RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Mikie

"Those Clubs might race at alternative Venues"

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I see the comment made by RITA's Chair of the Dates Committee that lubs may be able to race at alternative Venues and keep their individual identities

FFS why would they?

Why would, for example, Marlborough HRC race at Addington?

What possible benefit is that to anyone residing in Blenheim?

To quote the classic Aussie movie "you're dreaming"

Mikie

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Stratford wouldn't agree to go to New Plymouth which just up the road and around the corner because their sponsors were all going to pull out - so Blenheim to Christchurch is a joke.    Perhaps Palmie can go to Addington too - they would get more horses lol

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1 hour ago, Mikie said:

I wonder why Nelson got dates instead of Marlborough?

Their major sponsor is who?

And who is employed by that major sponsor?

Come in Barbie

Mikie

You will know all the answers to these questions you posing Mikie .

Did I see in one of your posts that Racing owns Waterlea ,and there has been talk about the great value of the land.

I guess if it comes down to a close decision a bit of personal bias always helps.

You obviously lean toward Blenheim !

You will know better than I ,but I'd guess the Nelson track considered better and they get that busy meeting in January which surely must do better turnover .

Most of the discussion lately is about what has gone on before......by us old men who stand with our arses on the rail squabbling amongst ourselves.

Can we bring about change which can breathe fresh life into what was / is a shrinking industry ?

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1 hour ago, tasman man 11 said:

You will know all the answers to these questions you posing Mikie .

Did I see in one of your posts that Racing owns Waterlea ,and there has been talk about the great value of the land.

I guess if it comes down to a close decision a bit of personal bias always helps.

You obviously lean toward Blenheim !

You will know better than I ,but I'd guess the Nelson track considered better and they get that busy meeting in January which surely must do better turnover .

Most of the discussion lately is about what has gone on before......by us old men who stand with our arses on the rail squabbling amongst ourselves.

Can we bring about change which can breathe fresh life into what was / is a shrinking industry ?

Yes, and they pay a huge rental to an entity with no connection to racing 

No bias at all Tasman Man

Just practical

Mikie

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12 hours ago, Mikie said:

Yes, and they pay a huge rental to an entity with no connection to racing 

No bias at all Tasman Man

Just practical

Mikie

Huge rental ?????

How much is huge rental ?

Surely this is a club cost affecting the internal workings of the club.

Marlborough traditionally paid higher stakes ,so I guess you refer to those type of things.

But the outpouring of grief toward the new dates etc ,is a little hard to follow as things were getting more run down year on year and change in racing has been very slow if at all.

Look at Rugby....Marlborough and Nelson were enemies historically with the latter close to folding .They were forced to merge as Tasman ,now they on top....change was good !

Money invested .....facilities upgraded etc.But what resistance initially !

But with racing everyone wants to hold on to these ONE or twice a year tracks which have participants travelling for hours .....horses,owners and TAB at great cost ...yet so hard to justify in the bigger picture.

eg Roxburgh...I doubt that most never been there or would know how to get there without an atlas ! Maybe a handful of horses and people in the area so the 'community' significance irrelevant.Makes sense to run at Cromwell , in middle of populated area !

Some posters talk about the huge 'turnover' some clubs do e.g. Waimate.

Do you have the turnover figures for all clubs...on ,off and FO betting ?

Better to deal with facts than huge crowds ,huge rentals and huge turnovers.

The industry hugely overdue for some huge change to try and recover from the huge hole its sunk into.

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29 minutes ago, tasman man 11 said:

Huge rental ?????

How much is huge rental ?

Surely this is a club cost affecting the internal workings of the club.

Marlborough traditionally paid higher stakes ,so I guess you refer to those type of things.

But the outpouring of grief toward the new dates etc ,is a little hard to follow as things were getting more run down year on year and change in racing has been very slow if at all.

Look at Rugby....Marlborough and Nelson were enemies historically with the latter close to folding .They were forced to merge as Tasman ,now they on top....change was good !

Money invested .....facilities upgraded etc.But what resistance initially !

But with racing everyone wants to hold on to these ONE or twice a year tracks which have participants travelling for hours .....horses,owners and TAB at great cost ...yet so hard to justify in the bigger picture.

eg Roxburgh...I doubt that most never been there or would know how to get there without an atlas ! Maybe a handful of horses and people in the area so the 'community' significance irrelevant.Makes sense to run at Cromwell , in middle of populated area !

