scooby3051

$100,000 Group 1's

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I've always maintained that if you can win a $50k race, you have enough in the tin to go and have a crack at good money over the ditch.   But don't assume that it will be easy.

Leggy is quite correct.

For far too long, our 'elite' races have been staked at a level way out of all proportion to the revenue earned on those races,  and NZTR have been complicit in this.

What would be a bigger insult is if the lower-rated horses are obliged to run for 5k to maintain even the 100k grp stakes.  That would cause a huge drop-off in ownership.  Most of those horses will not be heading to Aus,  but to other pursuits - or the doggers.

Destabilise the bottom of the pyramid at your peril.   If achoolboy and club/provincial rugby struggle, we will very soon have  fewer players for the franchises or All Blacks.  Simple really.

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Pam, the answer or concern rests in para 4 of your reply. 

If the NZ Cup is 30k, as Leggy suggests, then a rating race at CJC will be 5k. It is all over if this proves to be so as owners will walk. The sack of kumara quote rings. 

I am starting to think it is all a hell of a lot worse than we belive it to be. 

If only the cards were put on the table to be read, transparency is missing here 

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1 hour ago, Huey said:

The bottom will be just fine if lett alone, those are the people that really love the game and they'll probably do it anyway many of them.

I always get a laugh out of people threatening to take horses to Australia like you just up and go and win races it isn't easy thats why most just threaten to go. Have a look at the fields at Ballarat today racing for 22.5k and think youre just going to win races for fun over there.

Not to mention does the NZ TAB really care if you race them over there? After all you can still bet on them here.

It about value for money..I like to think some of them may pay their way at some stage..In NZ now thats going to be impossible....simple fact.

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30 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

I've always maintained that if you can win a $50k race, you have enough in the tin to go and have a crack at good money over the ditch.   But don't assume that it will be easy.

Leggy is quite correct.

For far too long, our 'elite' races have been staked at a level way out of all proportion to the revenue earned on those races,  and NZTR have been complicit in this.

What would be a bigger insult is if the lower-rated horses are obliged to run for 5k to maintain even the 100k grp stakes.  That would cause a huge drop-off in ownership.  Most of those horses will not be heading to Aus,  but to other pursuits - or the doggers.

Destabilise the bottom of the pyramid at your peril.   If achoolboy and club/provincial rugby struggle, we will very soon have  fewer players for the franchises or All Blacks.  Simple really.

Exactly right Pam , unfortunately the powers that be don't see it that way, the industry will only recover to a sustainable level with the assistance/recovery of the base of the industry.

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1 minute ago, scooby3051 said:

Yes so I have the option to do with my horses as I please right??? So why laugh at me for doing what I think is right for me???

Absolutely do as you please they are your horses, as I said I find amusing how people think taking them to Australia is the solution to their NZ woes.

Best of luck with them I hope you win a G1 over there!

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1 hour ago, TurnyTom said:

If the 100k is for real, they will no longer be Group 1 races, simple as that

Forget what the stake is , size of stake doesn't determine group status , quality does , and simply put we don't have the quality regularly racing here to say any of or G1 races stand up to international quality , bar the derby , and even then as with this years edition it can be suspect . The only people benefiting from and pushing for the maintaining of our G1 races are the big studs . Our black type races from listed thru to G1 need to be completely overhauled , as does all of the NZ racing structure . 

Start cutting our cloth to fit .

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1 hour ago, TurnyTom said:

Yes it does matter Leggy, look at it another way if a Group 1 is 100k what would CJCs NZ Cup be, 25k

Seriously

Nz cup is generally nothing more than 85/90 rating handicap , can't even remember the last time i watched a quality NZ cup , Wgtn cup or Auck cup .

Start cutting our cloth to fit .

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1 hour ago, Pam Robson said:

I've always maintained that if you can win a $50k race, you have enough in the tin to go and have a crack at good money over the ditch.   But don't assume that it will be easy.

Leggy is quite correct.

For far too long, our 'elite' races have been staked at a level way out of all proportion to the revenue earned on those races,  and NZTR have been complicit in this.

What would be a bigger insult is if the lower-rated horses are obliged to run for 5k to maintain even the 100k grp stakes.  That would cause a huge drop-off in ownership.  Most of those horses will not be heading to Aus,  but to other pursuits - or the doggers.

Destabilise the bottom of the pyramid at your peril.   If achoolboy and club/provincial rugby struggle, we will very soon have  fewer players for the franchises or All Blacks.  Simple really.

And the reason NZTR kept this disproportionate scale was because of the persons that were more likely to win these races .

I,m hopeing the drop to 100k  G1"s is so that they can maintain better levels for lower grades . Not holding my breath tho .

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4 minutes ago, TurnyTom said:

Nomates, do you really think a 100k nz group 1 will stand alongsid an ozzie 1.3mil group 1?

Cant see a positive here at all, what am I missing 

NO , never , but neither does a 1mil NZ G1 , you have to forget about the size of the stake and start asking are our horses as a whole that run in our G1's genuinely G1 horses . I don'e believe so . The standard of our G1's as a whole are at best G3 Aust level . IMO . 

WE need to start being realistic about the quality of our product .

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2 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

It about value for money..I like to think some of them may pay their way at some stage..In NZ now thats going to be impossible....simple fact.

I think there's a better chance of more of them coming close to that if they flatten the curve like this. More important, it's potentially sustainable and growth may even start to occur.

 

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1 hour ago, nomates said:

And the reason NZTR kept this disproportionate scale was because of the persons that were more likely to win these races .

