Garfield 3 Report post Posted April 26, 2020 First of all I applaud Tony Pikes stance against the lack of transparency and information coming from RITA. His call for trainers not to return horses to training until we get more info from RITA to me comes at a good time when most trainers and their staff are at least being supported by the wage subsidy scheme. Tony states that many on the executive will not be bringing horses back into the stables until we all have some clarity on the future but my concern is I have only seen one trainer (Roger James) publicly support Tony Pike. What I would like to know is what trainers are supporting this call? Baker/Forsman? Marsh? Te Akau? O’Sullivan/Scott? Pitmans? Etc. Is Roger James following through with his support? Is Tony Pike following his own advice and leaving his stables empty? If the trainers don’t follow through with their recommendations and start filling their stables tomorrow morning it will just prove to RITA that their is no unity between them and that the Trainers Association are just making more empty threats as they have in the past. jack, arjay and TurnyTom 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyisit 227 Report post Posted April 26, 2020 Maybe some have horses in their stable who’s owners are on the RITA board. Leaves them in a catch 22 position. would be nice to see some word from them on a united front. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redoute's Choice 16 Report post Posted April 26, 2020 You would hope that we see a united front by the trainers and they get behind Tony Pike. The point of what he is saying should be (and assumably is) a majority view of the trainers he represents. In the best interest of the industry they are behind him. You would assume he is speaking on behalf of the general consensus of thought amongst the training community and would expect them to do what they need to do as a show of solidarity. There does seem to be a few mixed messages in the media from other trainers though which isn't a good sign. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerula 1,389 Report post Posted April 26, 2020 59 minutes ago, Garfield said: First of all I applaud Tony Pikes stance against the lack of transparency and information coming from RITA. His call for trainers not to return horses to training until we get more info from RITA to me comes at a good time when most trainers and their staff are at least being supported by the wage subsidy scheme. Tony states that many on the executive will not be bringing horses back into the stables until we all have some clarity on the future but my concern is I have only seen one trainer (Roger James) publicly support Tony Pike. What I would like to know is what trainers are supporting this call? Baker/Forsman? Marsh? Te Akau? O’Sullivan/Scott? Pitmans? Etc. Is Roger James following through with his support? Is Tony Pike following his own advice and leaving his stables empty? If the trainers don’t follow through with their recommendations and start filling their stables tomorrow morning it will just prove to RITA that their is no unity between them and that the Trainers Association are just making more empty threats as they have in the past. Phone them up and ask them. the numbers are on the NZTR site. Then you could ring the Secretary Wendy Cooper. i would suggest dont ring Tony Pike. He like the sector group heads are more than busy trying to find out stuff from people that dont want to tell. These Sector people are unpaid and they may have no time for dumb questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 Absolutely the industry are behind this stance https://loveracing.nz/News/30212/AnxiousMarshwelcomesgoodnumbersback.aspx Red Rum and Whyisit 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 34 minutes ago, Huey said: Absolutely the industry are behind this stance https://loveracing.nz/News/30212/AnxiousMarshwelcomesgoodnumbersback.aspx Just like the miners strike these guys or maybe not so tough as the miners, yes that's it not so hard that's correct , one out all out , oh a few in , a few out , some more in asking for a handout what can i get to feather my nest type of thing , many many permutations . " " We'll keep the red flag flying here " sing together in solidarity. I think he's realised striking you don't get paid and it hurts real bad , a tough lesson to learn but good he's learnt it young , well done young man . Huey and Redoute's Choice 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerula 1,389 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 The RED FLAG goes, "The working class can kiss my arse I've a bludgers job at last" quite apt with Cindy and winnie running the cutter Insider and JJ Flash 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, Nerula said: The RED FLAG goes, "The working class can kiss my arse I've a bludgers job at last" quite apt with Cindy and winnie running the cutter Theres a few old union leaders not short cash flow , workers until their pay goes up . Bad look undermining the union rep by that stable and rubbing his nose in it early doors though . Not a strong bargaining team . Cannot expect a struggling stable to battle to the wall leaving horses out if a big guy rolls over very quickly and publicly . arjay, jack, Redoute's Choice and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 So he's brought a spelling farm in company with a NZ syndication company , but he's going to move to Australia unless stakes are what he wants but he don't want to stand in company with the union rep in the trenches . So his horses move to OZ , assuming thats what all his owners want and fly them back on masse to his farm for spelling ? He might be one person who will have his bluff called early doors . Cobba, Huey and Redoute's Choice 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates 3,453 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 O'sullivan / Scott stable apparently also bringing horses in on Tuesday , so obviously the trainers assn is as fractured as ever . The old saying "united we stand , divided we fall " comes to mind . Redoute's Choice, Huey and Red Rum 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 28 minutes ago, nomates said: O'sullivan / Scott stable apparently also bringing horses in on Tuesday , so obviously the trainers assn is as fractured as ever . The old saying "united we stand , divided we fall " comes to mind . Feel a bit for Pike , is he self made man ? . The other two clearly had a hand up in industry but credit they've made most of it but if a self made man has stood up to be counted and big colleagues have cut him down like that, let's just say it's average . Marsh is no way going to OZ , add it all up jockey