Barry Lichter's News Stories

[We're Doomed 4,855]

10 minutes ago, Nukkledragga said:

Then you must be a fan of winning less money.  It was possible for trifectas for instance  to be scooped by a single 50c unit, nowadays half of YOUR winnings are jackpotted , what a great incentive for punters

I'm not a big trifecta punter these days so you are much more up with the play than I am. I quite liked the days of $1 units. I fondly recall an $8,000 one and a few around the $4,000 mark. Back in the day if no one struck the first three in order they would pay out on 1st, 2nd and any other number. I got a few of those as well. One of the reasons I don't take many of those exotics now is because people were getting it with 5% units. I think I saw someone on here once mention they take 5 cent units in the pick six place thing. I can't see that saving the TAB.

One of the problems with racing these days is that people bet in much smaller units. When I started punting in the late 70s I started out as a poor student with $1 win, $2 place. A weekly wage  for the poorer paid back then was probably about $50 a week. That is probably the equivalent of  $20 win, $40 place these days, but people are still betting $1EW. The big problem these days is people going to the races with $20 of punting money in their pockets. That was the same amount punters used to take to the races over 40 years ago.

Sorry, bit of a thread drift there.

[puha 2,177]

Not sure about 27,000 trainers and 618 jockeys ? Maybe I misread it.

[Jape 344]

57 minutes ago, Patiti said:

Names of RIB etc please Jape?

Sorry, I can recall some of those people on the RIB but not all. This is partly because of an erratic memory these days but also because we TAB directors never really had that much contact with those on the RIB. 

 As for the TAB: Rick Bettle was the Chairman of both Boards and Tom Jamison, was also on both Boards. Along with Barry Neville-White, Peter Vela, Richard Sissons, Bill Kermode after Richard resigned and myself. The late Jim Leach became the transition General Manager until the Act came into force. I was the GRNZ rep after Mary Mountier resigned and was there for most of the last 3-4 years before the dissolution of the two bodies.

Annette King was the Minister of Racing in my time before becoming the Minister of Health and Damien O'Connor took over from her.

The final Annual Report for the TAB makes very good reading with record turnover and racing being in excellent heart while sports betting was starting to emerge as a wagering force.

[Nukkledragga 229]

52 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

I'm not a big trifecta punter these days so you are much more up with the play than I am. I quite liked the days of $1 units. I fondly recall an $8,000 one and a few around the $4,000 mark. Back in the day if no one struck the first three in order they would pay out on 1st, 2nd and any other number. I got a few of those as well. One of the reasons I don't take many of those exotics now is because people were getting it with 5% units. I think I saw someone on here once mention they take 5 cent units in the pick six place thing. I can't see that saving the TAB.

One of the problems with racing these days is that people bet in much smaller units. When I started punting in the late 70s I started out as a poor student with $1 win, $2 place. A weekly wage  for the poorer paid back then was probably about $50 a week. That is probably the equivalent of  $20 win, $40 place these days, but people are still betting $1EW. The big problem these days is people going to the races with $20 of punting money in their pockets. That was the same amount punters used to take to the races over 40 years ago.

Sorry, bit of a thread drift there.

Back in the day, we are talking about the same day , they used to pay out every pool every time , even if it wasnt struck as you suggest ,which I say is an incentive for punters big and small.Now we have bullshit jackpots where punters are being robbed of money they used to win.that money is not circulating as new bets because there is always some amount being carried over, from race to race , week to week  pick6 to pick6 quaddie to quaddie etc etc which equals less turnover than if every bet terminated as in the past.

[tasman man 11 979]

6 hours ago, Jape said:

Barry Lichter's summation of the situation is - sadly - very much "on the money".

One point I would like to make, though, is that he makes no reference to the Directors of the TAB Board leading into the Racing Act of 2003. Prior to the Act there were two organisations responsible for the administration and ultimate success of Racing NZ. The Racing Industry Board and the TAB were separate units although the Chairman and one person were on both Boards. 