Some posters talk about the huge 'turnover' some clubs do e.g. Waimate.

Do you have the turnover figures for all clubs...on ,off and FO betting ?

Better to deal with facts than huge crowds ,huge rentals and huge turnovers.

The industry hugely overdue for some huge change to try and recover from the huge hole its sunk into.

Tasman Man

Sometimes your posts make sense, sometimes they are just inane

You mention the Makos, my team, I'm a huge fan, but to say that change was good? How many kids are playing JAB rugby? How many Senior Teams are there? The numbers are so bad that kids are forced to endure a bus trip of 2 hours each way just to play a game on a Saturday. I don't call that change good. Theren't enough genuine Senior players in Blenheim to fill 2 teams. The Makos aren't even home grown players, the majority are imports. Where is the benefit? 

I did not refer to Marlborough paying better stakes, I referred to the Nelson Club paying a huge rental to the A&P Association, dead money, gone from our Industry. You ask how much it is? Last time I looked it was over $40,000

You mention the cost to Owners as a reason to close Tracks, yet you support a Track with 2 hours (it's an approximation Gary, get over it) extra travel each way. Who is being parochial?

Yes, I did have the T/O figures for all Clubs, and the difference in income from on-course T/O from Nelson to Marlborough would not cover 1/4 of the Rental costs

I'll make it a bit easier for you to comprehend Gary

Let's imagine you  are a successful washing machine maker ie you make washing machines (if you don't like washing machines make them fridges)

Washing machines are great, you make 100,000 of them every year in 2 identical Warehouses. OK, not quite identical, the one you lease has a slightly bigger hallway. other than that the 2 Warehouses are identical

A Pandemic comes along and wipes out 50% of the population (use your imagination)

All of a sudden the demand for washing machines is halved. Worse than that, the New Zealand Washing Machine Association brings in a new Rule that caps your production at 50,000 per annum

Thats it, you only need 1 factory.

You own a Factory at 125 Queen Street and you lease one at 235 Queen Street for $40,000 pa

You are telling me you would continue to lease the Factory at 235 Queen Street and let the Factory you own just sit idle?

You would still pay Rates and Insurance on the Factory you owned, and you would still go there twice a day to feed the cats

Tell me Gary, without posturing or waffling, does that sound like a good decision on your part?

Mikie

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Some changes are needed.i still think forbury should be there but have better quality meetings,they were very repetitive  and probably low interest n recent times,all that's happened to their race dates is they've gone south,Manawatu the same Tuesday meetings ,small fields,maybe they can do better,maybe some dual code meetings with race clubs sometimes the best way to promote a sport /industry is  not by denying the public to see something first hand,take it away then it's gone.

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8 minutes ago, mikenz said:

Some changes are needed.i still think forbury should be there but have better quality meetings,they were very repetitive  and probably low interest n recent times,all that's happened to their race dates is they've gone south,Manawatu the same Tuesday meetings ,small fields,maybe they can do better,maybe some dual code meetings with race clubs sometimes the best way to promote a sport /industry is  not by denying the public to see something first hand,take it away then it's gone.

mikenz

The Dates Committee give Manawatu Tuesday day meetings

Then say that their small T/O's are a reason for taking their Dates off them

Really?

Mikie

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Well their location is a reason too but with crap times,poor fields its self explained, now cambridge will run those same days,maybe they may pay the price soon too and Auckland well how long they stay around is open 4 debate.

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It really is a sick joke to say the trotting industry is better served by 2 tracks only in north  Island . To utilise covid 19 as one reason the problems excacibated is plain stupid. The real reason trotting is not doing well is too much overhead. All of which has to be paid for by  by the owners /trainers/drivers/punters. To kill off centres such as Whanganui/Manawatu/WellingtonTaranaki in one hit {even if Winston made it a condition of giving 72million to RIDA ) Hisvision shuttng racecourses was simplistic but made no sense in general as most had a tie up with joint council ownership or developed by local people who would ensure funds go back to local entities.with election looming in my opinion  this could be the trade off. I. is silly,prob illegal,immoral and unnecessary to close down central and southern NI. THESE CLUBS HAVE DONE NOTHING TO DESERVE SUCH TREATMENT.. without investment by owners with no racing the system will collapse including few breeding few buying and few opportunities for new faces in the industry. Sure some changes reuired but not heavy handed action.Even HRNZ will be badly effected so they may wish to rethink their support for the stakeholders not the govt who want to be seen to make changes which will kill a whole industry

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Before Stables jumps up RIDA is not misspelt  It is the new Racing Industry destruction agency...many would see this as most apt.Its strange that Australia has more racecourses than NZ by a bigger proportion of the population even now and the ones they close eg Harold Park are the big inner city ones which no longer are fit for purpose.