partner going well, spelling farm , into training . All mouth and trousers, the classic paper tiger . Redoute's Choice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates 3,453 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Red Rum said: Feel a bit for Pike , is he self made man ? . The other two clearly had a hand up in industry but credit they've made most of it but if a self made man has stood up to be counted and big colleagues have cut him down like that, let's just say it's average . Marsh is no way going to OZ , add it all up jockey partner going well, spelling farm , into training . All mouth and trousers, the classic paper tiger . Marsh could well go . If things get bad enough then as the with Te Akau taking boxes in Melbourne , any of Pike , Marsh or the other younger tyro trainers could look at doing same but maintain their NZ stables as satelites for early education and early prep races then xfer the appropriate horses when necessary . But if there is one thing i've found in nearly 40 years involved in racing is that it is a sport and money is involved so that self interest is usually at the forefront of a lot of decisions Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 Just now, nomates said: Marsh could well go . If things get bad enough then as the with Te Akau taking boxes in Melbourne , any of Pike , Marsh or the other younger tyro trainers could look at doing same but maintain their NZ stables as satelites for early education and early prep races then xfer the appropriate horses when necessary . But if there is one thing i've found in nearly 40 years involved in racing is that it is a sport and money is involved so that self interest is usually at the forefront of a lot of decisions To be fair a lot of sports here feed talent to overseas , the amount of talent in football sloshing round ,I know of a few good young ones even early heading offshore to clubs giving it a go. The reality of a small economy and population , it's great in some ways but we just realistically cannot compete with these huge economies nowdays in sport . Look how the ABs battle to retain talent . Sport has to stand on own two feet at the pro level ,taxpayer should support grassroots . The taxpayer could look at supporting trainers/ studs in training youngsters in the workplace through apprentice schemes , racing can do a lot of good in that respect, in fact they do already .It might even be an idea for trainers to push this aspect of their business to govenment and the public .Push what they can do to help the country not what they want a bit more . How many youngsters employed by Marsh , iam sure a few , mention that not dictate what stakes the taxpayer should provide , maybe they get a better reception . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates 3,453 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Red Rum said: To be fair a lot of sports here feed talent to overseas , the amount of talent in football sloshing round ,I know of a few good young ones even early heading offshore to clubs giving it a go. The reality of a small economy and population , it's great in some ways but we just realistically cannot compete with these huge economies nowdays in sport . Look how the ABs battle to retain talent . Sport has to stand on own two feet at the pro level ,taxpayer should support grassroots . The taxpayer could look at supporting trainers/ studs in training youngsters in the workplace through apprentice schemes , racing can do a lot of good in that respect, in fact they do already .It might even be an idea for trainers to push this aspect of their business to govenment and the public .Push what they can do to help the country not what they want a bit more . How many youngsters employed by Marsh , iam sure a few , mention that not dictate what stakes the taxpayer should provide , maybe they get a better reception . Hard getting local youngsters into racing now , won't go into my opinions as to why , but you only have to see the numbers of overseas apprentices and stable hands now ensconced in Nz racing to see there is a problem sourcing locals . scooby3051 and Huey 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripple alliance 1,005 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 15 hours ago, nomates said: Hard getting local youngsters into racing now , won't go into my opinions as to why , but you only have to see the numbers of overseas apprentices and stable hands now ensconced in Nz racing to see there is a problem sourcing locals . I was watching a horse of mine at the races one day and a young guy told me racing is a twilight industry , that was 15 years ago and he was right , it's an old persons game and you know what old people do , they don't carry on getting old forever , it's like a sinking lid situation . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Bidlake 759 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 We need an apprentice type training school but not just for apprentice jockeys but for potential track riders and ground staff as well. 6 months in a 'school' where they learn the basics then are sent out to a stable or two for 6 months and then they are ready for proper employment. There are so many kids who have this dream of making life in the horse world thinking they are going to go to the Olympics or be taking off the track racehorses and selling them on but in the real world only a tiny amount of these with that dream are going to make it happen and racing could be there answer. Isn't the first year of Uni paid for now days, surly we can get some funding of some sort to set this up? There must be plenty of racecourses that could make this happen pretty quickly, I know a place like Tauherenikau that has the old accommodation block still operating and plenty of boxes for use. Every kid gets assigned a horse for them to take care of, gives another option for quiet retired racehorses as well. Baz (NZ), Tony, Ethereal and 2 others 4 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Aaron Bidlake said: We need an apprentice type training school but not just for apprentice jockeys but for potential track riders and ground staff as well. 6 months in a 'school' where they learn the basics then are sent out to a stable or two for 6 months and then they are ready for proper employment. There are so many kids who have this dream of making life in the horse world thinking they are going to go to the Olympics or be taking off the track racehorses and selling them on but in the real world only a tiny amount of these with that dream are going to make it happen and racing could be there answer. Isn't the first year of Uni paid for now days, surly we can get some funding of some sort to set this