Are Trainers supporting the Trainers Association

[Aaron Bidlake 760]

That's pretty sad if there was no desire from Nztr. Maybe someone could do it independently with some government funding and then the stables who take on the trainee  pay a fee to the school. 

[Red Rum 1,833]

37 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

Sad.  What show is there with that attitude. 

Unfortunately on the sport news for the nation when racing held court this week was a top trainer saying he won't train his horses unless he gets more money or is off to OZ with others , and another top trainer  saying he's owed a handout . Iam  no PR expert but that won't go down well,  with some people doing it tough when the TAB still operated during lockdown.  Remember to most horses running on a TV is horses running on a TV , they have no interest where .

Racing needs to fit it's recovery plans up to a point with what  govenment plans are , plans for future engaging of youth in the workforce would be a start and healthy for racing to get fresh workers in .Public might see a benefit .

[Stables 577]

I thought Noel Harris was in charge of apprentice training at one stage

[nomates 3,608]

The biggest issue the industry has in attracting youth to look at racing as a career is the past participants . Just like someone who has a bad experience as an owner , they tell their story to their circle of friends and associates , then the same with people who have tried the industry and not had good experience . They wont let their kids get involved , they tell their friends not to let their kids try it .  It's is a tough game to work in and there are a lot of good employers but as in any industry there are plenty of bad ones . Myself personally , i've seen a lot of verbal abuse , seen physical bullying , heard threats made to people , heard some terrible racial abuse . I have seen young people reduced to tears . I have often stepped in where i think people have overstepped the mark and the person on the end of the abuse can't defend themselves . But the problem is people get out and moved on to something else but they don't forget . I known lots of people over the years about their time in racing , some i have worked with , some i've just talked to about it and they have all said the same thing , they would advise a young person not to get involved . The industry does a lot of good things but as with any thing in life people always remember the bad stuff and use that as their barometer when making a decision .

[Cobba 31]

So 100's of horses have arrived back at stables today & the blacksmiths are flat out shoeing them all. Send those bills to the owners. Then we hear from RITA tomorrow or whenever they choose to share their information with us, that we are racing for $5000. There will doubtless be a long & loud outcry from the trainers but .... I can already hear them saying "the horses are here now & we've got all the staff back so we might as well just carry on."

RITA has nicely called the bluff of all of them.

Had the horses stayed in their paddocks this week it would have made little difference to the trainers bottom line for the week but saved the owners a few hundy per horse & there was some ammo on the side of owners & trainers. But na. The trainers all want the advantage of returning to work earliest to get racing soonest. Bad move. Pike has copped plenty at times as the President of the Trainers Assoc. but when he has a strategy in place, any support out there? No. Not even from the trainers that have been so out spoken previously that we need to strike. Was now not the perfect time to withhold the product? 

Stake levels might not have been able to be challenged right now because the income dried up due to Coronavirus but the very least we might have got some traction on holding RITA & other racing administrations to account over their excessive staff numbers & salaries & various other expenditure.

Well played RITA.

[Red Rum 1,833]

9 minutes ago, Cobba said:

So 100's of horses have arrived back at stables today & the blacksmiths are flat out shoeing them all. Send those bills to the owners. Then we hear from RITA tomorrow or whenever they choose to share their information with us, that we are racing for $5000. There will doubtless be a long & loud outcry from the trainers but .... I can already hear them saying "the horses are here now & we've got all the staff back so we might as well just carry on."

RITA has nicely called the bluff of all of them.

Had the horses stayed in their paddocks this week it would have made little difference to the trainers bottom line for the week but saved the owners a few hundy per horse & there was some ammo on the side of owners & trainers. But na. The trainers all want the advantage of returning to work earliest to get racing soonest. Bad move. Pike has copped plenty at times as the President of the Trainers Assoc. but when he has a strategy in place, any support out there? No. Not even from the trainers that have been so out spoken previously that we need to strike. Was now not the perfect time to withhold the product? 

Stake levels might not have been able to be challenged right now because the income dried up due to Coronavirus but the very least we might have got some traction on holding RITA & other racing administrations to account over their excessive staff numbers & salaries & various other expenditure.

Well played RITA.

