making a decision if a horse is well beaten or not...nothing to do with the fence position? Can of worms? 3.) Possibly not...but neither do 6 & 7 flat horse fields on a Heavy11 in the middle of winter . 4.) If its a welfare issue you're worried about then the 1980's certainly isn't what we have now! Those Big Wood Batten (No Padding) fences back then did not forgive the smallest error from horse or rider. I am not worried about any of it Baz, my concern is that it hasnt been under any scrutiny that I can put my hands on that asks some of the tough questions. The world has changed mate in a short space of time & racing needs to be bloody mindful that sensitivities are going to be even stronger in a post Covid world. For example look at how half the country has been talking about Rodney the Cat that got dumped from ITM Marton nearly a month ago, the guy responsible lost his job, 10 yrs ago no one would have cared less. If NZTR is comfortable that hand on heart its done everything possible to minimise injury & that it stands up to public scrutiny then thats fine. Pam Robson 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 6 hours ago, rdytdy said: Tallyho Twinkletoe…...what a jumper!!! 8 hurdle starts now...7 wins and unbeaten in two steeplechase starts. Great finish. If that doesn't excite you Barry, nothing will. Clearly didn't excite many from a punting side of things Ted, the Dressler Hurdle & main Steeple race were significantly smaller in turnover than the first on the flat, race 7 a 10 horse maiden. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdytdy 5,335 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, barryb said: Clearly didn't excite many from a punting side of things Ted, the Dressler Hurdle & main Steeple race were significantly smaller in turnover than the first on the flat, race 7 a 10 horse maiden. I made no mention of a punting Barry. The spectacle of an outstanding jumper and the excitement of an extremely close finish was all there for those who watched. Memphis2 and pogo(aus) 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb 2,062 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, rdytdy said: I made no mention of a punting Barry. The spectacle of an outstanding jumper and the excitement of an extremely close finish was all there for those who watched. Unfortunately Ted it’s not enticing people to part with there bucks, that’s the purpose of it isn’t it? Or do we just accept in a real tough economic climate that there will be non performing events like this or try something different, maybe you could argue that jumps racing brings big crowds and they bet on other events. Does jumps racing deserve more centre stage here than it gets? It gets some attention in Vic but it’s not allowed Saturday focus & without Kiwi interest it would be largely a non event. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz (NZ) 1,719 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, barryb said: I am not worried about any of it Baz, my concern is that it hasnt been under any scrutiny that I can put my hands on that asks some of the tough questions. The world has changed mate in a short space of time & racing needs to be bloody mindful that sensitivities are going to be even stronger in a post Covid world. For example look at how half the country has been talking about Rodney the Cat that got dumped from ITM Marton nearly a month ago, the guy responsible lost his job, 10 yrs ago no one would have cared less. If NZTR is comfortable that hand on heart its done everything possible to minimise injury & that it stands up to public scrutiny then thats fine. We must not give in to these minority do gooding bastards who have nothing better to do in their miserable lives but try to wreck the lives others! Why don't they target the average pet owner, dog fighting rings or even the S.P.C.A who mistreat, harm and destroy more animals in the world than racing ever could. I don't do bullshit from these hairy arm pitted, hippie, green party voting animal welfare activists types ... who aim their sights at the easy targets like racing for media attention! I.E. that Fuckwit Aaron Cross! You wouldn't get a bigger animal lover than myself and I don't mean rooting sheep! 99% of the NZ Thoroughbred Racing Fraternity I would guarantee treat and care for their animals as well or better than they do themselves and better than the average pet owner. FACTS suggest this crap gets blown way out of proportion by the fact-less minority I mentioned who run to the media then give these wankers air! FAKE NEWS IS ALIVE & WELL In saying this we should not rest on our laurels and should always be looking to improve the safety of man and beast! This does not include BANNING IT ! pogo(aus), Aaron Bidlake, nomates and 3 others 5 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo(aus) 825 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 Rooting sheep .....LMFAO baz(nz) funniest post ever. Tallhyo Tinkletoes NZ (sic) Zelda loves that horse nearly as much as she loves Shaun Johnson ( NZ) rdytdy, Insider and Baz (NZ) 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 10 hours ago, Baz (NZ) said: We must not give in to these minority do gooding bastards who have nothing better to do in their miserable lives but try to wreck the lives others! Why don't they target the average pet owner, dog fighting rings or even the S.P.C.A who mistreat, harm and destroy more animals in the world than racing ever could. I don't do bullshit from these hairy arm pitted, hippie, green party voting animal welfare activists types ... who aim their sights at the easy targets like racing for media attention! I.E. that Fuckwit Aaron Cross! You wouldn't get a bigger animal lover than myself and I don't mean rooting sheep! 99% of the NZ Thoroughbred Racing Fraternity I would guarantee treat and care for their animals as well or better than they do themselves and better than the average pet owner. FACTS suggest this crap gets blown way out of proportion by the fact-less minority I mentioned who run to the media then give these wankers air! FAKE NEWS IS ALIVE & WELL In saying this we should not rest on our laurels and should always be looking to improve the safety of man and beast! This does not include BANNING IT ! Tell us how you really feel Baz! Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz (NZ) 1,719 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 Some of our suits need to stand up and push back at these idiots with a counter argument! Start with figures and facts from other outfits. Example...How many animals are killed by the S.P.C.A per year ? napier and Dissident 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump 2,741 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 It’s a sign of the times Baz. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz (NZ) 1,719 Report post Posted July 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Trump said: It’s a sign of the times Baz. Only if we are too weak to push back! Hit them with facts! They'd better ban motor vehicles because they kill more animals and humans on our roads than anyone on a racetrack! Insider and napier 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...