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5 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

Huge rental ?????

How much is huge rental ?

Surely this is a club cost affecting the internal workings of the club.

Marlborough traditionally paid higher stakes ,so I guess you refer to those type of things.

But the outpouring of grief toward the new dates etc ,is a little hard to follow as things were getting more run down year on year and change in racing has been very slow if at all.

Look at Rugby....Marlborough and Nelson were enemies historically with the latter close to folding .They were forced to merge as Tasman ,now they on top....change was good !

Money invested .....facilities upgraded etc.But what resistance initially !

But with racing everyone wants to hold on to these ONE or twice a year tracks which have participants travelling for hours .....horses,owners and TAB at great cost ...yet so hard to justify in the bigger picture.

eg Roxburgh...I doubt that most never been there or would know how to get there without an atlas ! Maybe a handful of horses and people in the area so the 'community' significance irrelevant.Makes sense to run at Cromwell , in middle of populated area !

Some posters talk about the huge 'turnover' some clubs do e.g. Waimate.

Do you have the turnover figures for all clubs...on ,off and FO betting ?

Better to deal with facts than huge crowds ,huge rentals and huge turnovers.

The industry hugely overdue for some huge change to try and recover from the huge hole its sunk into.

Disappointing attitude towards Roxburgh. The easiest place in the world to find except if you're an Auckland numpty).it's well supported by locals and visitors, and the apricots are unbeatable. Why not leave successful holiday clubs alone.?

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16 minutes ago, Ludwig said:

Disappointing attitude towards Roxburgh. The easiest place in the world to find except if you're an Auckland numpty).it's well supported by locals and visitors, and the apricots are unbeatable. Why not leave successful holiday clubs alone.?

Tasman Man is obviously one of the "most" that he states would need an atlas Ludwig

For someone who wants to deal in facts he seems remarkably short on them

Mikie

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1 hour ago, Mikie said:

Tasman Man is obviously one of the "most" that he states would need an atlas Ludwig

For someone who wants to deal in facts he seems remarkably short on them

Mikie

The poor wee Auckland petals are rather sad. No concept of what heartland, community based racing is all about. And sadly, geography is not their forte.

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On 5/15/2020 at 7:41 PM, tasman man 11 said:

You will know all the answers to these questions you posing Mikie .

Did I see in one of your posts that Racing owns Waterlea ,and there has been talk about the great value of the land.

I guess if it comes down to a close decision a bit of personal bias always helps.

You obviously lean toward Blenheim !

You will know better than I ,but I'd guess the Nelson track considered better and they get that busy meeting in January which surely must do better turnover .

Most of the discussion lately is about what has gone on before......by us old men who stand with our arses on the rail squabbling amongst ourselves.

Can we bring about change which can breathe fresh life into what was / is a shrinking industry ?

So is Blienheim  not  closer to Canterbury than Nelson  ? If travel costs were really a consideration then Blenheim would have got the nod. 5 trainers in Neson area means they need the Canterbury trainers to travel up. Marlborough have 8 trainers by the way, also need trainers to travel up. 

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15 minutes ago, 2Piper said:

So is Blienheim  not  closer to Canterbury than Nelson  ? If travel costs were really a consideration then Blenheim would have got the nod. 5 trainers in Neson area means they need the Canterbury trainers to travel up. Marlborough have 8 trainers by the way, also need trainers to travel up. 

I've travelled the area many times, I'd prefer thru Murchison to and from Richmond other than in frost/ice. With Kaikoura's road issues in recent years I definitely go down the pass .

Horse transport very similar.

Re local trainers ,surely its the number of horses that count  but either way most of the starters are imports from Canterbury ...in fact I'd say most years Nelson trainers have more running plus the West Coast trainers and any staying around after the Coast circuit.

The Nelson track is better and of course Waterlea seems to have issues there so racing on grass in summer and winter ??? Well a recent years June meeting was held at Addington.

RITA dished out money for track in recent years and MHRC had grant requests from gaming trust  for $236k  turned down last year.

Mikie will know all this.......if the figures were good for Blenheim he would be quoting them.

