Cambridge AWT

[Chris Wood 1,576]

As it is many many years ago since CAMBRIDGE had a Racecourse, is it fair to say that any Matamata, Waipa, TeAroha etc horse that wins a trial or a race on their home course cops your 10% levy to?
What next, just about everybody that is lucky enough to get a sale on a horse and makes a dollar out of it, tends to reinvest and go again....

 

[Nukkledragga 229]

4 hours ago, Red Rum said:

It's a really good surface for following form if horses go around it regularly,  honestly it must be better than bog track racing in winter with inconsistent tracks. The Yanks do their own thing but most other countries have the AWT tracks , even Chantilly have a polytrack now for winter racing .

In order for that to be relevant you would need heaps of awt racing... at the expense of normal racing somewhere else, also judging by aussie racing, the form, good or bad is not any good ,any where else.

[Red Rum 1,833]

26 minutes ago, Nukkledragga said:

In order for that to be relevant you would need heaps of awt racing... at the expense of normal racing somewhere else, also judging by aussie racing, the form, good or bad is not any good ,any where else.

Synthetic to Turf is closer than dirt to turf . But your right  it works well with a pool of horses and heaps of awt racing  with horses that race  on it week in week out up and down grades,  that is doubtful it will happen here . The handicap system needs to be more on to it as well. Some obviously perform better on one  or other , a lot not much different . UK had them 30 plus years , run two handicap marks one synthetic one turf . A lot of horses that are well exposed  the mark is the same , a horse like Alpha Tauri for example  is different . He's  14 now run 100 plus on synthetic for 10 or so wins , 13 starts turf for nothing . So he's well exposed gets a 52 on synthetic and 38 on turf .  Here they will switch more often so it will be guesswork to start off I suppose .

[slam dunk 1,317]

3 hours ago, Chris Wood said:

As it is many many years ago since CAMBRIDGE had a Racecourse, is it fair to say that any Matamata, Waipa, TeAroha etc horse that wins a trial or a race on their home course cops your 10% levy to?
What next, just about everybody that is lucky enough to get a sale on a horse and makes a dollar out of it, tends to reinvest and go again....

 

Well look at professional sport. These teams take on juniors that take a year or two to reach the A grade. During that time those players use all the facilities, coaches etc. Do you think the club would give away the most promising players for nothing.

No there is a fee. Instead of NZB or Bloodstock agents creaming the 10% perhaps the real worthy contributor should get some benefit.

[slam dunk 1,317]

Could I just add to the above. Cambridge trainers will likely have no problems getting extra clients and perhaps better quality horses. Also those trainers with racing properties near the track could well experience 10% rise in value. 

[Chris Wood 1,576]

And we owe that to NZ Racing because we invested wisely, your dreaming Jonesy!

[Baz (NZ) 1,722]

Sadly the Cambridge All Weather Track won't be of a Strathayr surface. This was the chance to create a worldclass facility and racetrack. Unfortunately I feel the industry has rushed in half arsed and this will not fix racing's problems in it's current form. Sadly this will introduce boring racing and disengage punters. We need to think Moonee Valley as a targeted goal and end result.

https://strathayrsolutions.com/turf-solutions/

[Leggy 4,076]

Agree about the Strathayr if we want a track for racing.

Why would you spend $13m on a Polytrack when we have this for free all round the nation? Maintenance cost? Zero.

 

[slam dunk 1,317]

9 hours ago, Leggy said:

Agree about the Strathayr if we want a track for racing.

Why would you spend $13m on a Polytrack when we have this for free all round the nation? Maintenance cost? Zero.

 

Never got interested in the AWT debate before  but just a cursory examination this looks like another dumb racing decision. 

Bit like setting Avondale up as NZ's prime training centre.

Berri actually came up with one of the best ideas I've seen on Racecafe. That is setting up a Newmarket style complex if suitable land made available. Certainly not on the edge of Cambridge where the land is very valuable for housing. Just a quick look at Google maps shows how the town is expanding. No young trainer will be able to afford land there and those who are going to reap rewards of increased property values probably have no interest in racing. Thats real smart  i'm sure give away racings big business advantage.

