RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
mikenz

On course betting terminals.

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How would they work, do u fill in card as you do in tab and feed the machine, how do you collect, ive often wondered that question for years but never been lucky enough to be in that position, in some ways if there is hardly anyone on course is it that bad that tote staff aint there, bit different on big days , they need to be i spose, sometimes some changes are good, we just dont accept it at the time.Mind you if you get somebody pissing around and you are waiting behind that would be a pain, most people would bet on smartphone anyway.

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12 minutes ago, mikenz said:

How would they work, do u fill in card as you do in tab and feed the machine, how do you collect, ive often wondered that question for years but never been lucky enough to be in that position, in some ways if there is hardly anyone on course is it that bad that tote staff aint there, bit different on big days , they need to be i spose, sometimes some changes are good, we just dont accept it at the time.Mind you if you get somebody pissing around and you are waiting behind that would be a pain, most people would bet on smartphone anyway.

It makes you wonder how they have gotten away with thiis crap for so long.In wellington TABs they have one machine to read the form another machine to place your bet and neither machine will allow you to collect....WTF is going on, which bunch of morons came up with this? Betting online is integrated , you can withdraw and deposit , study the form and place your bet on the one secure site , how hard can it be to have one integrated machine in the TABs that can do 10% of what my $100 smartphone does and has done for years ffs.

 

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Surely there will be a supervisor who will pay out money and help those who need it. Hopefully they have separate terminals for those who bet bigger and don't want to be held up by people putting a $1 a place on 5 runners.  Also would be good to have some easy to use machines for the once a year punter with next race to go on this track, win, place, value and selection to speed the process up. Ib America the two tracks I went to it was pretty much only machines with only a couple of 'manned' operators. 

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1 hour ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

Surely there will be a supervisor who will pay out money and help those who need it. Hopefully they have separate terminals for those who bet bigger and don't want to be held up by people putting a $1 a place on 5 runners.  Also would be good to have some easy to use machines for the once a year punter with next race to go on this track, win, place, value and selection to speed the process up. Ib America the two tracks I went to it was pretty much only machines with only a couple of 'manned' operators. 

Yes that and a cashier to cash out the vouchers. Even at the Arlington Million a couple of years back it was mostly machines with a few tote operators (probably not required at most smaller meetings though.. Doesn't take long to get used to them.

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44 minutes ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

Surely there will be a supervisor who will pay out money and help those who need it. Hopefully they have separate terminals for those who bet bigger and don't want to be held up by people putting a $1 a place on 5 runners.  Also would be good to have some easy to use machines for the once a year punter with next race to go on this track, win, place, value and selection to speed the process up. Ib America the two tracks I went to it was pretty much only machines with only a couple of 'manned' operators. 

You've usually been receptive to technology but here you are not thinking straight,

Now people don't go to a casino and pull out their smartphone to play poker they go there for an experience. Also they mostly purchase chips and bet with those.

With a racetrack the chips are virtual i.e. just a balance.

So whats the simplest way to place a bet? One way is to place a mark on a racebook or perhaps something like a book of raffle tickets. The items have an ID like a barcode so when you place in front of a scanner the bet is identified and sent to your smart phone where you OK it and send it off. You don't need a web site and the app on the phone is just dedicated to receiving your proposed bet and sending it off.

Could well be that the scanner could be your phone if it wasn't an onerous process,

THis idea of terminals, machines, operators, cash, lost tickets, costly web sites does seem like a different age.

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I was a Randwick for the Randwick Guineas in March.  All the bookmakers there want their tote to follow New Zealand's example.  It would do more for the bookies than anything they have ever dreamed of.  I have mentioned this hare brained scheme to various punters who all think I am having a great leg pull.  It is beyond their comprehension.

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2 hours ago, Berri said:

When Air NZ changed from personalised ticketing to self service, there were quite attractive people there to help. When I go into a supermarket t the self service machines, there's a person to help. When I go to the TAB..........?

Yes, and the Rita Guys just don't; get it. They going to kill Betting turn over by 50% or more maybe?. I had an elderly owner call me today. He has a $50 bet each Saturday. Say no fields in paper no more.No radio trackside. No tipsters etc

Said to hell with the TAB. He rang them to complain, asked who do I write to, etc, told no one there that would reply.

So another lost customer. The Shop Window Mr. McKenzie has Griffie all over it. It's starting to smell before we even start racing.

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On 5/30/2020 at 12:27 PM, slam dunk said:

You've usually been receptive to technology but here you are not thinking straight,

Now people don't go to a casino and pull out their smartphone to play poker they go there for an experience. Also they mostly purchase chips and bet with those.

With a racetrack the chips are virtual i.e. just a balance.

So whats the simplest way to place a bet? One way is to place a mark on a racebook or perhaps something like a book of raffle tickets. The items have an ID like a barcode so when you place in front of a scanner the bet is identified and sent to your smart phone where you OK it and send it off. You don't need a web site and the app on the phone is just dedicated to receiving your proposed bet and sending it off.