Is he the only big trainer  not getting back into it , or has he changed his mind . I can understand him  changing his mind if the support has gone, he would have his honour intact in these circumstances surely .  Looks a terrible mess of a union . Maybe they are in,  stabled but the withhold part is only in light exercise ? Just trying to be charitable. Maybe it's we will try our best but if meeting don't go right the horses are back on picket line , in that respect the union can be shown to have shown a degree of good faith in their bargaining  I suppose . 

[nomates 3,608]

2 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Is he the only big trainer  not getting back into it , or has he changed his mind . I can understand him  changing his mind if the support has gone, he would have his honour intact in these circumstances surely .  Looks a terrible mess of a union . Maybe they are in,  stabled but the withhold part is only in light exercise ? Just trying to be charitable. Maybe it's we will try our best but if meeting don't go right the horses are back on picket line , in that respect the union can be shown to have shown a degree of good faith in their bargaining  I suppose . 

Unfortunately for Pike he made his charge to late and up until his statements last week he had been invisible as the head of the trainers . He is the continuation of a list of piss poor trainers assn presidents over the last god knows how many years . Trainers are forced to join the assn to get their licence , even owner trainers , but i know for a fact 80% wouldn't if given a choice . There was a time owner trainers weren't allowed to join , that's how desperate they became for members .

[Leggy 4,089]

5 hours ago, Red Rum said:

I think Aaron  might mean  in  future at some point if racing recovers not  tomorrow or next week  , I think the way the govenment  recovery is going to be framed by PM going by  comments in news today is  it will be focused on youth, youth is pretty far from racing at the moment so racing better  scribble some notes  down quick sharp for future if it survives next few months  . Agree with govenment or not it's the one in power so calls the tune , racing calls nothing the position it's in .

Yes and they have also said they will tailor business support towards small businesses that are otherwise viable. So those notes will need to be pretty creative.

[Pam Robson 1,551]

There was a mention in an NZTA  newsletter that ' many of the executive are leaving their horses out until there is some surely about stakes '   or words to that effect.

At no time was there a universal request to withhold product.

[puha 2,177]

On 4/27/2020 at 9:32 AM, Garfield said:

First of all I applaud Tony Pikes stance against the lack of transparency and information coming from RITA. His call for trainers not to return horses to training until we get more info from RITA to me comes at a good time when most trainers and their staff are at least being supported by the wage subsidy scheme. Tony states that many on the executive will not be bringing horses back into the stables until we all have some clarity on the future but my concern is I have only seen one trainer (Roger James) publicly support Tony Pike.

What I would like to know is what trainers are supporting this call? Baker/Forsman? Marsh? Te Akau? O’Sullivan/Scott? Pitmans? Etc. Is Roger James following through with his support?

Is Tony Pike following his own advice and leaving his stables empty?

If the trainers don’t follow through with their recommendations and start filling their stables tomorrow morning it will just prove to RITA that their is no unity between them and that the Trainers Association are just making more empty threats as they have in the past.

 

I see you’ve meantioned all the high profile guys ? That’s part of the problem the smaller guys are generally overlooked .Plus each training operation is different to the next hence the fractured responses. For example if I own 90 % of my own horses why wouldn’t I start taking them to the track ASAP ? 

[Rusty 575]

Tweet dated 28 April... 

[JJ Flash 2,136]

Isn't. NZTA part funded by none other than NZTR?  Now we all know that the latter body has been rather good at spending money on poor CEO's and other extravagances for many years. It has a chairman who has been MIA for years and who was by some accounts bitterly disappointed at being over looked for top RITA position. Might it be that the latest outburst from Pike and co was instigated by someone other than himself. Join the dots people and you might come to the same conclusion as a few of us a re now reaching.

The politics suggest someone or group has  been undermining attempts to change direction the Minister and RITA wanted , it was obvious with the NZTR select committee submission and their very negative views on the new Act

Lets see where this all ends up but methinks there is a lot going on behind the scenes.

 

Greg

[Nerula 1,403]

Greg all sector groups get support from NZTR to keep communications to the participants going. Owners not much and Trainers less

I can tell you Owners are supporters generally of NZTR efforts. But that support does not extend to towing a line. I edited the now suspended Owners Bulletin for 10 years and maintained independence all the time.. I will have a crack at anyone who suggests otherwise.