AS he's been administrator for both he will know the issues and has been there during the lengthy spiral of decline in the Industry.

Other than good track and plenty of room for horses Nelson is very 1940's......but Nelson gets the big crowd on January  Sunday and shame they couldn't race the previous Sunday as well...3 x days!

Half of Christchurch goes to Nelson Dec 27th to Jan 8th.....races about 9th and 11th.

I camped at Kaiteri for 20 years !........Nelson has beaches and the visiting horse folk love the place.

Waterlea should have been  used for the school when they wanted it. The stopover issue for ferry issues is a red herring. Keep some boxes in the corner of land , put in some green space and put a jog track if needed.But  you can't halt progress cos of some hunch !

And some of the above info came from the same leak as where Mikie got his 'whispers'.Interesting how racing people can't make the hard decisions.....they try and distance themselves cos of personal interest etcetc.This has dogged Harness admin for a long time.

But the dire and desperate measures currently need to see past that........

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6 hours ago, Ludwig said:

The poor wee Auckland petals are rather sad. No concept of what heartland, community based racing is all about. And sadly, geography is not their forte.

Indeed we are and you right that few know the South Island ,they certainly don't worry about the South as the South does North.

One of my funnier moments this year was the replay of rugby match when Carlos Spencer in final moments got the brilliant runaway try v Crusaders , didn't force it but walked the ball over to corner before dotting down then calmly kicked the conversion while dissing the crowd ! Gold !

They showed kids with signs "WE hate Auckland ".

Significantly when the Earthquakes struck , those poor wee  Auckland petals graciously sent their  hard-earned dosh to help their Southern team mates !

But I digress.

Re Roxburgh ,I have lived most of my life in Otago and Nelson with a good year in Christchurch.

Plus I know my Apricots ,having picked in Hinton and Jackson orchards close to Cromwell . The Moorparks there much superior to the Roxburgh reds !

I note you tagging with Mikie ...Roxburgh and Blenheim quite similar in both small and nothing much happens.One is mainly wine and a beast the other has a dam and institutions for folk who need to be kept well away from others.And a pie shop !

Meanwhile Cromwell is in the hub of a very vibrant population and huge summer crowd.

Its a no brainer.......Omakau would be better as well.

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12 hours ago, Mikie said:

Tasman Man

Sometimes your posts make sense, sometimes they are just inane

You mention the Makos, my team, I'm a huge fan, but to say that change was good? How many kids are playing JAB rugby? How many Senior Teams are there? The numbers are so bad that kids are forced to endure a bus trip of 2 hours each way just to play a game on a Saturday. I don't call that change good. Theren't enough genuine Senior players in Blenheim to fill 2 teams. The Makos aren't even home grown players, the majority are imports. Where is the benefit? 

I did not refer to Marlborough paying better stakes, I referred to the Nelson Club paying a huge rental to the A&P Association, dead money, gone from our Industry. You ask how much it is? Last time I looked it was over $40,000

You mention the cost to Owners as a reason to close Tracks, yet you support a Track with 2 hours (it's an approximation Gary, get over it) extra travel each way. Who is being parochial?

Yes, I did have the T/O figures for all Clubs, and the difference in income from on-course T/O from Nelson to Marlborough would not cover 1/4 of the Rental costs

I'll make it a bit easier for you to comprehend Gary

Let's imagine you  are a successful washing machine maker ie you make washing machines (if you don't like washing machines make them fridges)

Washing machines are great, you make 100,000 of them every year in 2 identical Warehouses. OK, not quite identical, the one you lease has a slightly bigger hallway. other than that the 2 Warehouses are identical

A Pandemic comes along and wipes out 50% of the population (use your imagination)

All of a sudden the demand for washing machines is halved. Worse than that, the New Zealand Washing Machine Association brings in a new Rule that caps your production at 50,000 per annum

Thats it, you only need 1 factory.

You own a Factory at 125 Queen Street and you lease one at 235 Queen Street for $40,000 pa

You are telling me you would continue to lease the Factory at 235 Queen Street and let the Factory you own just sit idle?

You would still pay Rates and Insurance on the Factory you owned, and you would still go there twice a day to feed the cats

Tell me Gary, without posturing or waffling, does that sound like a good decision on your part?

Mikie

Well Mikie,

You probably too close and personal with the issues to see the wood for trees.

I've been called worse things than inane , but in your business scenario I would .....and have in past......gather all the facts and look at ALL the numbers.

