RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Huey

Is now a good time to restructure Clubs?

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On 6/9/2020 at 12:34 PM, We're Doomed said:

I really do think it is stretching it to suggest that Stratford, Hokitika and Waimate etc are responsible for the industry's problems. I suppose we will see in a year or two, if we last that long, whether pouring all our resources into a few big, but hitherto under-performing, tracks is the answer to the industry's problems.

Having clubs like Stratford etc is a huge asset to racing. They seem to be self sustainable and hopefully contribute to community welfare. Just where is the logic in deregistering them from racing?

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43 minutes ago, Stables said:

You may be right, but it is now the ideal time to maximise the centralisation of clubs. If not the cost of maintaining all these racing centres must be a financial drain on the industry

I don't quite follow your logic. How is closing down three or four country tracks that are maintained by the locals with a lot of voluntary work and local sponsorship and moving their meetings to a central track, which then has to conduct say ten extra meetings, going to save the industry money in maintenance costs? I don't imagine Riccarton has the committee get out and paint the seats and mow the grass. They can't even get rid of their eyesore old stand. If a country track had an old stand like that a local farmer would turn up one day with his bulldozer. Compare Riccarton with Waimate. If I understand correctly the locals found $500,000 to replace their stand that got destroyed in a storm.

Even rita and NZTR don't go so far as to claim the industry will save money in maintenance costs under the new regime. All they claim is that they will save owners money by not having to travel to country meetings, and the TAB will save money not having to service them. People also conveniently forget that probably $500,000 of local sponsorship will be lost to the industry per annum.

Also remember that the only way some of the extra meeting sent to the big centres can be accomodated is by spending $30m or more on all weather tracks - bloody expensive way to save money.

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On 6/14/2020 at 12:28 PM, Mikie said:

RACE a financial success is it?

Mikie

The last Feilding Cup run at Feilding was for $7500.00. Now that Feilding have sold their track and have their money in the bank the Feilding Cup is run for $50000.00 at Awapuni.

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26 minutes ago, fermoy said:

The last Feilding Cup run at Feilding was for $7500.00. Now that Feilding have sold their track and have their money in the bank the Feilding Cup is run for $50000.00 at Awapuni.

I think you'll find that the FJC has no money in the bank but a $1.9m investment in RACE and that the 50k for the Feilding Cup came from the NZTR stake distribution, not from the club.

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8 minutes ago, Leggy said:

I think you'll find that the FJC has no money in the bank but a $1.9m investment in RACE and that the 50k for the Feilding Cup came from the NZTR stake distribution, not from the club.

Quite correct. All races on the last Fielding Cup day were run for the minimum allowable stake.  The Cup was worth $50,000 as it was a listed race. If the Manawatu RC held the meeting with a listed race the stakes would have been exactly the same. The industry doesn't get a single cent extra in stakes because of Fielding's wealthy status.

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On 6/16/2020 at 7:55 PM, Leggy said:

I think you'll find that the FJC has no money in the bank but a $1.9m investment in RACE and that the 50k for the Feilding Cup came from the NZTR stake distribution, not from the club.

What a wise investment then isnt it,and they still get to race.

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Looking from the outside, I've always wondered why the clubs are so weak. Over here, the racecourses are incredibly powerful because they have established ownership of the product and have negotiated the sale of the rights to show that product to the bookmakers and the specialist racing channels.

The racecourse owners include ARC and Jockey Club Racecourses and they basically carve out the fixture list within their groups to ensure the courses in their ownership get their fair slice of the fixtures.

The courses charge admission (far more than in NZ) and rake it in on sunny summer evenings when thousands turn up to eat and drink to excess and then listen to a tribute band or, if it's one of the top courses, someone like Tom Jones or James Blunt or Little Mix for which the admission effectively doubles.

Try closing a course in the UK and see how far you get - to paraphrase Life of Brian "every course is sacred". 

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On 6/22/2020 at 4:20 PM, Leggy said:

If you think investing in RACE is a good investment, that would be right.

Yep definitely as Wellington,Marton,Feilding,Rangitikei and Ashhurst/Pohangina obviously thought as well.Now RITA,Winston and NZTR obviously think its a good idea as well investing $10 million into an all weather track at Awapuni.I take it you know better than all of them??

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28 minutes ago, fermoy said:

Yep definitely as Wellington,Marton,Feilding,Rangitikei and Ashhurst/Pohangina obviously thought as well.Now RITA,Winston and NZTR obviously think its a good idea as well investing $10 million into an all weather track at Awapuni.I take it you know better than all of them??

Do you really know how much of the debt those clubs named  above are burdened with , and now they have to find 3mil+ to top up the construction of the A/W . When the industry is in the shape it is the last thing an indebted business needs is added financial burden .

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5 minutes ago, nomates said:

Do you really know how much of the debt those clubs named  above are burdened with , and now they have to find 3mil+ to top up the construction of the A/W . When the industry is in the shape it is the last thing an indebted business needs is added financial burden .