It would be difficult to find a more responsive and responsible group than those who comprised the TAB. Yes, you may consider I am biased but this was a genuine RACING group of people interested in RACING. Owners/Breeders/Punters, the General Public were all very well represented. This group oversaw a steady rise in the wagering on racing, including the first billion-dollar turnover. This was a time when NZ still reigned supreme in Australasia. The era of Ethereal and Sunline.

I was personally appalled that not one of those people was on the new Racing Board. The expertise, the knowledge, the PASSION of those people were totally ignored, along with the loss of so much intellectual capital.

Shame on whoever made those decisions, those appointments, which have rebounded so badly on the industry ever since.

As an example, the issue of Free-To-Air Trackside would be raised each year and each year summarily consigned to the this-will-not-change in our time basket.

There were a number of things which that group implemented  including percentage betting and incentives for those running the TAB agencies up and down the country.

As I look back on that time, I find it almost incomprehensible that Racing finds itself in such a parlous position today.

 

A time to weep. A time to mourn.

 

 

 

I think the recent Board get off very lightly in Barry's summation and other folks disgust toward JAllen.

Surely the Board need to approve and sign off all major decisions and have a big say in setting the Strategic Plan.

The TAB was trading pretty well up to a few years ago although Salaries and Operating expenses were getting out of wack. 

But the Board were surely responsible for the chipping away at the Equity ,especially the unwise decision to keep paying out more to the codes than what the TAB was making.

In any business this is crazy.......gross incompetence !

RE sports betting....I think Barry gives the impression that the $10mill to  National Sports came out of class 4 gaming.....the $4.2 mill to sports clubs along with RIU,JCA etc was paid from Class 4 pokies but the $10mil to NSO was the commission paid and part of Operating expenses.

[Pam Robson 1,547]

8 hours ago, Jape said:

Sorry, I can recall some of those people on the RIB but not all. This is partly because of an erratic memory these days but also because we TAB directors never really had that much contact with those on the RIB. 

 As for the TAB: Rick Bettle was the Chairman of both Boards and Tom Jamison, was also on both Boards. Along with Barry Neville-White, Peter Vela, Richard Sissons, Bill Kermode after Richard resigned and myself. The late Jim Leach became the transition General Manager until the Act came into force. I was the GRNZ rep after Mary Mountier resigned and was there for most of the last 3-4 years before the dissolution of the two bodies.

Annette King was the Minister of Racing in my time before becoming the Minister of Health and Damien O'Connor took over from her.

The final Annual Report for the TAB makes very good reading with record turnover and racing being in excellent heart while sports betting was starting to emerge as a wagering force.

Can you enlighten me as to the reason for the change and dissolution of the two bodies with the 2003 Act?    I possibly had a vague idea at the time,  but its vanished.....thanks!

Seems bizarre with such a good Report.

[Barry Lichter 179]

Stand corrected Tasman Man 11. Thanks.

[slam dunk 1,317]

On 5/11/2020 at 10:27 AM, Barry Lichter said:

https://www.lincolnfarms.co.nz/stories/what-happened-to-the-tabs-halcyon-days-an-a-to-z-of-what-brought-racing-to-its-knees/

Barry, I would have thought Michael Stiasney would have got more of a mention.

Not only Typhoon, Andrew Brown appointment but what about the $90,000 16 page triple spaced, cut and paste report which school teachers would have failed their students had they done it. Failed because of plagiarism and inadequate research.

 

[JJ Flash 2,135]

12 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

I think the recent Board get off very lightly in Barry's summation and other folks disgust toward JAllen.

Surely the Board need to approve and sign off all major decisions and have a big say in setting the Strategic Plan.

The TAB was trading pretty well up to a few years ago although Salaries and Operating expenses were getting out of wack. 

But the Board were surely responsible for the chipping away at the Equity ,especially the unwise decision to keep paying out more to the codes than what the TAB was making.

In any business this is crazy.......gross incompetence !

RE sports betting....I think Barry gives the impression that the $10mill to  National Sports came out of class 4 gaming.....the $4.2 mill to sports clubs along with RIU,JCA etc was paid from Class 4 pokies but the $10mil to NSO was the commission paid and part of Operating expenses.

