RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
john legend

RIDA and Winny

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Once upon a time... there was a bear called winny and he tried hard to make a big splash by selling lots and lots of property .but alas this failed as most were not available for sale without courting bears and council bears joining in.He did not give up no no no The properties for the chop were given but a few crumbs ,dates and raisins that naturally were not palatable and tasted more like lemons. But it weakened their appearance and condition so much they became somewhat vulnerable to big bear Winny. He then decided restructuring no no just a Rita meter maid to complete his task .Now Rita had some power for a meter lady,but she had been spending more than her income so needed help herself Ah thought Winny give her an offer of 72.5 million dollars and in return she would save face before an election of course and remove the bad raisins and dates altogether. Job completed.No food no healthy bears around. Bang bang we shot them down... the 35 suits who support Rita then take many millions for themselves and they and winny all happy bears. The Industry collapses.already horses for free happening and fine people get hurt.:rcf-cat-7:an old childrens bedtime story I found....

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From what I've read of your posts John, you must be a very unhappy man. Rita was formed to reconstruct racing according to the outline provided in The Messara Report. They have started doing exactly that. The covid 19 pandemic accelerated some of the change by exposing the mess left for RITA to clean up by John Allen and his Racing Board cronies. Rita have been able to remove most of the debt left behind by the Racing Board ,with considerable help from the Minister of Racing the Right Honourable Winston Peters. As I posted in an earlier post

 

Well done Winston and this time I would add, Thankyou Winston and Dean McKenzie

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4 minutes ago, Stables said:

Do you think that RITA would have faced insolvency if the pandemic had not arrived. RITA was already drafting plans to reduce staffing levels and other costs. We will come out of this with a much more streamlined, efficient, profitable organisation

They were insolvent and facing default well before COVID was even heard of. Read John Aubrey's analysis per Barry Lichter. Now they are cutting $10m pa of staff costs? But they have nothing on the table to improve revenus, seem to have done little about outsourcing licensing options, ignored the principles of Messara's venue plan, have virtually no money, no assets and no plan. At least none that they have shared with stakeholders.

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13 minutes ago, Stables said:

Do you think that RITA would have faced insolvency if the pandemic had not arrived. RITA was already drafting plans to reduce staffing levels and other costs. We will come out of this with a much more streamlined, efficient, profitable organisation

Drafting a plan must take a long time then

As for more efficient? The only casualty amongst the top 7 highest paid employees has been the one who cocked up the $3.5 million in Bonus Bets

I’vd also thought restructuring should start at the top and work down. Clearly that’s not the case here

Mikie

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8 minutes ago, Leggy said:

They were insolvent and facing default well before COVID was even heard of. Read John Aubrey's analysis per Barry Lichter. Now they are cutting $10m pa of staff costs? But they have nothing on the table to improve revenus, seem to have done little about outsourcing licensing options, ignored the principles of Messara's venue plan, have virtually no money, no assets and no plan. At least none that they have shared with stakeholders.

Awesome Leggy

Mikie

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stables I am unhappy when good people and a lot of them are getting burned for Why? you are a pest at best or an old fashioned "stooly" If you enjoy closing a whole region down is SUCH A great idea you are an unfeeling uncaring person  who I have the pleasure of not knowing.You probably like the Trump as well.

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2 hours ago, Stables said:

Do you think that RITA would have faced insolvency if the pandemic had not arrived. RITA was already drafting plans to reduce staffing levels and other costs. We will come out of this with a much more streamlined, efficient, profitable organisation

RITA had given no direction or ideas or plans what they intended to do since they were appointed until Covid 19 - they have been found very wanting .

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NZ Racing has been lacking in collaboration for 50 years or more when it comes to agreeing to a plan/strategy to future proof the Industry.

Of course there has been a lot of challenges along the way.......Lotto,Casino,Pokies and overseas competition ,Sharemarket crash , GFC ,ACC costs, Health & Safety and other legislation incl employment law,Earthquakes etc etc then the Racing Act and the general change in population  spread , immigration and huge change in attitudes.People got more materialistic , needed 3 x cars and 3 x TV's per household and 2x overseas trips a year etc etc.Greyhounds split the pie !

Interest in horses dwindled professional stables and syndication changed the face of NZ Horse racing ......money coming into racing mainly went into stakes which helped some including Breeders.

The cost of racing horses escalated.

