Trump

Race Club Assets

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In order to protect its assets from being “Nationalised”, what is there to stop a Club from spinning off its Land and Buildings into another Entity, then the Race Club leases those assets on race day? A bit like Pakuranga Hunt Club leasing Ellerslie to hold a race day. By doing that, the course and land would be seperate from the Racing Club and perhaps protected from being “seized” by NZR. The Club Members could vote to do this couldn’t they? 

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6 minutes ago, Stoyd said:

Unfortunately too late for that approach as according to Section 21 (1) of the new Racing Act it would need the approval of the code after 1 July. 

I would think a lengthy legal battle would result. 

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Just now, Trump said:

I would think a lengthy legal battle would result. 

Wouldn't be lengthy , NZTR can't afford to fight 1 costly legal fight far less the number of clubs that i reckon would tell them to stick it . Maybe racing could a 1 year hiatus so they can afford the battles , i think all participants would be up for that .

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46 minutes ago, Trump said:

In order to protect its assets from being “Nationalised”, what is there to stop a Club from spinning off its Land and Buildings into another Entity, then the Race Club leases those assets on race day? A bit like Pakuranga Hunt Club leasing Ellerslie to hold a race day. By doing that, the course and land would be seperate from the Racing Club and perhaps protected from being “seized” by NZR. The Club Members could vote to do this couldn’t they? 

Was possible to do this before Royal Assent and a couple of Clubs did do so 

Now, as another poster pointed out, it is too late to do do

Mikie

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The South Waikato Racing Club own their own training track and facilities just out of Tokoroa. They race at Matamata once a year on a Wednesday in March. Will the rapacious NZTR seize their assets as well? Odd on that any proceeds from winding up Clubs will not go back into stakes or track maintenance but into further empire building and job creep.

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1 hour ago, nomates said:

Wouldn't be lengthy , NZTR can't afford to fight 1 costly legal fight far less the number of clubs that i reckon would tell them to stick it . Maybe racing could a 1 year hiatus so they can afford the battles , i think all participants would be up for that .

You make a good point, wouldn't be surprised if the industry goes through millions trying to seize assets , when all it needed was a bit of leadership and vision and something could have been resolved with assets better utilised, but I suppose this is the only option when no one has any faith or respect in the leadership.

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As the likes of 3 or 4 on here have said many times there is no way you would trust either rita or NZTR with a windfall of many millions of dollars from selling off various precious resources. I really do think that a decent enough lawyer would be able to convince a judge that the track record of rita and NZTR is so appalling that they should have no right to run roughshod over the interests of the wider industry. Nothing either body has done so far has shown any empathy towards industry participants, and nothing they have done has indicated an intelligent and achievable plan for the industry's future. 

I think there would be a public outcry, even from those who hate racing, if it was seen that valuable community resources were being confiscated by incompetent and potentially corrupt organisations to benefit groups many hundreds of kilometres away. Just imagine if Blenheim's centrally located track was sold and all the cash was given to Auckland, Wgtn and ChCh. The community would be outraged.

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4 hours ago, Trump said:

In order to protect its assets from being “Nationalised”, what is there to stop a Club from spinning off its Land and Buildings into another Entity, then the Race Club leases those assets on race day? A bit like Pakuranga Hunt Club leasing Ellerslie to hold a race day. By doing that, the course and land would be seperate from the Racing Club and perhaps protected from being “seized” by NZR. The Club Members could vote to do this couldn’t they? 

H'mm... these "innovative" name change ideas aren't always bright.

The yuppies thought "Jockey Club" wasn't in their vocabulary so they changed the Taranaki Jockey Club to some other name. Ever since giant problems.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/121974278/community-opinion-sought-on-new-plymouth-raceways-future

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23 minutes ago, slam dunk said:

H'mm... these "innovative" name change ideas aren't always bright.

The yuppies thought "Jockey Club" wasn't in their vocabulary so they changed the Taranaki Jockey Club to some other name. Ever since giant problems.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/121974278/community-opinion-sought-on-new-plymouth-raceways-future

Well if they did happen to lose their racecourse they can always take their race meetings down the road to Stratford , sitting unused bar training .

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 AS I see it NZTR over the years have contributed to the Clubs with funds or repairs maintenance for track and buildings and so has the community therefor why cant they come to some arrangement where they split the money. If you look at it one couldnt have operated without the other. I know a lot of people would disagree but perhaps its a way to move forward

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7 minutes ago, army said:

 AS I see it NZTR over the years have contributed to the Clubs with funds or repairs maintenance for track and buildings and so has the community therefor why cant they come to some arrangement where they split the money. If you look at it one couldnt have operated without the other. I know a lot of people would disagree but perhaps its a way to move forward

It's because of the " bully boy " you'll do what we want attitude , in a lot of cases . Levin got told , move your classic to Trentham or it will be downgraded from G1 . It hadn't been G1 quality for years , still isn't , should have told them to get stuffed . One of the best days racing absolutely wrecked . 

