RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Whyisit

Stratford pulls the plug.

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42 minutes ago, Stables said:

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

Yes, and It has been "said that the love of money is the root of all evil. The want of money is so quite as truly."

Samuel Butler

Mikie

 

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6 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

Thanks,  Stodge,  that has been my thought too, when similar has been mooted before.  NZTR could/would penalise heavily any licensed personnel,  and could also place a ban on horses competing at such fixtures.  It couldn't work under our current structure.

Thats what they told Kerry Packer and look what happened. One day cricket was born.  If China was serious about horse racing they could purchase 100 horses have them trained and racing here at rebel meetings before export.

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16 hours ago, Whyisit said:

This situation highlights the shitfest that the governing bodies of NZ racing have set in motion . From the first mention of track closures  , thru to the Messara report , the underlying theme has been about reducing track numbers as we were seen as having too many , and i agree , but somewhere along the line someone upon high get the idea that these facilities actually belong to the industry as a whole . The idea being that the sale of said tracks would give a small pot of gold to the industry . But i keep asking why does the industry need this pot of gold , simply put , Serious Mismanagement .

This pot of gold would fill the glaring hole in the industry funds that has pissed against the wall with as series of ill thought out and poorly managed ideas . The industry bodies have propagated the myth that the cost of maintaining all the tracks we have was a drain on the industry or put another way " sucking the industry dry " . I have yet to get a succinct and clear answer to the one question i and many others keep asking of the those that believe that the industry is being sucked dry , SHOW ME THE FIGURES ? . Even NZTR can produce any numbers to back their claim . They have now withdrawn dates to some clubs under the rouse of them being too expensive for owners to travel their horses to , yet we still have Ruakaka and Riverton with dates , go figure .

We now have an industry that is at odds with itself , clubs having dates withdrawn for daring to stand their ground , others threatening legal action . Avondale back racing with 5 dates for next season by agreeing to a consultation process , but does anyone really believe they are going to relinquish their track and funds . 

My point is that this has all been poorly handled from racings management , they have for many years now treated lesser clubs with contempt , taking previously prime date and highly successful racedays , Stratford's New Years eve meeting was always a successful day for racing as a whole as well as the local community . Why would these lesser clubs ever feel like they belonged to one big happy industry , yet are now are be told for the betterment of their industry they should relinquish their assets . 

This all could have been managed a lot more professionally and still can . I favour all raceday venue tracks being given a set of KPI's that they must maintain to remain a viable . No if's or but's , no maybe's , you fail to fulfill the brief your gone . Obviously some of the KPI's would be the obvious such as track standard , turnovers and facilities . What all the KPI's would be is for others to decide , but , they must cover all tracks , no discrimination . My only worry there is , having seen the state of some tracks of our bigger clubs since resumption , would they be up to standard . I'm sure others have ideas that could solve these issues , but simply putting a gun to a clubs head isn't the solve .

They say " for the betterment of the whole industry ", then the whole industry needs to be part of the solution and work together to find a solution . Not just bully , these clubs have a history that is part of our racing fabric and they should treated with such disdain .

If  MR B SAUNDRY isn't telling pork pies and that this is not about the "money " , then this should be easier to solve than the industry turning on each other .

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4 hours ago, Trump said:

Why is the Govt involved in anything to do with racing anyway? Who runs the All Blacks? Formula 1 ? FIFA? NRL? AFL? Yet you can have a multiple of bets on all of them! FFS, Racing is the only sport named above that has a “Racing Minister” and has a Racing Act of Parliament. Why is there no All Blacks Act? America’s Cup Act? Hockey Act? Etc etc. Horse Racing should be set up and run by Racing People with govt having nothing to do with it. They fuck up everything they put their grubby fingers into. Racing only needs itself. It can utilise/facilitate offshore betting for a fee - and govt have nothing to do with it! 

Because for a very long time the only sport you could bet on was racing and the government loved to clip the ticket in the form of tax.

If they could tax the major revenue sources of the other sports at the point of consumption, I believe they would.