up? There must be plenty of racecourses that could make this happen pretty quickly, I know a place like Tauherenikau that has the old accommodation block still operating and plenty of boxes for use. Every kid gets assigned a horse for them to take care of, gives another option for quiet retired racehorses as well. It might be a better investment than the RIU.... Aaron Bidlake, Pam Robson and Baz (NZ) 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 22 minutes ago, Aaron Bidlake said: We need an apprentice type training school but not just for apprentice jockeys but for potential track riders and ground staff as well. 6 months in a 'school' where they learn the basics then are sent out to a stable or two for 6 months and then they are ready for proper employment. There are so many kids who have this dream of making life in the horse world thinking they are going to go to the Olympics or be taking off the track racehorses and selling them on but in the real world only a tiny amount of these with that dream are going to make it happen and racing could be there answer. Isn't the first year of Uni paid for now days, surly we can get some funding of some sort to set this up? There must be plenty of racecourses that could make this happen pretty quickly, I know a place like Tauherenikau that has the old accommodation block still operating and plenty of boxes for use. Every kid gets assigned a horse for them to take care of, gives another option for quiet retired racehorses as well. Northern Racing College very successful in Rossington, England . Their Website has what they do and how , very professional outfit . They get some youngsters in who haven't had all advantages from tough areas and teach them to look after the horses and themselves, then get them into yards . Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 36 minutes ago, Aaron Bidlake said: We need an apprentice type training school but not just for apprentice jockeys but for potential track riders and ground staff as well. 6 months in a 'school' where they learn the basics then are sent out to a stable or two for 6 months and then they are ready for proper employment. There are so many kids who have this dream of making life in the horse world thinking they are going to go to the Olympics or be taking off the track racehorses and selling them on but in the real world only a tiny amount of these with that dream are going to make it happen and racing could be there answer. Isn't the first year of Uni paid for now days, surly we can get some funding of some sort to set this up? There must be plenty of racecourses that could make this happen pretty quickly, I know a place like Tauherenikau that has the old accommodation block still operating and plenty of boxes for use. Every kid gets assigned a horse for them to take care of, gives another option for quiet retired racehorses as well. There's loads on you tube showing how they do it Aaron . Builds kids confidence up in life that's the spin off as well. Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,536 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Aaron Bidlake said: We need an apprentice type training school but not just for apprentice jockeys but for potential track riders and ground staff as well. 6 months in a 'school' where they learn the basics then are sent out to a stable or two for 6 months and then they are ready for proper employment. There are so many kids who have this dream of making life in the horse world thinking they are going to go to the Olympics or be taking off the track racehorses and selling them on but in the real world only a tiny amount of these with that dream are going to make it happen and racing could be there answer. Isn't the first year of Uni paid for now days, surly we can get some funding of some sort to set this up? There must be plenty of racecourses that could make this happen pretty quickly, I know a place like Tauherenikau that has the old accommodation block still operating and plenty of boxes for use. Every kid gets assigned a horse for them to take care of, gives another option for quiet retired racehorses as well. Far better idea than the fractured system we have now, and for many retired horses too. The lads/lasses who come out from Asian jurisdictions as well as the UK, Ireland, etc have mostly all been to some type of training system. The UK /Irish ones, and St African, in particular, are outstanding. Just another example of how far we have drifted off course. Good call, Aaron, keep those thoughts coming. We're Doomed 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 At the moment we can barely find enough money to pay stakes, how could we afford to establish a new training school TurnipOrange 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted April 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, Stables said: At the moment we can barely find enough money to pay stakes, how could we afford to establish a new training school I think Aaron might mean in future at some point if racing recovers not tomorrow or next week , I think the way the govenment recovery is going to be framed by PM going by comments in news today is it will be focused on youth, youth is pretty far from racing at the moment so racing better scribble some notes down quick sharp for future if it survives next few months . Agree with govenment or not it's the one in power so calls the tune , racing calls nothing the position it's in . Aaron Bidlake 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony 159 Report post Posted April 28, 2020 Shane Jones still has got zillions in his Regional Fund still to hand out. Something like this creates skilled people who can go in to employment which is what fund is suppose to be for. We just need somebody to drive it. I spoke to Kim Clapperton about doing something at Foxton racecourse as Shane Jones was wanting to throw as much money at Foxton as he could. They got heaps of projects going. Opening up,the old river and walk ways for all the tourists that are coming. Kim was really keen and would be the sort of person to run something like this but she couldn't get any support from the people in NZTR. They just shut it down. So NZTR backing any thing like this is your problem. Leggy and Aaron Bidlake 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,536 Report post Posted April 28, 2020 Sad. What show is there with that attitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crustyngrizzly 1,682 Report post Posted April 28, 2020 Pretty sure that we have had schools in the past.Didn't Arthur Williams have one on his property. They are only as good as the staff you have teaching and there is the big problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...