Blue 1,085 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 On 5/1/2020 at 7:43 AM, barryb said: The winning owners take home at $15k is around $6725 after % and riding fee. Rider & Trainer % deducted from the $300 for 5th-14th is madness, whats the point in giving owners less than $100 in there hand for running 14th. I understand the above and also that with less meetings than the norm and thus a lot less races, fields will theoretically be bigger. However we're getting to the part of the season July, August, September where changing track conditions, heavy rain, tracks maybe not standing up so well will mean a heap of scratchings. Traditionally less than half the fields during that period have 14 starters so with, say, a field of six runners, do the percentages change to pay out the full $15K or does the stake actually reduce to $12,600 (8 non-runners @ $300 ea)? Be interesting to see how many abandonments this year too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Blue said: I understand the above and also that with less meetings than the norm and thus a lot less races, fields will theoretically be bigger. However we're getting to the part of the season July, August, September where changing track conditions, heavy rain, tracks maybe not standing up so well will mean a heap of scratchings. Traditionally less than half the fields during that period have 14 starters so with, say, a field of six runners, do the percentages change to pay out the full $15K or does the stake actually reduce to $12,600 (8 non-runners @ $300 ea)? Be interesting to see how many abandonments this year too. The full amount gets paid out. Any left over from less than 14 starters goes to the winner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 I don't think that's right. Payouts from 6th to last will be made. if the field is less than 14 the actual stake will be reduced accordingly fermoy and nomates 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,010 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, We're Doomed said: The full amount gets paid out. Any left over from less than 14 starters goes to the winner. That's correct. We're Doomed 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,010 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, Stables said: I don't think that's right. Payouts from 6th to last will be made. if the field is less than 14 the actual stake will be reduced accordingly The payments for horses finishing 5th-14th are considered stake money payments (not starters incentives). Accordingly, rider and trainer percentages will be deducted from the amount paid. •Where starting limits or starter numbers for a race are less than 14, the‘excess’ stake money will be allocated to the first-placegetter/s of that race (e.g.if the starting limit is 12, the amount that would have been paid to the horses finishing 13th and 14th will be paid to the first placegetter(s)). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 Okay, you're right I apologise. I was assuming they operated on the same system as Harness Racing We're Doomed and fermoy 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 Surely this model of racing has got to be good for NZTR also, with them able to take the riders fee out of stakes reducing that horrific outstanding balance of $1m or such figure, well not adding to it in most cases. dock leaf and Leggy 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,010 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Huey said: Surely this model of racing has got to be good for NZTR also, with them able to take the riders fee out of stakes reducing that horrific outstanding balance of $1m or such figure, well not adding to it in most cases. It also deals with what originally killed free racing when it appeared to be a successful initiative which was that trainers rebelled because there was $4-5m p.a. of potential stake money on which they were no longer getting their 10%. Took a while to work out the solution. Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uneasy 497 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 Not all trainers agreed to the doing away of free racing, that’s one of the reasons I Withdrew from NZTA at the time. I didn’t agree with the then Presidents attitude on several matters. fermoy and Huey 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,010 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, uneasy said: Not all trainers agreed to the doing away of free racing, that’s one of the reasons I Withdrew from NZTA at the time. I didn’t agree with the then Presidents attitude on several matters. Insignificant but me too Nevertheless, this resolves the problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 The problem that you have folks is that when the stakes were higher than this July offering, the game didn't work. Racing needs to completely change itself to make itself relevant and until that time happens, same ol same ol. tasman man 11 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,010 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Berri said: The problem that you have folks is that when the stakes were higher than this July offering, the game didn't work. Racing needs to completely change itself to make itself relevant and until that time happens, same ol same ol. What's your point? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 I doubt trainers would be entitled to 10% if your horse finishes further back than 5th fermoy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,010 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, Stables said: I doubt trainers would be entitled to 10% if your horse finishes further back than 5th Of course they will. That's why the clear statement in here: The payments for horses finishing 5th-14th are considered stake money payments Stake money payments all go 10% to trainer and 5% to jockey. It's in the Rules of Racing Stables for heaven's sake. That's why they have done it like this.. 4) Subject to Rule 505A, NZTR, on behalf of a Club, shall pay to a Trainer a sum of money, being (as set out in Rule 503(2)) 10% of the gross stakes (exclusive of trophies, prizes and the value of any awards or rights) credited to a horse for a particular Race while trained by that Trainer, fermoy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 1,085 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Stables said: Okay, you're right I apologise. I was assuming they operated on the same system as Harness Racing Me too. Thanks for answering my query. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 I'm glad I don't race gallopers then, obviously galloping trainers are even more avaricious than Harness trainers. Owners have little enough chance to cover costs as it is fermoy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,010 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 14 minutes ago, Stables said: I'm glad I don't race gallopers then, obviously galloping trainers are even more avaricious than Harness trainers. Owners have little enough chance to cover costs as it is If you change your mind I'm sure we can find one for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,537 Report post Posted May 3, 2020 10 hours ago, Stables said: I'm glad I don't race gallopers then, obviously galloping trainers are even more avaricious than Harness trainers. Owners have little enough chance to cover costs as it is Not all. But the choice was not [ as far as I know ] given to trainers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...