Great post as always Gary

 

Greg

[Barry Lichter 179]

https://www.lincolnfarms.co.nz/stories/72.5-million-emergency-support-package-for-racing-with-rita-only-days-away-from-default/

 

[Maximus 429]

Cant say I'm thrilled by the news that another $2.5m goes from the Govt to another Govt agency to 'fast-track' framework of gaming revenue - ie DIA in charge of this. Too slow and the racefields legislation is crucial to future revenue streams that can drive the recovery and rebuild. The industry needs quick, decisive action to prevent a massive loss of confidence (and therefore loss of interest and investment) among NZ stakeholders -breeders, owners, trainers, staff and punters.

[Idolmite 2,531]

On 5/11/2020 at 10:27 AM, Barry Lichter said:

https://www.lincolnfarms.co.nz/stories/what-happened-to-the-tabs-halcyon-days-an-a-to-z-of-what-brought-racing-to-its-knees/

A really REALLY great article in my opinion. The following line hilights the entire story of the last 10 years to me, and also looks like where we're headed even more so in the future. 

"Trackside’s skewed priorities were never illustrated better than the year when it switched coverage away from the Auckland Trotting Cup the second the winner crossed the line to focus on a dog in Australia squatting for a poo."

[Stables 577]

I think the coverage of big racedays has been outstanding in recent times

[ivanthegreat 1,123]

The sad thing about this situation is that the industry participants have been screaming for the last 10 years about the management of the industry BUT NOBODY WANTED TO LISTEN. 

I really don't think its too simplistic to say that even a fish & Chip shop proprietor from Hicks Bay could have done a better job.......... Now that would have been a good bet.

It's impossible to say more other than when it comes to pointing the finger there's an old saying..... " YOU NEVER HAVE POOR ( as in performance ) SOLDIERS "  

[Houlahan's Dream 535]

23 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

I'm not a big trifecta punter these days so you are much more up with the play than I am. I quite liked the days of $1 units. I fondly recall an $8,000 one and a few around the $4,000 mark. Back in the day if no one struck the first three in order they would pay out on 1st, 2nd and any other number. I got a few of those as well. One of the reasons I don't take many of those exotics now is because people were getting it with 5% units. I think I saw someone on here once mention they take 5 cent units in the pick six place thing. I can't see that saving the TAB.

One of the problems with racing these days is that people bet in much smaller units. When I started punting in the late 70s I started out as a poor student with $1 win, $2 place. A weekly wage  for the poorer paid back then was probably about $50 a week. That is probably the equivalent of  $20 win, $40 place these days, but people are still betting $1EW. The big problem these days is people going to the races with $20 of punting money in their pockets. That was the same amount punters used to take to the races over 40 years ago.

Sorry, bit of a thread drift there.

You may be referring to me Mr Doomed. I often have a $20/25 place six at between 5/10%. What are you suggesting....that I should not have this bet as my $25 is not good enough for the TAB? Surely they need as many customers/punters as possible? Most of their customer surely would be in the 20-50 per week range. Maybe many bet a lot more. 

 

With their product isn't the idea to have as many customers as possible, so they can generate profit. 

[Peter R S 412]

Likewise I like to spread mine around in small units, it’s not about expecting to win plenty, rather about some entertainment. That way I don’t have “ a gambling problem “. Actually I have put more into breeding and ownership over the decades - it’s not all about pumping cash into the TAB.

On another note, it staggers me that the decision makers are decimating the shop window before reviewing the top (heavy) brass.

[jack 429]

Who was in Govt.  during the early 2006 on wards to 2017 .. National Party. The Previous Racing Minister`s before Winstone Peter`s ....

John Carter

Craig Foss

Nathan Guy

Left a hell of a mess !!

 

[Stables 577]

Sat on their backsided for the whole 9 years

[Nukkledragga 229]

14 hours ago, Houlahan's Dream said:

You may be referring to me Mr Doomed. I often have a $20/25 place six at between 5/10%. What are you suggesting....that I should not have this bet as my $25 is not good enough for the TAB? Surely they need as many customers/punters as possible? Most of their customer surely would be in the 20-50 per week range. Maybe many bet a lot more. 