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55 minutes ago, army said:

 AS I see it NZTR over the years have contributed to the Clubs with funds or repairs maintenance for track and buildings and so has the community therefor why cant they come to some arrangement where they split the money. If you look at it one couldnt have operated without the other. I know a lot of people would disagree but perhaps its a way to move forward

Not always correct Army

Let's take Marlborough as an example

If it is sold the land is the valuable part, everything else would be bulldozed

The land was brought by Members decades ago with no TAB monies

Mikie

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3 hours ago, army said:

 AS I see it NZTR over the years have contributed to the Clubs with funds or repairs maintenance for track and buildings and so has the community therefor why cant they come to some arrangement where they split the money. If you look at it one couldnt have operated without the other. I know a lot of people would disagree but perhaps its a way to move forward

I am not aware that NZTR has ever contributed anything towards maintenance or buildings. They don't have any money to dish out. The old Racing Board, under its various names, used to fund facilities, although doesn't seem to have done so in recent times.

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A different scenario below, but similar in that the national scouting body ran roughshod over the local community of Waiau after the scout hall was earthquake damaged and the scout group went into recess

“The group had applied for all the funds that will be generated from the property sale and had hoped to at least secure half the proceeds to benefit local youth.

“We have been battling to retain some of these funds for the youth of our community, but it is Scouting NZ policy that all property proceeds are retained by the national association (as legal owner),” the group says in the latest eCitizen, the town’s local paper.

“We have consulted with a solicitor who advises, legally, we don’t have too many rights here. It is disheartening that the hard work put in by the community to have the land gifted, build the den and keep it going for all these years, can so easily be lost to the ‘legal’ owner on paper. Scouting NZ told the group it was willing to consider a modest investment of about $10,000 in the community, based on a process of a business case detailing how the money would be used to benefit the youth in the community. We are now putting together our business case to try to receive this reduced payout as we wish to retain some funds for our community.

“We have worked hard over the past 18 months to come to the best agreement and are disappointed with this outcome, but do not wish to sacrifice it all with a legal stoush we cannot afford”, the group says. “There is no morality. Nothing in it for the community who had worked to build the den from community fundraising,” she says.

The land was originally gifted by D.C. Macfarlane and J.L. Macfarlane to “The Boy Scout County of Canterbury Trust Board” in 1956. It was subsequently transferred to “The Boy Scouts Association of NZ” in 1964.

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20 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

I am not aware that NZTR has ever contributed anything towards maintenance or buildings. They don't have any money to dish out. The old Racing Board, under its various names, used to fund facilities, although doesn't seem to have done so in recent times.

And any of that was with money that was generated from wagering on events put on by those clubs wasn't it?

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27 minutes ago, Leggy said:

And any of that was with money that was generated from wagering on events put on by those clubs wasn't it?

Yes it was, almost exclusively in those days. I find it rather strange that there is no indication these days regarding how much turnover is needed to fund the average meeting. I am always  amazed at the reluctance to run a ten race card of $10,000 races with full fields. If something like that isn't self funding then the industry probably should just close down.

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24 minutes ago, Leggy said:

And any of that was with money that was generated from wagering on events put on by those clubs wasn't it?

No. In days gone by there was a deduction on every dollar put through the tote that went into the amenities account. The money from that account, while collected from betting on racemeetings at all venues, was excluded from being spent venues such Thames and Dargaville under the funding policies devised by those administering the amenities account e.g. NZ Racing Authority.

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6 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Yes it was, almost exclusively in those days. I find it rather strange that there is no indication these days regarding how much turnover is needed to fund the average meeting. I am always  amazed at the reluctance to run a ten race card of $10,000 races with full fields. If something like that isn't self funding then the industry probably should just close down.

I think that roughly that would work WD. The problem is that we are paying average stakes in TR of $23,000 per race and the wagering on those events is generating about half that.

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6 hours ago, Delta Bro said:

No. In days gone by there was a deduction on every dollar put through the tote that went into the amenities account. The money from that account, while collected from betting on racemeetings at all venues, was excluded from being spent venues such Thames and Dargaville under the funding policies devised by those administering the amenities account e.g. NZ Racing Authority.

Yes. I didn't mean that amenities funding was distributed directly to the individual clubs that earned it but that it was generated by wagering on events that all clubs put on and wasn't some kind of donation from NZTR or elsewhere.

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10 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

I am not aware that NZTR has ever contributed anything towards maintenance or buildings. They don't have any money to dish out. The old Racing Board, under its various names, used to fund facilities, although doesn't seem to have done so in recent times.

They may have contributed at the Top 8 , everyone knows that, but I'd be surprised if they've contributed anything but incompetence & latent bias at these smaller clubs. 

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9 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Yes it was, almost exclusively in those days. I find it rather strange that there is no indication these days regarding how much turnover is needed to fund the average meeting. I am always  amazed at the reluctance to run a ten race card of $10,000 races with full fields. If something like that isn't self funding then the industry probably should just close down.

I agree,  but when you have people in positions of influence paying silly money at yearling sales they have to justify these actions in some way and the main focus point is stakes. Unfortunately none of them really care about the general health of the industry, they do however care about their own.

The pie has never really been. the problem as I see it, it's always been the slicing up of the pie that's the issue,of course now the industry wants the small guys knife, fork & napkin to sell to get a temporary bigger pie. The industry will find a sustainable place if participants are willing to accept reality and leaders stop selling them a BS narrative,  that however won't happen and it will continue down the gurgler. 

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