Could well be that the scanner could be your phone if it wasn't an onerous process,

THis idea of terminals, machines, operators, cash, lost tickets, costly web sites does seem like a different age.

Hi Slam D  I can just see you sitting at the  kitchen table with your head in your hands with a bottle of whiskey in front of you .You are now yelling at the dog '" how do I get these old soldiers up with new technology " .Obviously you know what you are talking about and it gets the old brain working ,but I think people will be walking away , The old SST 's will be wheeled out and if you try to imput your bet on to fast they jam and make a mistake ,and try and back out they jam and 100% of the time no one can reset them . I" m pretty good with my lap top getting round the dog of a TAB site so I think you will be pleased with that and I have been to thousands of race meetings both here and in Aussie but until they get back to TAB outlets on course and back to normal  there will be a lot of us staying home ,Cheers BH

 

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38 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Hi Slam D  I can just see you sitting at the  kitchen table with your head in your hands with a bottle of whiskey in front of you .You are now yelling at the dog '" how do I get these old soldiers up with new technology " .Obviously you know what you are talking about and it gets the old brain working ,but I think people will be walking away , The old SST 's will be wheeled out and if you try to imput your bet on to fast they jam and make a mistake ,and try and back out they jam and 100% of the time no one can reset them . I" m pretty good with my lap top getting round the dog of a TAB site so I think you will be pleased with that and I have been to thousands of race meetings both here and in Aussie but until they get back to TAB outlets on course and back to normal  there will be a lot of us staying home ,Cheers BH

 

Agree they are totally inappropriate for race days with large volumes of bets, they are not intuitive, even the betting slips are inappropriate for them. Can't see anything but a disaster on course Saturdays unless they open a few windows, I'm not sure why clubs would do 3 windows a $10,$20 & $50 + windows again. Really can't believe this decision to rely solely on this technology which isn't a helluva alot better than the website.

Not to mention , if punters can't get cash from their bets will they spend winnings on booze (a lot of clubs depend on this) at the club on course, will they turnover their bets like they used to, some punters if they want to get cash will have to travel long distances to cash in winning bets if they aren't up with the online or have an account.

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Flipside of this I have found the in person operators increasingly unhelpful/unschooled in betting terminology. If I placed say a place six bet...or percentage quinella...would always do that via machine or internet. Not worth the hassle! 

Even had one old charmer at te rapa couple of years ago, sneering at my collect of just under $400...'youll lose it back!' he said. Not nicely. Right. Excellent way to woo your customer...!

I know we can't do % quinella/exacta/duet here but if they get the right partner and same machines as aus....easy peasy! 

Bring it on I say. 

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1 hour ago, Boss Hogg said:

Hi Slam D  I can just see you sitting at the  kitchen table with your head in your hands with a bottle of whiskey in front of you .You are now yelling at the dog '" how do I get these old soldiers up with new technology " .Obviously you know what you are talking about and it gets the old brain working ,but I think people will be walking away , The old SST 's will be wheeled out and if you try to imput your bet on to fast they jam and make a mistake ,and try and back out they jam and 100% of the time no one can reset them . I" m pretty good with my lap top getting round the dog of a TAB site so I think you will be pleased with that and I have been to thousands of race meetings both here and in Aussie but until they get back to TAB outlets on course and back to normal  there will be a lot of us staying home ,Cheers BH

 

Thinking at cross purposes here. Can't really figure what you prefer. We do agree the SST's not much use at the races. I used to take a laptop to the races 25 years ago. No accessible internet but all the form data was on the computer database. Quicker and simpler than even now with the internet. Don't think I ever saw anyone else on track with a laptop.  I actually ended up with Ivan Cosgraves CPM machine in the eighties.  Remember him he was the one who started processing stats and Best Bets/Turf Digest purchased his weekly stats which appear for every runner, e.g. 50 starts 5 wins 5 2nds 7 red Stakes $666666  5 starts Heavy 3 wins etc etc.

So what I am saying is there is one rule I have learnt, That is "Keep it Simple"

If RITA are looking at technology for the racetrack the first thing is to figure what is the simplest way of placing a bet, Then call for solutions. Finally decide what is most cost effective. The answer will no doubt be far simpler and cheaper than they imagine.

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2 hours ago, slam dunk said:

Thinking at cross purposes here. Can't really figure what you prefer. We do agree the SST's not much use at the races. I used to take a laptop to the races 25 years ago. No accessible internet but all the form data was on the computer database. Quicker and simpler than even now with the internet. Don't think I ever saw anyone else on track with a laptop.  I actually ended up with Ivan Cosgraves CPM machine in the eighties.  Remember him he was the one who started processing stats and Best Bets/Turf Digest purchased his weekly stats which appear for every runner, e.g. 50 starts 5 wins 5 2nds 7 red Stakes $666666  5 starts Heavy 3 wins etc etc.