 

With their product isn't the idea to have as many customers as possible, so they can generate profit. 

Mr doomed was against the idea of 5% punters winning the pool  but at the same time said he was happy to collect with 0% in the past .When it happens to you it changes your view on things, if you scoop the pool with a 5% ticket you would be sold for life but everyone else is just jealous.... until they strike it for themselves , just look at the popularity of terminating pick6's where we can get the lot with a small % ticket.We get less not more with part payouts, the good old days are just a memory

[Trump 2,741]

20 minutes ago, jack said:

Who was in Govt.  during the early 2006 on wards to 2017 .. National Party. The Previous Racing Minister`s before Winstone Peter`s ....

John Carter

Craig Foss

Nathan Guy

Left a hell of a mess !!

 

Why blame politicians? They don’t run the Racing Industry. The Racing Industry runs itself - into the ground. This Industry has been continuously warned for “at least” the last 20 years about getting their act together, about unity etc, etc. Its fallen on deaf ears. Always blaming the Minister for Racing or govts. Hopeless and rudderless. A bit like Qld was compared to Vic and NSW. Finally, the Qld Racing Industry went on Strike. They adopted an Issue and used it. It worked and Qld is on its way back - albeit with a ways to go. NZ can’t keep relying on the govt and keep demanding money. It has to take some pain in other areas and take the selfish attitude out of the equation. There has to be transparency and a roadmap. At the moment neither exists and the “roadmaps” (if one could call them that!) provided by JA and co turned out to be dead ends and canyons. The Boards have a lot to answer for - but never will. JMHO

[jack 429]

1 hour ago, Trump said:

Why blame politicians? They don’t run the Racing Industry. The Racing Industry runs itself - into the ground. This Industry has been continuously warned for “at least” the last 20 years about getting their act together, about unity etc, etc. Its fallen on deaf ears. Always blaming the Minister for Racing or govts. Hopeless and rudderless. A bit like Qld was compared to Vic and NSW. Finally, the Qld Racing Industry went on Strike. They adopted an Issue and used it. It worked and Qld is on its way back - albeit with a ways to go. NZ can’t keep relying on the govt and keep demanding money. It has to take some pain in other areas and take the selfish attitude out of the equation. There has to be transparency and a roadmap. At the moment neither exists and the “roadmaps” (if one could call them that!) provided by JA and co turned out to be dead ends and canyons. The Boards have a lot to answer for - but never will. JMHO

.. Surely do don`t think The Racing Industry just pops up out of the ground TRUMPY....   As a tax payer I would like to see The Minister of Racing be held to account ...

This fiasco did not appear over night  .... The incompetence of past ministers/govt. should be held accountable for their failure`s ...

https://www.dia.govt.nz/Resource-material-Our-Policy-Advice-Areas-Racing-Policy

[Stables 577]

Trump, there has been millions and millions pumped into Australian racing by their Governments

[gubellini 3,995]

David Bennett was the Minister of Racing prior to Winston taking over in 2017. Like Nathan Guy another also ran.

[Trump 2,741]

40 minutes ago, Stables said:

Trump, there has been millions and millions pumped into Australian racing by their Governments

Correct. But the Australian Racing Industry has used the money on Infrastructure, upgraded tracks, new tracks, new facilities, equine welfare, increased Country and City Stakes etc etc. it has also received a lot of the money from where it is generated, ie, betting. What has NZ Racing done with the money they have received? What has the Industry done to “REDUCE” the huge costs it has allowed to escalate to where they are today? 

[Trump 2,741]

1 hour ago, jack said:

.. Surely do don`t think The Racing Industry just pops up out of the ground TRUMPY....   As a tax payer I would like to see The Minister of Racing be held to account ...

This fiasco did not appear over night  .... The incompetence of past ministers/govt. should be held accountable for their failure`s ...

https://www.dia.govt.nz/Resource-material-Our-Policy-Advice-Areas-Racing-Policy

You just don’t get it. The Racing Minister has SFA to do with the running of racing. You can’t keep blaming the govt or the Racing Minister. Yes, they may have a part to play but it’s the Racing Industry itself that has to take responsibility.