Auckland shopping mall complex developers start by buying big then selling off  properties around the perimeter to help fund the exercise. Did NZTR or NZRB seek the advice like the owner of Sylvia Park complex for advice? I believe he is a keen racing enthusiast.

Leggy you are probably right about the makeup of the track. Overall Cambridge AWT makes up the treble of dumb ideas. Typhoon and FOB platform being the first two legs.

[Archer 296]

Don't more horses break down on these surfaces ? 

[crustyngrizzly 1,700]

2 hours ago, slam dunk said:

Never got interested in the AWT debate before  but just a cursory examination this looks like another dumb racing decision. 

Bit like setting Avondale up as NZ's prime training centre.

Berri actually came up with one of the best ideas I've seen on Racecafe. That is setting up a Newmarket style complex if suitable land made available. Certainly not on the edge of Cambridge where the land is very valuable for housing. Just a quick look at Google maps shows how the town is expanding. No young trainer will be able to afford land there and those who are going to reap rewards of increased property values probably have no interest in racing. Thats real smart  i'm sure give away racings big business advantage.

Auckland shopping mall complex developers start by buying big then selling off  properties around the perimeter to help fund the exercise. Did NZTR or NZRB seek the advice like the owner of Sylvia Park complex for advice? I believe he is a keen racing enthusiast.

Leggy you are probably right about the makeup of the track. Overall Cambridge AWT makes up the treble of dumb ideas. Typhoon and FOB platform being the first two legs.

Over the last 20/30 years nz race clubs have done exactly the opposite to what shopping mall developers have done.

They have all sold land for short term gains when they should have been buying.

 

[slam dunk 1,317]

23 hours ago, crustyngrizzly said:

Over the last 20/30 years nz race clubs have done exactly the opposite to what shopping mall developers have done.

They have all sold land for short term gains when they should have been buying.

 

There just seems total inertia in racing to any ideas outside the established protocols. 

Take Avondale for example. Basically its a lost cause yet the land extremely valuable. North of Auckland and also west there has been massive development plus an influx of populace. A significant percentage of NZ population. Surrounding that many livestyle blocks certainly suitable for owner trainer settups. Yet devoid of any racetrack.

I'm not saying there is suitable land for a racetrack. All i'm saying the club and NZ racing hierarchy has made no effort to find out. Maybe Dairy Flat could be OK i don't know.  But selling Avondale and reinvesting into a viable racing and/or training complex deserves some consideration. Instead all racing officials have been lulled into reliance on the gambling dollar which is becoming scarce.

As for Cambridge most meeting cancellations occur for reasons which cannot be circumvented. Even if its because of weather or flooding then the Cambridge meeting won't be very appealing anyway. With an abundance of racecourses in NZ the spending on Cambridge hardly justified.

[Huey 2,037]

28 minutes ago, slam dunk said:

There just seems total inertia in racing to any ideas outside the established protocols. 

Take Avondale for example. Basically its a lost cause yet the land extremely valuable. North of Auckland and also west there has been massive development plus an influx of populace. A significant percentage of NZ population. Surrounding that many livestyle blocks certainly suitable for owner trainer settups. Yet devoid of any racetrack.

I'm not saying there is suitable land for a racetrack. All i'm saying the club and NZ racing hierarchy has made no effort to find out. Maybe Dairy Flat could be OK i don't know.  But selling Avondale and reinvesting into a viable racing and/or training complex deserves some consideration. Instead all racing officials have been lulled into reliance on the gambling dollar which is becoming scarce.

As for Cambridge most meeting cancellations occur for reasons which cannot be circumvented. Even if its because of weather or flooding then the Cambridge meeting won't be very appealing anyway. With an abundance of racecourses in NZ the spending on Cambridge hardly justified.

Probably difficult to see anything happening in that regard because clubs like Avondale don't trust those running the industry and can you blame them for feeling that way given how they have been treated. A lot of racings problems have been bought on itself, a lot of the solutions are comical .

