Gravytrain 0 Report post Posted April 11, 2011 Are we seeing the beginning of the demise of racing in NZ beyond 300metres? Only around 25% of races are now longer than the sprint journey. Why??? We have just sent 3 middle distance dogs to WA, when in the past they would have gone to NZ. Why would you send this type of greyhound to NZ when in most instances they would be racing against each other? I read of the decline in betting turnover on the greyhounds in NZ and I am sure, the excess supply of sprint races, is a major contributing factor to this happening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 Are we seeing the beginning of the demise of racing in NZ beyond 300metres? Only around 25% of races are now longer than the sprint journey. Why??? We have just sent 3 middle distance dogs to WA, when in the past they would have gone to NZ. Why would you send this type of greyhound to NZ when in most instances they would be racing against each other? I read of the decline in betting turnover on the greyhounds in NZ and I am sure, the excess supply of sprint races, is a major contributing factor to this happening. couldnt put it any better to many short races Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydreamnz 493 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 including me but I don't know what the answer is. A few things have been tried. Lets hope it does start getting better soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin 200 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 For all the reasons that have previously been espoused on this forum predicting this very situation. A few smart operators realised early on that NZ was behind the rest of the world in realising the worth of the middle distance or further dog so bought Aussies castoffs in bulk to compete for the same money in sprint races. The influx of these dogs dictated the animals avaialbe to make up fields and almost overnight we had more sprint races on the cards than middle distance, culminating in Manawatus infamous 100% sprint meeting. As a result the stock we are now breeding off is predominatly from sprint types and the short course dogs are here to stay for the immediate future. Like you we attempted to stick with the middle distance dogs and we got sick of one particular dog sitting in the kennels every week because we refused to enter her in a sprint. We finally did and she won and paid $45. We made a conscious decision at that point to concentrate on sprint racing because it is the only way to get a start and the money is very good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingman 3 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 For all the reasons that have previously been espoused on this forum predicting this very situation. A few smart operators realised early on that NZ was behind the rest of the world in realising the worth of the middle distance or further dog so bought Aussies castoffs in bulk to compete for the same money in sprint races. The influx of these dogs dictated the animals avaialbe to make up fields and almost overnight we had more sprint races on the cards than middle distance, culminating in Manawatus infamous 100% sprint meeting. As a result the stock we are now breeding off is predominatly from sprint types and the short course dogs are here to stay for the immediate future. Like you we attempted to stick with the middle distance dogs and we got sick of one particular dog sitting in the kennels every week because we refused to enter her in a sprint. We finally did and she won and paid $45. We made a conscious decision at that point to concentrate on sprint racing because it is the only way to get a start and the money is very good. You have hit the nail on the head Mike. Apart from dogs being able to race for longer, and twice a week, and possibly with less chance of injury over the short course. It is economically more attractive. So one way is to make it less attractive, without compromising sprinting altogether. How I'm not sure, and it would take time to get more middle distance dogs on the track, so would be a gradual process. But the longer the issue is not addressed, the harder it will become. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydreamnz 493 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 Like most things money would seem the biggest carrot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravytrain 0 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 Like most things money would seem the biggest carrot. You are 100% correct. If the sprint dogs have the opportunity to race twice a week, sometimes 3 times in a week, why not reduce the prizemoney accordingly, and add to the middle distance money where the greyhounds because of obvious welfare reasons, can only compete once a week I know this suggestion will probably be howled down, however, if some such encouragement is not given to owners/trainers to prepare their dogs for longer distance racing, the greyhound industry is going to languish in NZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustydreamnz 493 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 They seem to have a lot of middle distance racing, regular staying races and bugger all sprints. Wouldn't that be fantastic here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 They seem to have a lot of middle distance racing, regular staying races and bugger all sprints. Wouldn't that be fantastic here? your right dusty that would be good but until you stop breeding for the sprints and importing sprinters it will take along time to change Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 They seem to have a lot of middle distance racing, regular staying races and bugger all sprints. Wouldn't that be fantastic here? most trainers in aust dont want sprinters as most of all the good prizemoney is in the 500m plus races, so thats what nz could do put more 500 plus races on with good prizemoney the tide will slowly turn remember nz brought this upon themselves by bringing in all these sprinters how many group races do you see race around the 300metre mark at all the top tracks in aust Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Shady 479 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 Why do we need to worry about what Australia is doing, we are not Australia. Someone mentioned about sprinters being able to race 2 or 3 times a week and mid distance only once, I don't think you would have to look to far to see plenty of dog's running 500+ more than once a week here! The NZGRA can only card races for which they get nominations for so and it's common knowledge they will card mid distance races over sprints so clearly there not getting the numbers nominating to do this. The message is pretty clear....put up with what we have at the moment or there would be NO dog racing at all!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 Why do we need to worry about what Australia is doing, we are not Australia. Someone mentioned about sprinters being able to race 2 or 3 times a week and mid distance only once, I don't think you would have to look to far to see plenty of dog's running 500+ more than once a week here! The NZGRA can only card races for which they get nominations for so and it's common knowledge they will card mid distance races over sprints so clearly there not getting the numbers nominating to do this. The message is pretty clear....put up with what we have at the moment or there would be NO dog racing at all!!you might right put up with what you have but your point about dont worry about what aust is doing is incorrect what if you took out all of the aust dogs, how trainers have got new training methods from aust there are many kiwis wanting to know what the most up to date thing happening in aust . you can put up with you have got now but if you dont plan for the future there wont be one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philhound 0 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 I agree with much of what has been said.A couple of seasons ago i raced a sprinter at the highest level and it was my original intention to step the dog up over more ground but as the money was good sprinting there was no incentive to do this. instead i raced him once a week at the most and he was always fresh and a race never took the edge off him. i have often thought the difference in stakes from sprinting to middle distance is not enough and if they took say 10% off sprint stakes surely that would give maybe 20% to put onto 400m plus races. in saying this i also think the top level sprinters should have more feature races. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman 1,352 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 Why do we need to worry about what Australia is doing, we are not Australia. Someone mentioned about sprinters being able to race 2 or 3 times a week and mid distance only once, I don't think you would have to look to far to see plenty of dog's running 500+ more than once a week here! The NZGRA can only card races for which they get nominations for so and it's common knowledge they will card mid distance races over sprints so clearly there not getting the numbers nominating to do this. The message is pretty clear....put up with what we have at the moment or there would be NO dog racing at all!! Quiet right Slim, leave the sprinters alone. People forget about the punters that supply our stake money. Just imagine if all races were 500+ it would mean punters would be encouraged to bet on every race. The way it is now you only have to bet on 25% of races. Makes working out the form easy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 Quiet right Slim, leave the sprinters alone. People forget about the punters that supply our stake money. Just imagine if all races were 500+ it would mean punters would be encouraged to bet on every race. The way it is now you only have to bet on 25% of races. Makes working out the form easy.it certainly does plenty of time to check form i also think the 500m dogs are little bit more consistent with form therefore a better punting option Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin 200 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 I agree with much of what has been said.A couple of seasons ago i raced a sprinter at the highest level and it was my original intention to step the dog up over more ground but as the money was good sprinting there was no incentive to do this. instead i raced him once a week at the most and he was always fresh and a race never took the edge off him. i have often thought the difference in stakes from sprinting to middle distance is not enough and if they took say 10% off sprint stakes surely that would give maybe 20% to put onto 400m plus races. in saying this i also think the top level sprinters should have more feature races. That taking 10% off sprinters would be an effective 8% drop in prizemeoney paid out. It will have to be a gradual thing and in my opinion it has to start with making importing less attrative. Have a look at all the pups for sale in the the latest On Track mag. I have no crystal ball but I am willing to wager that they are very difficult to sell and there are many more following. Meanwhile there is still an influx of Aussie (mainly sprint) dogs. Somewhere over the next few years this has to stop or we better start up another GAP program. Maybe imports should not be accepted by GAP at all? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin 200 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 All imports that are not used for breeding must be sent back to land of origin on retirement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravytrain 0 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 It's happening here in OZ as well. Take tonite's Dapto C meeting, 50% of the programme caters for the 297m distance. It's worse in the country where at times, the entire day's racing is restricted to races less than 350m in distance. The TAB turnover on these races is way down compared to the longer distance events. IMO this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed urgently otherwise the general punting public are going to loose total interest in greyhound racing. I consider the answer lies with the obvious - the clubs and the trainers. Clubs to programme middle distance races with extra prizemoney to encourage trainers to put in that bigger effort to get their dogs to run 500m plus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 All imports that are not used for breeding must be sent back to land of origin on retirement.brilliant idea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 It's happening here in OZ as well. Take tonite's Dapto C meeting, 50% of the programme caters for the 297m distance. It's worse in the country where at times, the entire day's racing is restricted to races less than 350m in distance. The TAB turnover on these races is way down compared to the longer distance events. IMO this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed urgently otherwise the general punting public are going to loose total interest in greyhound racing. I consider the answer lies with the obvious - the clubs and the trainers. Clubs to programme middle distance races with extra prizemoney to encourage trainers to put in that bigger effort to get their dogs to run 500m plus. i think part of the problem you will find is to buy 500m dogs from aust is hard and expensive people seem to want to get rid of sprinters as they dont want to travel in aust for no money Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamboozla 6 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 What NZ wants, -As many races as possible (Capitalism) -Races for all dogs irrespective of form/entitlement (Socialism) -High stakemoney (Capitalism) -Kiwi bred races only (Protectionism) -Aussie sprinters tax (Protectionism) -More breeeding but we cant afford it or too lazy, just buy in another cheap sprinter and keep moaning.. (Apathy) -Lots of 500m races without the dogs to run them -More staying races without actually providing regular scheduled races -Less Sprints Anything else I missed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1 361 Report post Posted April 12, 2011 What NZ wants, -As many races as possible (Capitalism) -Races for all dogs irrespective of form/entitlement (Socialism) -High stakemoney (Capitalism) -Kiwi bred races only (Protectionism) -Aussie sprinters tax (Protectionism) -More breeeding but we cant afford it or too lazy, just buy in another cheap sprinter and keep moaning.. (Apathy) -Lots of 500m races without the dogs to run them -More staying races without actually providing regular scheduled races -Less Sprints Anything else I missed? yep less aussie owners taking out all the big races Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin 200 Report post Posted April 13, 2011 Especially the second one. I think this going to reach crisis point in the near future when all the pups born in the last 12 months head for the track at once. There is going to be a bottleneck where either a lot of the poorer racing dogs quit or a lot of the newbies do not have a racing career. Either way it is going to cause heartache. I can see a lot of disturbed observers and a lot of dissapointed breeders and owners wondering what the point of it all was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabrejay 2 Report post Posted April 13, 2011 What NZ wants, -As many races as possible (Capitalism) -Races for all dogs irrespective of form/entitlement (Socialism) -High stakemoney (Capitalism) -Kiwi bred races only (Protectionism) -Aussie sprinters tax (Protectionism) -More breeeding but we cant afford it or too lazy, just buy in another cheap sprinter and keep moaning.. (Apathy) -Lots of 500m races without the dogs to run them -More staying races without actually providing regular scheduled races -Less Sprints Anything else I missed? Helen Clark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamboozla 6 Report post Posted April 13, 2011 Helen Clark Get your hand off it, your wife wouldn't be pleased to know your dreaming of Helen Clark. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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