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4 hours ago, Trump said:

Why is the Govt involved in anything to do with racing anyway? Who runs the All Blacks? Formula 1 ? FIFA? NRL? AFL? Yet you can have a multiple of bets on all of them! FFS, Racing is the only sport named above that has a “Racing Minister” and has a Racing Act of Parliament. Why is there no All Blacks Act? America’s Cup Act? Hockey Act? Etc etc. Horse Racing should be set up and run by Racing People with govt having nothing to do with it. They fuck up everything they put their grubby fingers into. Racing only needs itself. It can utilise/facilitate offshore betting for a fee - and govt have nothing to do with it! 

Sports like rugby ,in fact most sports in NZ come under a crown entity called Sport NZ which receives significant funding and there is a Minister of Sport.Currently he other things like Minister of Finance and deputy PM.

You a bit tough on out Govt ,who have historically treated Racing as 'special' ,a unique part of NZ culture and community.Of course the tax take has had special interest to them ,along with the jobs and the international recognition. 

But not now.....other than Winston the current politicians care little about racing ,in fact some despise it.The racing industry blames the run of poor Ministers while these poor ministers are frankly amazed that racing has constantly shot itself in foot even though it has been in serious decline for well over 30 years.

NZ racing has resisted change etc etc ....I guess when the Govt needed to bail us out for $72.5 mil recently , their position somewhat vindicated.

Meanwhile Racing is still often in headlines for wrong reason , Inca simmers away , Messara report largely ignored , Clubs threaten to go to court [again] .

Even in your beloved Aussie  ,the government often is called in to bail out or boost the Industry which of course is massively bigger and more loved.

Plus the grubby little fingers seemed to have handled Co-vid issue to many folks satisfaction .

You will be pleased that your club has been prudent with its investments and club affairs .......if you contributed hugely to that ,well done.

Ellerslie seemed to be able to progress in many areas when most others have faltered !

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Thats a bit tough on other politicians having no interest in Racing. It has been said that Oppositions Andrew Bayly and Ian McKelvie made a big input into the new Racing Bill to get it fit for purpose. Was cynically said probably more votes to do that than oppose it. Thats a bitt OTT as both have a good interest in Racing.

But at pre Winston we have had some hopeless buggers and Bill English had a hatred of gambling, thus Racing and thats another reason that Winston would not promote English to another term.

Its a time of change isn't it!

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4 hours ago, Blue said:

So if Pike, Latta, Baker, Richards had horses running and twenty or thirty jockeys riding there you reckon NZTR would put a ban on them? Don't think so. On the other hand, if they had the wherewithall to put up stakes either from their own coffers or through sponsorship, could they run an equalisator meeting? Winners probably couldn't/wouldn't be penalised and betting money would be ALL theirs, no tote or TAB rake-off so the result might be quite tidy. I'm sure they'd be well supported if only for the fact that they've stood their ground Just a thought.

You have to be a registered club and have a betting licence to run an equalisator meeting.

 

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2 hours ago, Mikie said:

So what are you doing about the bigger issues Tasman Man?

Anything? 

To me Bernard is telling porkies

If 'he' had no interest in the value of the land he would have just said 'we have no interest so whatever the Committee wishes to do is no skin off our nose'

The fact that he felt compelled to add "that he thought what they had done wouldn't protect then (sic)' gives credence to the apparent porky

Mikie

I sense a bit of aggro there Mikie , us Tasman men should be more collaborative but NZ racing just ain't like that !

Even tho an enthusiastic , unlike you an Industry bigwig , I think I am doing my bit.

I try to spread the love re NZ racing........pay my bills to a few trainers and syndicates , and regularly attend meetings.A small bettor ,since lockdown I have increased my bets by 5 x times as I aware betting on NZ TAB is the lifeblood of the Industry.

I think I do my bit...more than the average NZ racing follower .....though I stopped the bleeding just last week on my 'breeding' career.

My breeding and partner and I sold our mare for $600.......she was carrying a $15k service fee and had four winners from 4 foals at races. One other died so she bred no complete duds.

And what are you doing ,other than posting aggressively on social media ?