Being closer to Australia has seen us stall in comparison as they buoyed by a huge betting population and Government backing. Ditto Hong Kong.Many of our good get sold or aim to race overseas [eg Sunline, Lyall Creek ,Lazarus]

National Administrators tended to be those with the biggest self interest like breeders and regional administrators . 

For over 40 years most agree we have too many tracks yet no one had the backing or nous to act. Our funding has been scattered and infrastructure has suffered. Buildings decrepit , track surfaces inconsistent and poor .

Younger people have too many options ,and the love of the horse and rural outlook lost among youth.

Things were left to drift on as it was in the 1940's and 1950's.

Lifestyles changed and even among trainers and participants they soon found staying at home in front of TV with beer in fridge and betting on telephone then internet was amazing ....no traffic , more spare time ,much easier ,cheaper and Trackside TV just kept getting better ,including blossoming Aussie racing ! Sports betting ....bait and switch....Racing bets went to sport.

Still the Administrators couldn't or wouldn't change things.

Regional Bias became stronger , stakes had stagnated so Codes talked NZRB to pay out more money than they earned.....betting blossomed but costs escalated.

They lost control of the money and their equity.

The TAB went bankrupt ....couldnt pay the bills.

Covid 19 came and masked things.

Here we are......we got an Aussie in to help ,of course its taken a while to settle on plan......no one wants to lose their track and the odd raceday,  no one !

Those likely to , have turned bitter....Avondale with healthy cash flow ,balances and huge equity maintain they cost the Industry nothing.

How about the BRAND of Racing ,the place a disgrace and they argue that Messara didn't visit !Blame and denial !

Other clubs maintain the same ,they they sit there with very borderline facilities and healthy cash and equity yet still take funds off the Industry and deny others and apply for huge funding....gimme ,gimme ,gimme !

The axe is wielded and still there is blame ,denial and name calling RITA as idiots.

These clubs with the cash and equity IMO should contribute both solutions and equity to the Industry.

Their members don't OWN the equity.

Rita's cost cutting only half the equation.

They will continue to bleed unless betting in NZ resumes and quickly gets to previous levels.

Will the Government step up again , they only have paid the current bills so they can continue trading !

If the Code Boards , personnel and the personal interests backing them don't change then Funding and stakes will be slaughtered and the industry will be racing for kumaras in bags !

JMO

Yes....a waffle , but the Insolvency implications not getting thru NOR is the fact that stakes rely on betting which already is over 50% Australians betting on our races !

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1 hour ago, tasman man 11 said:

 

Other clubs maintain the same ,they they sit there with very borderline facilities and healthy cash and equity yet still take funds off the Industry and deny others and apply for huge funding....gimme ,gimme ,gimme !

 

Which Clubs take funds off the industry Gary? Evcery country Club has funds they earnt taken off them and given to Addington and the ATC. It's called the Group Subsidy and it is enough to turn every $7000 race into $10000 overnight. You talk absolute drivel

 

1 hour ago, tasman man 11 said:

Their members don't OWN the equity.

 

So where the land that the Racecourse sits on was brought with a gift from the Members, then kept profitable by Farming activities run by the Committee you think that they don't own the land?

Tell me what Nelson, your Club, do apart from race on the property? I can't think of anything else? You are evading the point about the Taxpayer bailing them out Gary, why is that?

Mikie

1 hour ago, tasman man 11 said:

 

 

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TMan, read the latest report by Barry Lichter on facebook which clearly identifies the leaders of the industry including the codes,TAB ,Rita and old NZRA. as delinquent in their duties to promote racing in an efficient manner. Over many years the accountants held sway and silly decisions were taken which only added fuel to the fire which is now blazing. I call the decision to deny trotting to most of the north Island in 1 move as incredibly stupid and shortsighted due to the damage it will do to the image of harness racing,the development of future horses and horsemen as well as costing more than will ever be saved.Punting often is improved in areas by ownership and sponsorship also creates interest. To punish well run and economic raceways along with some that  should have combined years ago is heavyhanded to say the least. Racecourses that have closed in this (manawatu/wellingtontaranaki)nclude...Bulls/marton/fielding/foxton/Levin/Hutt park. so why we now have to look at closing.Manawatu/hawera/stratford tauherenikau especially when some are not decrepid but modern facilities. The cost to the industry comes from RITA and other organisations that place a huge burden on the profits that could  filter through to the trainers and owners .I have never  known any business model that closes outlets region by region without any warning or preplanning. I have also been talking with many irate owners and trainers !