I,m hopeing the drop to 100k  G1"s is so that they can maintain better levels for lower grades . Not holding my breath tho .

Dead right. I'd think this would be in order to maintain the July 15k minimums and free racing at the bottom end or at least I'd hope so, and to do that without borrowing and depleting reserves to do so.

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26 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Dead right. I'd think this would be in order to maintain the July 15k minimums and free racing at the bottom end or at least I'd hope so, and to do that without borrowing and depleting reserves to do so.

I'm not so confident about them maintaining the 15k min , i think , hope , that they will at least stay with the 10k but have no confidence they will , or can . For me the 15k was a sweetner to get people to put their horses back into work after the lockdown , so that they had a reasonable number of horses to start back with . I also think they have been caught by the numbers wanting to race so quickly and they have failed the owners who cannot get a run because of that . There is a race a Wanganui where there are 8 emergencies , disgraceful , they could have split it and rewarded the owners who went to bat for the industry . Wait till Te Rapa  noms , it's could be a shit fest , they should be programming another northern meeting this week or next to give everybody a run . Nothing has changed in regards their disrespect towards industry participants , and until this changes they are always going to struggle .

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4 hours ago, nomates said:

I'm not so confident about them maintaining the 15k min , i think , hope , that they will at least stay with the 10k but have no confidence they will , or can . For me the 15k was a sweetner to get people to put their horses back into work after the lockdown , so that they had a reasonable number of horses to start back with . I also think they have been caught by the numbers wanting to race so quickly and they have failed the owners who cannot get a run because of that . There is a race a Wanganui where there are 8 emergencies , disgraceful , they could have split it and rewarded the owners who went to bat for the industry . Wait till Te Rapa  noms , it's could be a shit fest , they should be programming another northern meeting this week or next to give everybody a run . Nothing has changed in regards their disrespect towards industry participants , and until this changes they are always going to struggle .

So this it what interests me,

Did I hear ,see, read somewhere, are the horses who missed out on a start at Puke guaranteed a start next time , Te Rapa I take it ?

If so , won't this be an inferior class of horse who couldn't make the cut getting 1st dibs at Te Rapa , at the expense of a lot of the Te Akau/BakerPorsman/Marsh runners ?

 

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41 minutes ago, Charlie Bukowski said:

So this it what interests me,

Did I hear ,see, read somewhere, are the horses who missed out on a start at Puke guaranteed a start next time , Te Rapa I take it ?

If so , won't this be an inferior class of horse who couldn't make the cut getting 1st dibs at Te Rapa , at the expense of a lot of the Te Akau/BakerPorsman/Marsh runners ?

 

Any horse that didn't get a run at Puke is guaranteed a start and possibly any other horse that didn't start at Puke ahead of any that did , if they have the same conditions as Ricc. So basically yes to your question but don't quote me on it . As i said i think they have got caught out a bit with the numbers but a simpler solve would have put on another meeting , possibly can't because of budget constraints , that wouldn't surprise me .

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GROUP 1:  $100,000
GROUP 2:  $  75,000
GROUP 3:  $  50,000
LISTED:     $   25,000
OTHERS    $   15,000


I'd be happy with this stakes structure above while in the re-building stage over the next 2 years. I'd also be happy with John Allen, Glenda Hughes & the rest of the useless board to contribute $50,000,000 upfront plus $17,000,000 per annum to the NZ Racing Industry ! 🤬

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43 minutes ago, puha said:

My guess is 150 k Group 1s . Minimum surely can’t drop below present levels .Owners need a half decent stake if they are lucky enough to win a race.

Listen to nomates & Leggy everyone....we have been racing beyond our means for years to the detriment of our grassroots/coalface participants.
I believe we need better stakes at the bottom to encourage growth in Ownership, Investment, Sponsorship and Participation.
Higher Stakes will again come in time for stakes races with mass involvement.
FIRSTLY HOWEVER WE MUST PROTECT OUR PUNTERS!  and not by shutting down our shop windows TAB's, Racebooks, Race Media, Marketing, General News, Form & Information!
REMOVE ALL OBSTACLES FOR THE PUNTER!
Racing can continue at this level here...IMO any horse that is capable of winning a stakes race in NZ... is good enough to race competitively in Australia for better stakes and that is the short term reality!....Be-it the Aussie Bush, Darwin, Tasmania or the Metro City's
Like now.... horses with any ability can and will race in places like Australia, Singapore & Hong Kong but maybe with more NZ Owners who re-invest here with their Overseas Dollars??

 

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56 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:

GROUP 1:  $100,000
GROUP 2:  $  75,000
GROUP 3:  $  50,000
LISTED:     $   25,000
OTHERS    $   15,000


I'd be happy with this stakes structure above while in the re-building stage over the next 2 years. I'd also be happy with John Allen, Glenda Hughes & the rest of the useless board to contribute $50,000,000 upfront plus $17,000,000 per annum to the NZ Racing Industry ! 🤬

I think you could be close to mark  with those stakes , no so sure regarding others 15k , if they can hold them at 10k i would call it a win .

Good luck getting any money out that lot , they worked hard to accumulate it so wont give it up .

I would love it if you were right regarding a 2 year re build , but i fear we could be looking at 10+ years of belt tightening , there is an awful lot to rectify . Got to get the right leadership in place to start with , no easy task .

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46 minutes ago, puha said:

My guess is 150 k Group 1s . Minimum surely can’t drop below present levels .Owners need a half decent stake if they are lucky enough to win a race.

Where are you going to get the money for that? Rob a bank? They've tried that.

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