We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted April 22, 2020 This is obviously one of many areas in which I have no expertise at all, but it is fairly obvious to almost everyone that the Racing Industry has been incompetently managed for a long time. Under different management the Industry may have been better able to withstand the current turmoil. Are the Board members who made all of the incompetent decisions that have virtually destroyed an iconic NZ sport/industry legally responsible in anyway for their incompetence? Are there any parallels with the Mainzeal directors? Could Racing Industry participants: trainers, jockeys, breeders etc, take a class action again the Board members who have destroyed the Industry? Pegasus 9, Insider, napier and 6 others 4 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
departed 155 Report post Posted April 24, 2020 Very unlikely. You would be hard pushed to prove negligence, where there first has to be a duty of care. The industry's best hope is to make sure Winnie is booted out of parliament in September, along with all the incompetent, anti business Labour party MPs. The rot in NZ racing has been happening for a long time now, it didn't happen overnight. I was involved in the Fair Tax campaign, back in the early 2000s. The root of all the problem, which the Messara report did not delve into, is the monopoly the TAB holds on punting in NZ. Most other jurisdictions allow bookmakers, which promotes competition for the betting dollar, and gives punters a choice. I also don't think the NZ public is all that interested in racing anyway, not the way they are in Australia. You will never get the huge turnover in NZ that you get in Australia. In Victoria alone, racing contributes $3.2 billion pa into the Victorian economy and $9billion pa into the Australian economy. That is why the government allowed it to continue during the lockdown. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneMcAlister 1,420 Report post Posted April 24, 2020 I reckon RITA picked up a basket case, hence the reason RITA was brought it. There is two areas I would like to have seen more from RITA in: outsourcing communication (very poor in last month when needed the most) The outsourcing feasibility was actually done by the applying outsourcing applicants. It was two years ago now that SportsBet put together a presentation in Cambridge about what they would offer NZ racing to be their outsourcing partner. Working on memory here: NZ racnig would continue to receive same return for 15 years at minimum NZ racing would joint venture any income above the minimum. This would come from the growth that SportsBet would generate. MASSIVE upfront sign on payment. This would have been put into prize money. Pam Robson, Dissident and Baz (NZ) 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk 1,317 Report post Posted April 24, 2020 We're Doomed. You are on the right track. Whats required are whistleblowers. i.e those who have witnessed the spending and questionable contracts. Worth viewing on YouTube is the collapse of ENRON and the culture surrounding it. One of the key elements was artificially bulding up the size of ENRON to inflate the pay packet. Also creaming bonuses on fictitious future profits. When ENRON went down so did Arthur Anderson the auditors. I can't even find out who the RITA auditors are. With so many inducements, promotions etc, i doubt the auditors even bother. Just sign off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony 159 Report post Posted April 24, 2020 A whistle blower would get slaughtered. They would get no support from anywhere. Winston would turn his back. He is only involved in Legislation not the day to day running of Racing. Recognised Industry Organisations(RIO's) would start shaking at the knees. A whistle blower would be on their own. Until organisations like NZTR are made to be accountable and have to work with in the rules of racing this isn't going to happen and nothing will change. I mentioned on another thread about Bernard Hickey of the Owners Assoc talking about the 1.7 million owed in Nomination and Acceptance fees. $750,000 of that owed by Trainers to NZTR. Has this been allowed to happen to control the Trainers Association? While Tony Pike and Nigel Tiley are really nice people, when push comes to shove there has not been any shove. Midget, Dissident, slam dunk and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 11 979 Report post Posted May 24, 2020 On 4/24/2020 at 2:45 PM, slam dunk said: We're Doomed. You are on the right track. Whats required are whistleblowers. i.e those who have witnessed the spending and questionable contracts. Worth viewing on YouTube is the collapse of ENRON and the culture surrounding it. One of the key elements was artificially bulding up the size of ENRON to inflate the pay packet. Also creaming bonuses on fictitious future profits. When ENRON went down so did Arthur Anderson the auditors. I can't even find out who the RITA auditors are. With so many inducements, promotions etc, i doubt the auditors even bother. Just sign off. Well slam dunk the old conspiracy theorist has sniffed out a whistle blower in a disgruntled employee on another thread and the Insolvency of the TAB promises to be bigger than ENRON. One suspects he will get them to deny their total $ turnover is $2.7 Bil and the Head Office must be moved from Petone....and they should follow Silver Ferns farm example. A bit rough to claim my posts are lies when he claims no mention o of the Auditors which is clearly highlighted in at least 2 x pages of any annual report on website then claims the Auditors just sign off which is a big lie and highly disrespectful. After trawling the archives he produced my summary of JAllen's meeting in March 2017 which was given after cafers requested one from attendees. Like the other attendee posters ,in one of the most viewed posts of 2017 I reported he was a good talker ,convincing and this was repeated after May 2019 meeting where I added he was an eternal optimist even though the TAB and racing looked in bad shape. Slam dunk ,was recently referred to as an 'own goal' but I'd liken him to a dribbler...a bad one at that ! Enron....haha ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk 1,317 Report