shaneMcAlister

$15K all races in July

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10 hours ago, wobbly said:

As usual the punter (remember them?...they fund your stakes) gets the middle digit from the dummkopfs calling the shots and the self-serving industry servants following them over the cliff.

 

 

It's no longer the punter who pays the stakes ,   with borrowed money comrade cindy  just gave me an extra $65 a week for punting in the winter . 

I have two choices , have a weekly punt on the tax payer up until 1 Oct or buy four bags of coal a week .   Trainers on the pension (over 50%) have an extra option , they will be able to buy better quality food for their horses and inject more energy into them , I think that's what comrade cindy must have been thinking when she called it the winter energy payment .

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17 minutes ago, tripple alliance said:

Isn't this type of distribution that many of you wanted ? , isn't that why we finished up with maidens going around for $10k and R85 running around for $11k , well you got what you wanted .

They wanted it, now they got it !  The punter could get 55 start maidens.  To be fair I reckon paid down to top 6 finishers would be ok? thoughts? Does the jock have to ride his horse out when beat so he don't run last?

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1 hour ago, barryb said:

The winning owners take home at $15k is around $6725 after % and riding fee. Rider & Trainer % deducted from the $300 for 5th-14th is madness, whats the point in giving owners less than $100 in there hand for running 14th.

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Sounds like a right rip off there , no race will have more than 14 runners so jocks get a rise basically when 90 per cent of workers getting no rise or deductions in pay .Owners reps should be all over that surely .

Your float fees should come down a bit though , gas is real  cheap . I suppose it is how hard people haggle . People keep paying the coin , people will keep taking it .

 

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44 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Sounds like a right rip off there , no race will have more than 14 runners so jocks get a rise basically when 90 per cent of workers getting no rise or deductions in pay .Owners reps should be all over that surely .

Your float fees should come down a bit though , gas is real  cheap . I suppose it is how hard people haggle . People keep paying the coin , people will keep taking it .

 

The only issue  is there are a lot less meetings so riders will face a big decrease in earnings and they are riding in $15k races.

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8 minutes ago, barryb said:

The only issue  is there are a lot less meetings so riders will face a big decrease in earnings and they are riding in $15k races.

Less travel, less gas costs . How many meetings in South Island for example  in July anyway each year , hardly the big earner . Nil at Riccarton in July every year . 

Jockeys earn their crust  the risks they take so if it's going to anyone they are high on list of deserving . 

The turnover punting on these races will be bugger all .

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11 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

The turnover punting on these races will be bugger all .

Why would it be low?

They will in general be 14 horse fields & be relatively even, creating nice betting opportunities I would have thought.

The new norm for a fair while is lower turnover yes, but all research shows the bigger the fields the better.

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1 hour ago, Red Rum said:

Sounds like a right rip off there , no race will have more than 14 runners so jocks get a rise basically when 90 per cent of workers getting no rise or deductions in pay .Owners reps should be all over that surely .

Your float fees should come down a bit though , gas is real  cheap . I suppose it is how hard people haggle . People keep paying the coin , people will keep taking it .

 

Who cares, at least the owner is finally getting a decent go by paying down to 14th. I like the concept, would prefer some certainty around the length of time it goes for but generally its something racing has needed to look at for a while. Why its taken a pandemic to get some initiative I'll never know.

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7 minutes ago, barryb said:

Why would it be low?

They will in general be 14 horse fields & be relatively even, creating nice betting opportunities I would have thought.

The new norm for a fair while is lower turnover yes, but all research shows the bigger the fields the better.

I hope iam totally wrong , hope it booms next season .However .

Wait until July when the reality of people' new  incomes, loss of jobs and businesses sets in   , substandard bog tracks , minimal formlines , average horses . Plus people betting on overseas accounts who add no income to NZ Tab  . Add in punters who have been off it who won't come back , those like me who now prefer better qualitg Australian racing day to day on  the punt , now getting to know the formlines , horses , jocks and trainers better who may not come back . 

It will be lower alright . 

 

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9 minutes ago, Huey said:

Who cares, at least the owner is finally getting a decent go by paying down to 14th. I like the concept, would prefer some certainty around the length of time it goes for but generally its something racing has needed to look at for a while. Why its taken a pandemic to get some initiative I'll never know.

No they are not they Huey, The owner gets about $90 in his pocket. I would rather reward the first 3 home than someone who ran 14th. 

Its penalising the winner of the race to pay for 14th.

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13 minutes ago, Huey said:

Who cares, at least the owner is finally getting a decent go by paying down to 14th. I like the concept, would prefer some certainty around the length of time it goes for but generally its something racing has needed to look at for a while. Why its taken a pandemic to get some initiative I'll never know.

Fair enuff Huey it chips away at costs but are the people that rep owners moving to see if a chipping away at costs along the whole chain to produce that horse oncourse . 3000 a months in region of plus or minus . How can that be chipped away at to get people into horses . If 10 people in the chain cut a few per cent , less fuel costs now if just that  is passed on  surely that kind of thing can happen for owners .

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31 minutes ago, barryb said:

No they are not they Huey, The owner gets about $90 in his pocket. I would rather reward the first 3 home than someone who ran 14th. 

Its penalising the winner of the race to pay for 14th.

Not me I believe participation is essential. Hopefully if one of yours runs 14th you send a cheque to the owner of the winner for that amount, you wouldn't want to feel guilty about it.

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11 minutes ago, GOM said:

There is no need to reward mediocrity

So you might as well just pay the entire 15k to the winner with that logic, the money helps with keeping people in the game its been needed for sometime a better spread and distribution of stakes money.