For me the website  cost and maintenance of it has pushed the industry over the edge probably quicker than it should have been, thats the biggest white elephant in racing but everyone wants to have a go at the current RITA leadership.

[Red Rum 1,833]

20 minutes ago, Huey said:

Probably difficult to see anything happening in that regard because clubs like Avondale don't trust those running the industry and can you blame them for feeling that way given how they have been treated. A lot of racings problems have been bought on itself, a lot of the solutions are comical .

For me the website  cost and maintenance of it has pushed the industry over the edge probably quicker than it should have been, thats the biggest white elephant in racing but everyone wants to have a go at the current RITA leadership.

Odd thing is Paddy Power website is like turning a page , click  click click, maybe they use the money TAB pay to speed up their site .

[Scanman 38]

Wonder why they went with Polytrack instead of Tapeta.  Much of what I read and my experience owning a Tapeta specialist, leads to the conclusion that Tapeta is best of all the synthetic surfaces.  Woodbine (Canada) and Wolverhampton (UK) have switched and Turfway Park (USA) is switching from Polytrack to Tapeta.  The latest synthetic track built in the UK, Newcastle, has also opted for Tapeta.  Devonport in Tasmania also has a Tapeta surface.  Polytrack is adequate, but is inferior to Tapeta.  Doesn't make sense to me.  If NZ Racing is going to experiement with a synthetic surface, why not put down the best on offer.  Perhaps, it was a budget/cost issue.  If anyone knows, I would be curious to hear what went into the thought process. 

[Insider 3,945]

50 minutes ago, Scanman said:

Wonder why they went with Polytrack instead of Tapeta.  Much of what I read and my experience owning a Tapeta specialist, leads to the conclusion that Tapeta is best of all the synthetic surfaces.  Woodbine (Canada) and Wolverhampton (UK) have switched and Turfway Park (USA) is switching from Polytrack to Tapeta.  The latest synthetic track built in the UK, Newcastle, has also opted for Tapeta.  Devonport in Tasmania also has a Tapeta surface.  Polytrack is adequate, but is inferior to Tapeta.  Doesn't make sense to me.  If NZ Racing is going to experiement with a synthetic surface, why not put down the best on offer.  Perhaps, it was a budget/cost issue.  If anyone knows, I would be curious to hear what went into the thought process. 

I will tell you what I was told when I asked that very question of one of the decision makers. 
“Poly track is based in Australia and has a team there, so that’s our backup”.

At that stage I stopped myself from bringing up Tapeta which any inquiring mind would know is a superior product. 

I could have bought up Devonport, but I thought... what’s the use the decision is already made. 

If only people were more worldly, better read or asked more questions our industry wouldn’t be in the shit that we are!

Liz

[We're Doomed 4,855]

31 minutes ago, Insider said:

I will tell you what I was told when I asked that very question of one of the decision makers. 
“Poly track is based in Australia and has a team there, so that’s our backup”.

At that stage I stopped myself from bringing up Tapeta which any inquiring mind would know is a superior product. 

I could have bought up Devonport, but I thought... what’s the use the decision is already made. 

If only people were more worldly, better read or asked more questions our industry wouldn’t be in the shit that we are!

Liz

Are you trying to tell us they didn't send a fact finding committee around the world to observe all of the potential surfaces Liz? I'm stunned.

[Insider 3,945]

2 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Are you trying to tell us they didn't send a fact finding committee around the world to observe all of the potential surfaces Liz? I'm stunned.

Exactly. 
To the best of my knowledge their enquires were limited to Australia, and probably excluded Tasmania. (Sadly)

[Scanman 38]

7 hours ago, Insider said:

I will tell you what I was told when I asked that very question of one of the decision makers. 
“Poly track is based in Australia and has a team there, so that’s our backup”.

At that stage I stopped myself from bringing up Tapeta which any inquiring mind would know is a superior product. 

I could have bought up Devonport, but I thought... what’s the use the decision is already made. 