You and those close to you have been big players in Racing during the steep decline of the industry over the past 30 years.....I sit and watch the train wreck you have been an influence on.Like many you seem to long for the good old days , resistance to change........why encourage the like of Stratford and Avondale to go to court to thwart the Industry [again !! as they have done previous to resist  change ]

Methinks some racing people have been so close to the Industry they can't see the train wreck !

Its kinda sad !

With your experience you should start with a clean sheet on how the Industry should progress to give it some hope of survival.....accept change is necessary.

Sadly your club is probably doomed as one that holds TAB meetings in your home town !

100 years.....a good innings !And you had the Ranfurly Shield once !

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1 hour ago, nomates said:

 . I favour all raceday venue tracks being given a set of KPI's that they must maintain to remain a viable . No if's or but's , no maybe's , you fail to fulfill the brief your gone . Obviously some of the KPI's would be the obvious such as track standard , turnovers and facilities . What all the KPI's would be is for others to decide , but , they must cover all tracks , no discrimination . My only worry there is , having seen the state of some tracks of our bigger clubs since resumption , would they be up to standard . I'm sure others have ideas that could solve these issues , but simply putting a gun to a clubs head isn't the solve .

They already have KPI's to meet in order to receive NZTR funding for racedays don't they?

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5 minutes ago, Leggy said:

You have to be a registered club and have a betting licence to run an equalisator meeting.

 

Well then lets try breeze ups. If NZB can do it then so can Stratford. 

Stratford would need an online TV deal and run breeze ups for online auction thus earning commission.

The town get behind the scheme and welcome participants and buyers. A stumbling block could be pedigree catalogs which NZB have a monopoly over. However where there is a will there is a way

 

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14 minutes ago, slam dunk said:

Well then lets try breeze ups. If NZB can do it then so can Stratford. 

Stratford would need an online TV deal and run breeze ups for online auction thus earning commission.

The town get behind the scheme and welcome participants and buyers. A stumbling block could be pedigree catalogs which NZB have a monopoly over. However where there is a will there is a way

 

Not saying the would even want to bother but they can still run a meeting as far as I can see. And offer betting via an overseas operator and contract the racefields and vision rights to them. They can advise the public of that arrangement, just the operator can't advertise here. The challenge might be as noted that NZTR would enact some draconian rule that would deregister/license trainers, jockeys, owners, horses etc. who participate.

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22 minutes ago, Leggy said:

They already have KPI's to meet in order to receive NZTR funding for racedays don't they?

First iv'e heard , if they have that was their tool to use , but that has never been raised as the reason for withdrawal of dates or wanting tracks to close .

Perhaps that is because it might cause issues when some bigger clubs have issues with complying with those KPI's . 

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10 minutes ago, Leggy said:

The challenge might be as noted that NZTR would enact some draconian rule that would deregister/license trainers, jockeys, owners, horses etc. who participate.

And that heavy handed , hamfisted attitude is what has brought the industry to this current position . Some would say a very draconian attitude .

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6 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Come on Trumpy. The Govt and Auckland Council have poured hundreds of millions into the Americas Cup. More than any other sporting event in the country, that sport (if you wish to call it that) wouldn't exist without govt support. Other than Winston's recent handout Racing has never depended on the Govt for its existence. 

The Govt sure have - but they have absolutely nothing to do with running the event or regulating it etc. they support it with $ because it’s good for the economy (supposedly) in much the same way the Comm Games or Olympic Games receive funding. Why is there a Minister for Racing? Why is there a Racing Act? Is there a Rugby Act? 

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Take Levin as an example of a non racing outfit hugely used for jump outs. Its fine for that but not Racing as it  would need untold on facilities.

New Plymouth would be best for racing motorbikes and the futures not it. ideally get rid of all the 'Naki tracks and put a greenfields in at inglewood area. 

Pull together not apart you clowns! Show some vision.

Leave Waverley as it is a sand track and the good old cockies pull their fingers out.

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4 minutes ago, Nerula said:

Take Levin as an example of a non racing outfit hugely used for jump outs. Its fine for that but not Racing as it  would need untold on facilities.