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30 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Fair enuff Huey it chips away at costs but are the people that rep owners moving to see if a chipping away at costs along the whole chain to produce that horse oncourse . 3000 a months in region of plus or minus . How can that be chipped away at to get people into horses . If 10 people in the chain cut a few per cent , less fuel costs now if just that  is passed on  surely that kind of thing can happen for owners .

Thats up to the trainer and individuals involved.

I find nothing more irksome than sending your horse to the races then getting an invoice for noms and acceptances, if this helps dissipate that occurrence I'm all for it.

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15 hours ago, rdytdy said:

HS. If you gave your runners hillwork reps, fartlek sessions, interval training, GBU's combined with some easy long undulating runs then one time trial would have you pretty well ready to go first up.  You wouldn't be peaking for some of the early season races anyway.  ;)

But yes, I do get your point that it is best left to the trainers to prepare their horses for the races in the manner they feel is right for the horse.   

Righteo Ted. Have you got a spare hill that you can lend me and move here?

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29 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Righteo Ted. Have you got a spare hill that you can lend me and move here?

I've got a run machine , I can set it on decent  incline , Big horse or small ?  small would fit better. 

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2 hours ago, barryb said:

No they are not they Huey, The owner gets about $90 in his pocket. I would rather reward the first 3 home than someone who ran 14th. 

Its penalising the winner of the race to pay for 14th.

Prior to covid winner of a 10k race received , $6250 .

Winner of a 15k race will receive , $8100 . 

All first 5 horses home will receive more than previously run 10k races .

Now 5th to 14th receive $300 , less 15% for trainer/jockey , leaving $255 for the owner .

Iv'e raced enough horses to know that after paying trainer and jockey costs then a float trip that even getting $255 for running unplaced would have been gratefully received , had a lot more run unplaced than in the money . That small amount every time a horse goes to the races will keep a lot more horses racing that otherwise would have been retired . I know that getting something for providing the product with an average horse i would have kept some going a little bit longer .

All the major racing jurisdictions pay back . I think Australia , Hong Kong have a fair idea what works .

Red Rums thread on Bryce Stanaways horses is a classic example how paying what is basically an appearance fee can help prolong horses careers and show owners that they are respected for what they provide . It will also keep more owners especially newer ones in racing . They will see they aren't always just forking out .

They say every extra horse in a race provides extra turnover , which in turn provides extra income to the racing industry , then more power to anything that keeps owners racing their horses is applauded by me .

NZTR doesn't get a lot right in my book but in this the have .

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3 minutes ago, nomates said:

Prior to covid winner of a 10k race received , $6250 .

Winner of a 15k race will receive , $8100 . 

Now 5th to 14th receive $300 , less 15% for trainer/jockey , leaving $255 for the owner .

Its only relevant what you get in your hand after costs are deducted, as thats the money you have to pay next months training fees. 

As an example if the race was still $10k & at the new % the starting point would drop from $6250 to $5400 costing the owners $850 to reward someones horse whom  finished 14th. Hmmm fair? I don't think so. & to insult further for running 14th the Trainer and Jockey get rewarded.

It smacks of kids sports where we reward participation rather than achievement.

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Just now, barryb said:

Its only relevant what you get in your hand after costs are deducted, as thats the money you have to pay next months training fees. 

As an example if the race was still $10k & at the new % the starting point would drop from $6250 to $5400 costing the owners $850 to reward someones horse whom  finished 14th. Hmmm fair? I don't think so. & to insult further for running 14th the Trainer and Jockey get rewarded.

It smacks of kids sports where we reward participation rather than achievement.

Mate those figures were given for the 15k races for july , we'll have to wait and see for further down the road . If they do drop back to 10k then they wont keep those %'s . If 1,2,3,4th stakes stayed the same at 10k , $6250 , $2000 , $1000 , $500 , but gave the 5th to 14th horses $300 then the overall stake would only have to increase to 12.5k . That should be doable .

I do tend to agree re rewarding for poor training / jockey but not sure on the answer to that  , numbers aren't big enough to get me  bolshy about it tho . I'd still be too stoked at getting $255 back .

And if only participating in racing a horse was as cheap as participating in kids sport , i'd be all in . 

We have to do something about growing ownership , as much as turnover is a major issue , the declining owners is right up there .

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28 minutes ago, nomates said:

Prior to covid winner of a 10k race received , $6250 .

Winner of a 15k race will receive , $8100 . 

All first 5 horses home will receive more than previously run 10k races .

Now 5th to 14th receive $300 , less 15% for trainer/jockey , leaving $255 for the owner .

Iv'e raced enough horses to know that after paying trainer and jockey costs then a float trip that even getting $255 for running unplaced would have been gratefully received , had a lot more run unplaced than in the money . That small amount every time a horse goes to the races will keep a lot more horses racing that otherwise would have been retired . I know that getting something for providing the product with an average horse i would have kept some going a little bit longer .

All the major racing jurisdictions pay back . I think Australia , Hong Kong have a fair idea what works .

Red Rums thread on Bryce Stanaways horses is a classic example how paying what is basically an appearance fee can help prolong horses careers and show owners that they are respected for what they provide . It will also keep more owners especially newer ones in racing . They will see they aren't always just forking out .

They say every extra horse in a race provides extra turnover , which in turn provides extra income to the racing industry , then more power to anything that keeps owners racing their horses is applauded by me .

NZTR doesn't get a lot right in my book but in this the have .

Bryce Stanaway,  plenty in next few days collecting 630 AUD  most times they go out . 

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