So what I am saying is there is one rule I have learnt, That is "Keep it Simple"

If RITA are looking at technology for the racetrack the first thing is to figure what is the simplest way of placing a bet, Then call for solutions. Finally decide what is most cost effective. The answer will no doubt be far simpler and cheaper than they imagine.

Unfortunately even if it is a cheap option, the management at Rita will manage to turn it into an expensive dog of a system not fit for purpose. Just look at the present website as an example. Better systems around the world have been implemented for less than a quarter of what you paid for yours and they are not paying a 17m yearly fee on top. I hope Mckenzie is asking some brutal questions to the head of betting and other managers as to how and why this has occurred.

Who did they get to test this new system and give feedback before going live?.   Any punter worth their salt could have told them within a few minutes that this website would be a turnoff to the majority of people and why.

Why are you paying a 17million a year fee when the whole system could have been implemented for less than 17million ? For what we have paid with continuing costs(Could be 200million plus with the 17m for 10years) we could have updated the dinosaur jetbet system to a 2020 equivalent and had the new website as well. 

What is the plan going forward? How are you going to increase turnover with an outdated system, a website that is not user friendly or conducive to placing a number of bets quickly and no marketing of racing on Radio,Paper or Free to air TV. 

So far we have had a huge reduction in the number of staff but not the management that got us into this mess in the first place. Why? 

Give us some idea/numbers on why you think the new AWT's will entice people to wager on them?

I have no confidence in the Management of Rita because apart from having the communication skills of a dead cabbage, every bit of news we have seen lately has been to the detriment of racing. 

 

 

 

 

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Can imagine the chaos on Melbourne Cup Day or Derby day with the once a year race goers.   I'm still of the old maxim " Keep it simple stupid "    I'm fine with computers but don't own a cell phone let alone a smart phone,    Would be a nightmare to """" it up or have it jam with hundreds of frustrated punters behind you, Tote Rage not Road Rage !    I will either put on bets at home before leaving or most likely stay home altogether when this comes in.   What other business is so hell bent on alienating  their core base ?     It is like they all went to the Mad Hatter''s School Of Business.

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Whoa Whoa Whoa........so much paranoia about the busy days and the chaos of no betting windows on busy days.....Melbourne ,Derby , Karaka and various busy Cup days.
 

The announcement of the future changes clearly pointed out that these days WOULD have the personal selling tellers !

Other facts .......many racedays with their falling attendances take less than $50k or $5k per race !Several do less than $30k !

Over 60% of bets are now digital.

Up to 45 % of bets sold are done on SST.

 

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Spoke to friends high up in IT at the Council, they were adamant OIA and SFO should be looking into this debacle as there is NO WAY any system should cost this much, let alone 17 million to maintain each year.

When I explained RITA can't implement the 12 week upgrades they nearly choked on their cognac, then were fuming that after such a waste , absolute waste of money , Racing gets a $72.5 million bailout from Govt.

Luckily I explained it was only $50 million to rita .....

They were ropeable , more re the website costs so great to get an alternative view

 

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59 minutes ago, Charlie Bukowski said:

Spoke to friends high up in IT at the Council, they were adamant OIA and SFO should be looking into this debacle as there is NO WAY any system should cost this much, let alone 17 million to maintain each year.

When I explained RITA can't implement the 12 week upgrades they nearly choked on their cognac, then were fuming that after such a waste , absolute waste of money , Racing gets a $72.5 million bailout from Govt.

Luckily I explained it was only $50 million to rita .....

They were ropeable , more re the website costs so great to get an alternative view

 

Pretty much true Charlie. Someone saw a mug coming and took them for every cent they could. I suppose you could hardly blame them. They probably couldn't believe anyone could be that stupid. Given history, I suppose they will now be targeting that greater Wgtn outfit. At least they will leave Racing alone now, they will realise there is no more money to be had.

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13 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

Whoa Whoa Whoa........so much paranoia about the busy days and the chaos of no betting windows on busy days.....Melbourne ,Derby , Karaka and various busy Cup days.
 

The announcement of the future changes clearly pointed out that these days WOULD have the personal selling tellers !

Other facts .......many racedays with their falling attendances take less than $50k or $5k per race !Several do less than $30k !

Over 60% of bets are now digital.

Up to 45 % of bets sold are done on SST.

 

can you give a bit more data on these stats please Tasman.

60% of all bets on and off course digital ? Or on course ?

45% on those terminals ???

 

Cheers

 

Col

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38 minutes ago, chelseacol said:

can you give a bit more data on these stats please Tasman.

60% of all bets on and off course digital ? Or on course ?

45% on those terminals ???

 

Cheers

 

Col

When are these stats from? 

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Have been told Auckland Greyhounds the other week had offered to cover all costs to have on course terminals operating wages, line hookup etc but the power to be said no. I also understand they have offered to buy the existing terminals and cover costs but no way will they let that happen. Just goes to show that when a club tries to help themselves they get no surport. 

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