New Plymouth would be best for racing motorbikes and the futures not it. ideally get rid of all the 'Naki tracks and put a greenfields in at inglewood area. 

Pull together not apart you clowns! Show some vision.

Leave Waverley as it is a sand track and the good old cockies pull their fingers out.

Agree, a greenfields track is what Taranaki needs to replace all tracks, but Inglewood is in the rain belt so choosing a suitable site would be problematic.

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2 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

I sense a bit of aggro there Mikie , us Tasman men should be more collaborative but NZ racing just ain't like that !

Even tho an enthusiastic , unlike you an Industry bigwig , I think I am doing my bit.

I try to spread the love re NZ racing........pay my bills to a few trainers and syndicates , and regularly attend meetings.A small bettor ,since lockdown I have increased my bets by 5 x times as I aware betting on NZ TAB is the lifeblood of the Industry.

I think I do my bit...more than the average NZ racing follower .....though I stopped the bleeding just last week on my 'breeding' career.

My breeding and partner and I sold our mare for $600.......she was carrying a $15k service fee and had four winners from 4 foals at races. One other died so she bred no complete duds.

And what are you doing ,other than posting aggressively on social media ?

You and those close to you have been big players in Racing during the steep decline of the industry over the past 30 years.....I sit and watch the train wreck you have been an influence on.Like many you seem to long for the good old days , resistance to change........why encourage the like of Stratford and Avondale to go to court to thwart the Industry [again !! as they have done previous to resist  change ]

Methinks some racing people have been so close to the Industry they can't see the train wreck !

Its kinda sad !

With your experience you should start with a clean sheet on how the Industry should progress to give it some hope of survival.....accept change is necessary.

Sadly your club is probably doomed as one that holds TAB meetings in your home town !

100 years.....a good innings !And you had the Ranfurly Shield once !

Despite the advice that I always hand out of never engaging with an idiot I will reply to you Tasman Man

No aggression at all, just a question  which you answered in a roundabout way

That reminds me, you promised to answer me as to why you would carry on business in a rented factory as opposed to one you owned, I'm still waiting. Be 2 months now, are you having troubles?

I take exception to the '30 year' comment but then realise that you have no real idea, you just pulled a time frame out of the blue

The train wreck that you believe I had an influence on? What influence do you believe I had? 

If you mean my family I would point out that they served on the NZRA, not the NZRIB, and things were not going downhill then but  I doubt you would know that

Who said I I long for the good old days? Where did I say I was resistant to change? Who said I couldn't see the train wreck? 

I thought most of my posts certainly make it obvious that I can see the train wreck

I am all for change if it betters the industry, but as yet I haven't seen much action other than cost cutting from RITA that would better the industry. Perhaps you could enlighten me? Do you believe that running 75 meetings at Addington, on Friday/Sundays will result in a wave of new interest?

Again, if you are referring to Marlborough, it is not my Club but if you think it is doomed then there can't be much hope for Nelson paying a huge rent, or a 'licence to occupy' as silly old Peter Malone called it can there?

You asked what am I doing? Not a hell of a lot really as I have lost interest, plus I have to raise 2 teenagers and provide for 2 others,  and in any case trying to fix the train wreck now is a little bit like applying to be Wilder's trainer before his second fight with Fury and missing out, then being asked to step in after 6 rounds of being knocked about and trying to resurrect the situation. Dean's finding that out I'd say

Where have I ever encouraged any Club to take legal action? You are making things up as you go along

I asked Stables and I will ask you, if Stratford paid for their own land pre-TAB days, and haven't received more than they generated from betting, then what right does Racing have to their assets moreso than the local Community? 

Try to stick to the point this time instead of making up false allegations as to my beliefs

Mikie

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mikie said:

I asked Stables and I will ask you, if Stratford paid for their own land pre-TAB days, and haven't received more than they generated from betting, then what right does Racing have to their assets moreso than the local Community?

That's a very good question that no-one seems to have an answer to.