A rental cost for lease may indeed be a better option than owning a building or asset ...there are risks either way.

Even if Nelson pays a 'huge' rent in your mind ,to me it may be OK.

I believe Waterlea costs $180 k a year to maintain so a $50k rent may be fine ,depends what it covers.

If you know the turnover figures ...on ,off and FO for all Harness clubs please post them.

No red herrings ,no personal bias , just facts....obviously say if meeting held at Addington in June !

As I explained earlier Nelson was clearly the top choice.I been to both often and Nelson had a great crowd on January Sunday.

And I note that the Group races been dropped as well.....track issues too I hear.

Tasman Makos...sorry you so negative about this rise from the ashes.

I didnt realise they mainly 'imports'........ I believe they would have more 'locals ' than race at a MHRC race day !

Local rugby players I aware of .... David Havilli ,Marshall bros , James Lowe , Mitchell Scott , Mitchell Hunt among others all did well before moving on while Mitchell Drummond went direct to Tasmans other team....the Crusaders !While my sons at Nelson College there were 12 boys in Pro rugby from the school plus MComan [Waimea College].

Any way I'll consider your Washing machine query tomorrow , but I await the figures.

Im pleased Racing has got a chance to try and get back on track after a lengthy spiral of decline.Need to look forward ,not back !

Has your area had much input /representatives at the top level ?

My inside contact says they have !

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6 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

Indeed we are and you right that few know the South Island ,they certainly don't worry about the South as the South does North.

One of my funnier moments this year was the replay of rugby match when Carlos Spencer in final moments got the brilliant runaway try v Crusaders , didn't force it but walked the ball over to corner before dotting down then calmly kicked the conversion while dissing the crowd ! Gold !

They showed kids with signs "WE hate Auckland ".

Significantly when the Earthquakes struck , those poor wee  Auckland petals graciously sent their  hard-earned dosh to help their Southern team mates !

But I digress.

Re Roxburgh ,I have lived most of my life in Otago and Nelson with a good year in Christchurch.

Plus I know my Apricots ,having picked in Hinton and Jackson orchards close to Cromwell . The Moorparks there much superior to the Roxburgh reds !

I note you tagging with Mikie ...Roxburgh and Blenheim quite similar in both small and nothing much happens.One is mainly wine and a beast the other has a dam and institutions for folk who need to be kept well away from others.And a pie shop !

Meanwhile Cromwell is in the hub of a very vibrant population and huge summer crowd.

Its a no brainer.......Omakau would be better as well.

I loathe and detest rugby. Why does it always need to be dragged into every discussion?. I don't give a toss about Spencer, whoever he is.

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Tasman Man, you were asked a simple question

You didn’t answer it because the response would weaken your argument

you also seem to be operating under the premise that I am suggesting that Marlborough should have dates and Nelson should not

i have never suggested that, you have chosen to interpret that

My position is that Marlborough should have got dates ahead of Nelson, but that they both should have dates

In future don’t try to put words in my mouth

You rant about facts but you never supply any, I did. You asked what the Nelson lease was and I told you. The lease is just to use the grounds, I think the Club also maintains the grounds. Therefore as a comparison with a Racecourse owned by tan Industry participant it is dead money

Din’t make sweeping statements like”my source is the same as yours”. It isn’t, my source says he has no idea who you are

My source must be better than yours, as I knew the dates well before you did

You bc are wasting my time now, you can’t reply to simple questions, you don’t have any figures to support your arguments, you are just waffling

Mikie

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So Tasman Man

in response to my post that the Tasman Makos were mainly imports you. And up with a list of 6 players to refute my argument

6 from how many seasons?

I don’t know where you went to School but your reply merely confirms that I’m right

Mikie

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Lastly Tasman Man, since you seem keen on reducing costs

Where did the Tote staff that worked on Nelson’s super Sunday come from?

You will find they came in buses, sometimes from Christchurch and always from Blenheim

That they got paid a travel allowance and that they stayed in paid accomodation, A higher on-course T/O doesn’t go very far does it Gary?

Mikie

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On the subject of tote staff , the intention is to do away with them other than the big days .The issue is when the holiday crowds turn up , machines are slower than trained staff , regular punters may use cellphones on-course but the TAB app uses batteries up way more quickly than the old site. Lots of new terminals required and power sockets. Please note as gaming machines cost in excess of 20k each (ones we make at my work) is dispensing with tote staff the way to go in the short term ?

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