You are wrong to suggest that sector groups are trying to undermine what the Minister and RITA wanted to do with the Messara Report.  It is the bureaucrats who have written the bill to capture the industry that have "screwed the scrum".

You are right there is a lot going on behind the scenes and one side is being worked by people who are unpaid. Please get off their back!

The bald truth - TAB / RITA are broke. They want a bailout from Government but the Govt are busy right now bailing out others. Winnie comes back to Welly from his beach place so there might be some answers soon.

What the sector group are doing with pressure is to find answers. The OIA may do that.

[Chris Wood 1,577]

Sadly we sold the Trainers Association down the road when we linked up with NZTR......

[Leggy 4,089]

22 minutes ago, Chris Wood said:

Sadly we sold the Trainers Association down the road when we linked up with NZTR......

Yes. The conflict of interest is unethical if not illegal. Like a union being funded by its employers and I think, despite Nerula's comments that the TA is fully funded by NZTR, not just receiving some administrative assistance.

[JJ Flash 2,136]

1 hour ago, Chris Wood said:

Sadly we sold the Trainers Association down the road when we linked up with NZTR......

Thanks Chris , you are on the money straight away

 

Greg

[JJ Flash 2,136]

1 hour ago, Leggy said:

Yes. The conflict of interest is unethical if not illegal. Like a union being funded by its employers and I think, despite Nerula's comments that the TA is fully funded by NZTR, not just receiving some administrative assistance.

Correct. I hope others find this conversation educational. There is bound to be  more to come.

 

Greg

[JJ Flash 2,136]

2 hours ago, Nerula said:

You are wrong to suggest that sector groups are trying to undermine what the Minister and RITA wanted to do with the Messara Report.  It is the bureaucrats who have written the bill to capture the industry that have "screwed the scrum".

Lets revisit your thoughts in the future, Not all sector groups are involved my scenario only refers to NZTR

 

Greg

[Leggy 4,089]

3 hours ago, Nerula said:

You are wrong to suggest that sector groups are trying to undermine what the Minister and RITA wanted to do with the Messara Report.  It is the bureaucrats who have written the bill to capture the industry that have "screwed the scrum".

Maybe, or maybe they have straightened it and pushed the 'Industry' team off the ball. Let's wait and see which side the ball comes out and whether or not a penalty is awarded.

[Huey 2,037]

1 hour ago, Leggy said:

Maybe, or maybe they have straightened it and pushed the 'Industry' team off the ball. Let's wait and see which side the ball comes out and whether or not a penalty is awarded.

Scrum will probably collapse before the ball comes out.

[nomates 3,608]

1 hour ago, Leggy said:

Maybe, or maybe they have straightened it and pushed the 'Industry' team off the ball. Let's wait and see which side the ball comes out and whether or not a penalty is awarded.

Who gets the penalty ? RITA of course , Winnies the ref .

[Nerula 1,403]

4 hours ago, Leggy said:

Yes. The conflict of interest is unethical if not illegal. Like a union being funded by its employers and I think, despite Nerula's comments that the TA is fully funded by NZTR, not just receiving some administrative assistance.

Cmon Leggy you are better than that! nowhere did I say FULLY funded. I dont know what the situation is with Trainers but Owners are NOT fully funded 

[Leggy 4,089]

2 minutes ago, Nerula said:

Cmon Leggy you are better than that! nowhere did I say FULLY funded. I dont know what the situation is with Trainers but Owners are NOT fully funded 

Yes, but the TA is. I appreciate that the OF pay their own way and are not beholden to NZTR. Your post suggested that the TA was the same. It's not.

[Pam Robson 1,551]

1 hour ago, Leggy said:

Yes, but the TA is. I appreciate that the OF pay their own way and are not beholden to NZTR. Your post suggested that the TA was the same. It's not.

Many years ago I'm pretty sure that NZTR added $10 to every registration charge for the owners' federation. 

[Leggy 4,089]

12 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

Many years ago I'm pretty sure that NZTR added $10 to every registration charge for the owners' federation. 

What? Trainers are funding the Owners' Federation when they can't even fund their own Association? Surely not. Is that true Nerula?