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5 hours ago, nomates said:

This situation highlights the shitfest that the governing bodies of NZ racing have set in motion . From the first mention of track closures  , thru to the Messara report , the underlying theme has been about reducing track numbers as we were seen as having too many , and i agree , but somewhere along the line someone upon high get the idea that these facilities actually belong to the industry as a whole . The idea being that the sale of said tracks would give a small pot of gold to the industry . But i keep asking why does the industry need this pot of gold , simply put , Serious Mismanagement .

This pot of gold would fill the glaring hole in the industry funds that has pissed against the wall with as series of ill thought out and poorly managed ideas . The industry bodies have propagated the myth that the cost of maintaining all the tracks we have was a drain on the industry or put another way " sucking the industry dry " . I have yet to get a succinct and clear answer to the one question i and many others keep asking of the those that believe that the industry is being sucked dry , SHOW ME THE FIGURES ? . Even NZTR can produce any numbers to back their claim . They have now withdrawn dates to some clubs under the rouse of them being too expensive for owners to travel their horses to , yet we still have Ruakaka and Riverton with dates , go figure .

We now have an industry that is at odds with itself , clubs having dates withdrawn for daring to stand their ground , others threatening legal action . Avondale back racing with 5 dates for next season by agreeing to a consultation process , but does anyone really believe they are going to relinquish their track and funds . 

My point is that this has all been poorly handled from racings management , they have for many years now treated lesser clubs with contempt , taking previously prime date and highly successful racedays , Stratford's New Years eve meeting was always a successful day for racing as a whole as well as the local community . Why would these lesser clubs ever feel like they belonged to one big happy industry , yet are now are be told for the betterment of their industry they should relinquish their assets . 

This all could have been managed a lot more professionally and still can . I favour all raceday venue tracks being given a set of KPI's that they must maintain to remain a viable . No if's or but's , no maybe's , you fail to fulfill the brief your gone . Obviously some of the KPI's would be the obvious such as track standard , turnovers and facilities . What all the KPI's would be is for others to decide , but , they must cover all tracks , no discrimination . My only worry there is , having seen the state of some tracks of our bigger clubs since resumption , would they be up to standard . I'm sure others have ideas that could solve these issues , but simply putting a gun to a clubs head isn't the solve .

They say " for the betterment of the whole industry ", then the whole industry needs to be part of the solution and work together to find a solution . Not just bully , these clubs have a history that is part of our racing fabric and they should treated with such disdain .

If  MR B SAUNDRY isn't telling pork pies and that this is not about the "money " , then this should be easier to solve than the industry turning on each other .

ANOTHER GREAT POST FROM NOMATES! :wub:

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Now Mike, you know the answer as should every person on this site that saw Messara as the messiah. He advocated that the industry should be restructured with land and assets from clubs set to be closed down, to be transferred to improve facilities and tracks at the clubs that remained. Now as I recall almost all posters on this site welcomed the Messara report and applauded Winston Peters for his readiness to introduce legislation to bring Messaras ideas to fruition. Now we all have exactly what we asked for

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28 minutes ago, Stables said:

Now Mike, you know the answer as should every person on this site that saw Messara as the messiah. He advocated that the industry should be restructured with land and assets from clubs set to be closed down, to be transferred to improve facilities and tracks at the clubs that remained. Now as I recall almost all posters on this site welcomed the Messara report and applauded Winston Peters for his readiness to introduce legislation to bring Messaras ideas to fruition. Now we all have exactly what we asked for

What? Go back and read again.

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29 minutes ago, wobbly said:

Same Murray Blue who blackballed prospective members, with a differing opinion to his, at the turn of the century.

His vision for the club back then perhaps didn't pan out as well as he'd hoped?

One does feel that the beliefs he had then still apply regardless what the new act says. Maybe its him that holds the upper hand and NZTR are going to have to take the club to court to prove otherwise.

Its a catch 22 for NZTR whether to have a go in court.   They can't do anything with the Club as they  have no racedays to take away from them. They have removed them already for the last two years so all they can do is aquire the assets. Lose that battle they all should do a Todd Muller.

Maybe leaving Stratford alone to their own designs maybe the best in the long run ,there's no harm done.

 

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