If only people were more worldly, better read or asked more questions our industry wouldn’t be in the shit that we are!

Liz

Very well said Liz.  Sounds like you were never going to get a proper answer.  As for Polytrack being based in Australia, there is limited evidence of that.  The corporate office for Polytrack is in the UK, where it was developed.  They have an office in the US and I guess now in Australia.  As for Australian tracks using Polytrack, only two have it as a racing surface.  Pakenham (installed 2015)  and they were having trouble with it as early as 2019; and Ballarat (installed 2019).  Perhaps, it has widespread use as a training surface, but I could only find it being used at Randwick and Caulfield.

I hope NZ Racing doesn't regret the decision opting for Polytrack.  You only have one chance to make a first impression.  I applaud the move to put down a synthetic track for racing and I guess that one would also be placed on the South Island.  They do serve a purpose and in the case of Tapeta is extremely safe and beneficial to racing overall.  There will always be those synthetic surface detractors, but they will adapt to it in time.

[Red Rum 1,833]

10 hours ago, Scanman said:

Very well said Liz.  Sounds like you were never going to get a proper answer.  As for Polytrack being based in Australia, there is limited evidence of that.  The corporate office for Polytrack is in the UK, where it was developed.  They have an office in the US and I guess now in Australia.  As for Australian tracks using Polytrack, only two have it as a racing surface.  Pakenham (installed 2015)  and they were having trouble with it as early as 2019; and Ballarat (installed 2019).  Perhaps, it has widespread use as a training surface, but I could only find it being used at Randwick and Caulfield.

I hope NZ Racing doesn't regret the decision opting for Polytrack.  You only have one chance to make a first impression.  I applaud the move to put down a synthetic track for racing and I guess that one would also be placed on the South Island.  They do serve a purpose and in the case of Tapeta is extremely safe and beneficial to racing overall.  There will always be those synthetic surface detractors, but they will adapt to it in time.

Cranbourne moved to the poly tonight at Pakenham .

[Scanman 38]

1 hour ago, Red Rum said:

Cranbourne moved to the poly tonight at Pakenham .

Classic case supporting the need for an alternative, synthetic surface.  Geelong also abandoned due to the state of the track (Wangaratta the same yesterday).  They must has received a lot of rain in Victoria.  With Pakenham having lights, they had time to transfer the meeting.  Hopefully, the powers that be will have the presence of mind to add lights to Cambridge.  Wondering if that is in the works.

[We're Doomed 4,855]

2 hours ago, Scanman said:

Classic case supporting the need for an alternative, synthetic surface.  Geelong also abandoned due to the state of the track (Wangaratta the same yesterday).  They must has received a lot of rain in Victoria.  With Pakenham having lights, they had time to transfer the meeting.  Hopefully, the powers that be will have the presence of mind to add lights to Cambridge.  Wondering if that is in the works.

I thought Geelong was an all weather track. Not  a good advertisement for the all weather. And if it was scheduled for the turf why didn't they just move it next door?

We are already wasting enough money at Cambridge without adding lights to the list.

[Red Rum 1,833]

34 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

I thought Geelong was an all weather track. Not  a good advertisement for the all weather. And if it was scheduled for the turf why didn't they just move it next door?

We are already wasting enough money at Cambridge without adding lights to the list.

Was torn up at Geelong WD and moved to Ballarat.  Well I don't think they moved the old  sand and stuff but on paper it moved  if you get my drift . My understanding is they didn't go deep enough with the layers at Geelong so they had problems but stand to be corrected on that .

 

[We're Doomed 4,855]

7 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Was torn up at Geelong WD and moved to Ballarat.  Well I don't think they moved the old  sand and stuff but on paper it moved  if you get my drift . My understanding is they didn't go deep enough with the layers at Geelong so they had problems but stand to be corrected on that .

 

I didn't know that. Shows how time flies. I see some trainers are pleased to see it gone.

[Chris Wood 1,576]

Lights all in the plans, should be a great asset!