Please enlighten us?

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10 minutes ago, fermoy said:

Please enlighten us?

Presently about 7/8 mil , but don't quote me as being exact , some one might have more accurate figure . Was about 13mil a few years back , banks were wanting money so NZTR had to step in and guarantee the loan . Someone posted recently quoting the news letter as a member of WRC which basically stated they were broke . Now they are expected to find 3mil+ to help fund the A/W plus additional maintenance costs , not prudent IMO .

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5 minutes ago, nomates said:

Presently about 7/8 mil , but don't quote me as being exact , some one might have more accurate figure . Was about 13mil a few years back , banks were wanting money so NZTR had to step in and guarantee the loan . Someone posted recently quoting the news letter as a member of WRC which basically stated they were broke . Now they are expected to find 3mil+ to help fund the A/W plus additional maintenance costs , not prudent IMO .

But surely the land at Awapuni and Trentham would be worth at todays section values in prime residential locations $250 million.The debt is miniscule if you are prepared to look at the bigger picture,if you want to.

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3 minutes ago, fermoy said:

But surely the land at Awapuni and Trentham would be worth at todays section values in prime residential locations $250 million.The debt is miniscule if you are prepared to look at the bigger picture,if you want to.

What's the bigger picture , they've already used up all the usable land around their tracks , Palmy are still trying to off load a number of sections , one of the things that would help their debt situation . 

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3 minutes ago, nomates said:

What's the bigger picture , they've already used up all the usable land around their tracks , Palmy are still trying to off load a number of sections , one of the things that would help their debt situation . 

The bigger picture is that contrary to your suggestion they are far from broke with 7 or 8 million debt (your figures) and 100s of millions of dollars worth of land hahaha

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3 hours ago, fermoy said:

The bigger picture is that contrary to your suggestion they are far from broke with 7 or 8 million debt (your figures) and 100s of millions of dollars worth of land hahaha

Cash is king!  Well cash flow in this case,  where do they race and train if they have to sell up the collatarel? 

Another awful example of mediocre leadership with visions of grandeur leading them up the creek to oblivion.

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On 6/14/2020 at 12:28 PM, Mikie said:

RACE a financial success is it?

Mikie

I haven't looked lately but I'll say 'No!'. The idea was good in principle but the results not so. What damaged R.A.C.E.? Trentham?

Perhaps those clubs destined for oblivion might sell their assets and invest in housing development, accepting that the future of racing is uncertain. Losing their assets, built over many years, to The Corporation is too much to swallow.

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1 hour ago, Phar Lap Fan said:

 

Perhaps those clubs destined for oblivion might sell their assets and invest in housing development, accepting that the future of racing is uncertain. Losing their assets, built over many years, to The Corporation is too much to swallow.

Perhaps take on the Auckland trotting club as a consultant, they have quite a bit of useful experience in that field.

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Over here, the growing dispute between the racecourses and "the Horsemen" (basically the owners) over prize money is intensifying.

Courses are desperate to race - that might seem strange given they are getting no income through the gate or through food and drink sales - because they have a source of income via media rights. Instead of the usual 6-8 races per card, we are now regularly seeing 10 race cards as every race run means income for the course, the jockeys and of course a chance of prize money for owners and trainers.

The real losers from all this are the on-course bookmakers who have been left completely high and dry. Those representing off-course firms will be okay but those running the business purely on course have no income and there's a real chance the on-course market will never recover from this.

Less income for the courses means less money across the industry which leaves less for prize money. The big races have seen their pots cut to ribbons - the Derby last year had a first prize of £921,000 but this year it was £283,550 and the Oaks was half of that. To be fair,  the bottom rung have not suffered - Class 6 races (the lowest grade) have been left unchanged but at just £2,800 to the winner that's a different and no less awkward question. The problem is there are many more bad horses than good ones so there's a need to run more lower-grade races but the problem is there simply aren't enough races being planned for the moderate horse population.

At least four courses have been mothballed by the larger owning groups through the summer as the groups struggle financially (see above). What we've not yet been told by the bookmakers is the extent to which business has recovered since the easing of lockdown. 

Owners (two per horse) were allowed back last week but there seems little immediate prospect of a return for most racegoers.

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On 6/14/2020 at 12:28 PM, Mikie said:

RACE a financial success is it?

Mikie

I dont live down that way but the difficulties that Race got into I believe was getting involved in building and development. Bob Jones says all developers go broke. I have been a builder and developer and got caught on two specs but many were good and I kept the shirt on.

Awapuni built a new stand then got into land development then got hit with a recession. Result sections didnt sell (and really was there a market for them at the time) But a perfect storm nonetheless.

Lesson - Clubs should not get involved in things where they dont have the expertise. Land agents and banks are skimmers and take no risk. They can talk the unwary into unwise actions, in fact clubs are sitting ducks. And there is no accountability and that is the major flaw.

 

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