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3 hours ago, john legend said:

stables I am unhappy when good people and a lot of them are getting burned for Why? you are a pest at best or an old fashioned "stooly" If you enjoy closing a whole region down is SUCH A great idea you are an unfeeling uncaring person  who I have the pleasure of not knowing.You probably like the Trump as well.

He sounds like one of those MAGA twats I keep encountering on twitter.... except this is a kiwi version.

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Give me an indication of the numbers of people that are effected by these changes and I will compare it to the numbers of people in the rest of New Zealand who would have had their livelihoods destroyed when the whole system of Harness racing fails. These changes are forced upon us by economic reality

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1 hour ago, tasman man 11 said:

They will continue to bleed unless betting in NZ resumes and quickly gets to previous levels.

Quite frankly I can not see a way out of this downfall because with the tools that are available (A piece of shit website and the same crew steering the ship) what is going to change in terms of attracting punters back to the TAB? Throwing bonus bets at them is just not going to work. I fear the heads of the TAB only know one way and that is tighten the restrictions even further, cut even more frontline workers and alienate the racing industry even more than they already have. Elite punters have already left in their droves because of these restrictions placed on them by the TAB corporates blindly following the UK bookies rulebook to increase profit.

Add to this the shop window has now been papered over with our frontline TV presenters gone, along with on-course totes and form guides.

Why are they not promoting racing more, loosening the restrictions and by doing that attracting the punters that have left back into the game. I would definitely bet more if I could get more on.

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3 hours ago, Mikie said:

Which Clubs take funds off the industry Gary? Evcery country Club has funds they earnt taken off them and given to Addington and the ATC. It's called the Group Subsidy and it is enough to turn every $7000 race into $10000 overnight. You talk absolute drivel

 

So where the land that the Racecourse sits on was brought with a gift from the Members, then kept profitable by Farming activities run by the Committee you think that they don't own the land?

Tell me what Nelson, your Club, do apart from race on the property? I can't think of anything else? You are evading the point about the Taxpayer bailing them out Gary, why is that?

Mikie

 

Mikie,

Few clubs raced for $7 k , and in North where costs considerably higher even $10k would not be appealing for many considering ownership.

36.6% of horses won $10k or more last season which is on the up ,but NZ returns low by overseas standards in any code..

Group races.....Most agree some of the highest stakes should be trimmed and reallocated , but without the incentive of prize money which reflects Group 1 Status ,ownership will become less attractive IMO.

Your club introduced a nice Group race a few years back but it now ceased and that a shame as your club has plenty of funds . Not too many clubs add to HRNZ's funding for stakes ,but some do including the Southland clubs when racing resumes .Well done Southland. I believe others did too incl ATC last year[ by 5%] and Rangiora also .

Nelson...... visually and financially not a strong club. It has a great date in early January ,could probably handle a 3rd day a few days earlier as half of Canterbury in the region. The connections love the place and Nelson has a good track.

In view of Marlborough getting probably  axed  ,Nelson somewhat lucky .Understandably Marlborough who are represented on HRNZ board will be upset.

But desperate times call for desperate measures !

In view of current uncertainty and lack of money to continue with all tracks ,what tracks do you think should have missed out ?

 

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4 hours ago, john legend said:

TMan, read the latest report by Barry Lichter on facebook which clearly identifies the leaders of the industry including the codes,TAB ,Rita and old NZRA. as delinquent in their duties to promote racing in an efficient manner. Over many years the accountants held sway and silly decisions were taken which only added fuel to the fire which is now blazing. I call the decision to deny trotting to most of the north Island in 1 move as incredibly stupid and shortsighted due to the damage it will do to the image of harness racing,the development of future horses and horsemen as well as costing more than will ever be saved.Punting often is improved in areas by ownership and sponsorship also creates interest. To punish well run and economic raceways along with some that  should have combined years ago is heavyhanded to say the least. Racecourses that have closed in this (manawatu/wellingtontaranaki)nclude...Bulls/marton/fielding/foxton/Levin/Hutt park. so why we now have to look at closing.Manawatu/hawera/stratford tauherenikau especially when some are not decrepid but modern facilities. The cost to the industry comes from RITA and other organisations that place a huge burden on the profits that could  filter through to the trainers and owners .I have never  known any business model that closes outlets region by region without any warning or preplanning. I have also been talking with many irate owners and trainers !

I read all of Barry's articles .....went to school with him !

Sad to think the TAB went broke ,then Covid 19 finished it off till Winston stepped up. Rugby going thru similar.

Yes its sad re Central Districts...I'm hoping they can apply for some dual code with Doggies as trackside on course ,or even dual code with gallops.Fingerscrossed.

The loss of Hutt Park was a huge loss for Wellington province.

In 2018 Rita did an Economic Impact report looking at the Economic contribution /Value Added of each region and that region was not too strong in Harness ,of course relying on trainers travelling some distance.

Personally I think this a factor in decision especially as their main provider of horses [MHouse] was travelling from South Island. Currently somewhat risky for 2 x reasons!

I think that the clincher. 

This current situation with TAB virtually losing most of business over night has been catastrophic.

It had to act.....now under the eyes of Winston and Guvmint.

It could get worse.......Once racing and sport resumes people need to BET on Harness.

Prior ,more Australians betting on NZ racing than Kiwis.

And Kiwis bet more on Aussie doggies than Harness ,by double nearly !

A long way to go !

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7 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

Mikie,

Few clubs raced for $7 k , and in North where costs considerably higher even $10k would not be appealing for many considering ownership.

36.6% of horses won $10k or more last season which is on the up ,but NZ returns low by overseas standards in any code..

Group races.....Most agree some of the highest stakes should be trimmed and reallocated , but without the incentive of prize money which reflects Group 1 Status ,ownership will become less attractive IMO.

Your club introduced a nice Group race a few years back but it now ceased and that a shame as your club has plenty of funds . Not too many clubs add to HRNZ's funding for stakes ,but some do including the Southland clubs when racing resumes .Well done Southland. I believe others did too incl ATC last year[ by 5%] and Rangiora also .

Nelson...... visually and financially not a strong club. It has a great date in early January ,could probably handle a 3rd day a few days earlier as half of Canterbury in the region. The connections love the place and Nelson has a good track.

In view of Marlborough getting probably  axed  ,Nelson somewhat lucky .Understandably Marlborough who are represented on HRNZ board will be upset.

But desperate times call for desperate measures !

In view of current uncertainty and lack of money to continue with all tracks ,what tracks do you think should have missed out ?

 

You are so out of touch Gary

Marlborough does not have any representative on the Board, where did you dream that up from?

You also seem unable to grasp the point people are making. I will have another go. The Group Subsidy means tht a race worth $xxxx could become $xxxx plus $3000 overnight

The Group race run at Marlborough was attracting only 5 starters, of course it had to be axed, a practical business decision. Your logic is we have money in the Bank, let's waste it, you would have fitted in well at the RIB wouldn't you?

Insofar as your question as to which Tracks should close I have already said that I have not kept up with the Deep South for example. I can name 2 Tracks that should still be racing, Marlborough and Manawatu. Both fulfil Winston's promise that every region should have at least 1 race meeting. Manawatu caters for a certain type of horse which even you have conceded. There is no cost to Owners unless they choose to travel there ie they don't have to

Stables asks how many people are affected by a Track closure. You cannot quantify it. However, when the Nelson gallops (quite rightly) shut down the loss of Owners and Punters that were on the Committee could be quantified, and we are talking large Owners and very large punters. The Owners between them had cut down from 25 horse to 2 within a year, the punter had given up within 3 months and bought a speedboat. No once a year race meeting will mean no interest

Mikie

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Can you guys stop playing the man and concentrate on the sport. 

Slightly off the topic but a neighbour and his family race a couple of off road cars/buggys. 

They cost a lot of money, and a lot more to be front of the pack. 

They generally import high performance parts from the USA to improve the quality of the car. 

They race a few hours travel from home every time they compete. 

They recently towed the car to the bottom of the south island from the north island for a series, and some flew home and back for work. Accommodation, ferry, fuel, food! 

What the actual cost of this is would be eye watering but they do it because they love the sport. And they race for a few hundred dollars If they win. He was astounded by $7000 odd prize money for harness races as a base. 

The game is not buggered yet, and IMHO the manawatu hrc decision is wrong and hopefully will be resolved and reversed. 

 

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