post Posted May 24, 2020 10 hours ago, tasman man 11 said: Well slam dunk the old conspiracy theorist has sniffed out a whistle blower in a disgruntled employee on another thread and the Insolvency of the TAB promises to be bigger than ENRON. One suspects he will get them to deny their total $ turnover is $2.7 Bil and the Head Office must be moved from Petone....and they should follow Silver Ferns farm example. A bit rough to claim my posts are lies when he claims no mention o of the Auditors which is clearly highlighted in at least 2 x pages of any annual report on website then claims the Auditors just sign off which is a big lie and highly disrespectful. After trawling the archives he produced my summary of JAllen's meeting in March 2017 which was given after cafers requested one from attendees. Like the other attendee posters ,in one of the most viewed posts of 2017 I reported he was a good talker ,convincing and this was repeated after May 2019 meeting where I added he was an eternal optimist even though the TAB and racing looked in bad shape. Slam dunk ,was recently referred to as an 'own goal' but I'd liken him to a dribbler...a bad one at that ! Enron....haha ! Tasman Man your support of John Allen is pathetic. Shows very little nous. Also any whistle blowers coming out of Petone should be encouraged. If your grasp of business accounting doesn't allow you to see the difference between Racing Board revenue and Silver Farms revenue I suggest you get some refresher courses. Glad you mention auditors because I actually worked for NZ's leading audit firm. And lastly my style of contributing to Racecafe is to present new ideas. If that gives you a laugh down at the waterfront bubble I'm happy for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted May 25, 2020 Shane, I wouldn't give up on the outsourcing option, RITA may have no alternative Huey and shaneMcAlister 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerula 1,389 Report post Posted May 25, 2020 There wont be any repercussions as the poor leaders that brought about the mess were Government appointees of both political favours. Incompetence is par for bureaucrats and politicians. So no censure - and heres another sweet job for you. Tauhei Notts 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjay 447 Report post Posted May 25, 2020 Big dogs do not bite other big dogs. However just whom were the top 3 supposed to report to? Were they and will they be called to account? As a sidebar, kiwi punters have been betting in aussie, by now most have more clues about that form. Will they return to kiwi races with the same gusto? We're Doomed 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Bukowski 408 Report post Posted May 25, 2020 No hahaha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meomy 971 Report post Posted May 26, 2020 On 4/23/2020 at 9:05 AM, We're Doomed said: This is obviously one of many areas in which I have no expertise at all, but it is fairly obvious to almost everyone that the Racing Industry has been incompetently managed for a long time. Under different management the Industry may have been better able to withstand the current turmoil. Are the Board members who made all of the incompetent decisions that have virtually destroyed an iconic NZ sport/industry legally responsible in anyway for their incompetence? Are there any parallels with the Mainzeal directors? Could Racing Industry participants: trainers, jockeys, breeders etc, take a class action again the Board members who have destroyed the Industry? All Board of Directors regardless of who they work for are accountable under various laws. Look up NZ Legislation as that's where the legislation for laws is, as is NZLII Databases. As an aside, this Judicial Review currently before the Courts, in relation to the Lockdowns, in the UK has reference to NZ Case Law. We would reasonably expect those at the helm to be using it as a Template for NZ and ensure accountablity across the board, simply change the names to that of those who signed off documents for the chain of events we have been through. There's no reason why Racing in the International Arena can't work together and work things out together. The wider implications are that this is a global issue not just effecting NZ, we have World Trade and other agreements with countries across Europe and UK etc who are also feeling the impacts within their Racing industries. We should be taking a stand together folks. Statement of Claim of Facts and Grounds https://static.crowdjustice.com/group_claim_document/Statement_of_Facts_and_Grounds_-_Written_Submissions_of_the_Claiman_69dBeCS.PDF Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,824 Report post Posted May 27, 2020 On 5/25/2020 at 7:47 PM, arjay said: Big dogs do not bite other big dogs. However just whom were the top 3 supposed to report to? Were they and will they be called to account? As a sidebar, kiwi punters have been betting in aussie, by now most have more clues about that form. Will they return to kiwi races with the same gusto? Yes very true. After 13 or 14 weeks betting at Randwick and Flemington they are going to expect punters to be happy returning to the equivalent of Beaudesert, or worse, every week. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,536 Report post Posted May 27, 2020 On 4/23/2020 at 9:05 AM, We're Doomed said: This is obviously one of many areas in which I have no expertise at all, but it is fairly obvious to almost everyone that the Racing Industry has been incompetently managed for a long time. Under different management the Industry may have been better able to withstand the current turmoil. Are the Board members who made all of the incompetent decisions that have virtually destroyed an iconic NZ sport/industry legally responsible in anyway for their incompetence? Are there any parallels with the Mainzeal directors? Could Racing Industry participants: trainers, jockeys, breeders etc, take a class action again the Board members who have destroyed the Industry? I have absolutely no idea..but I was aked that question recently too. Would like to hear an opinion from someone who does have that knowledge. arjay 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 599 Report post Posted May 27, 2020 Spokesman for the New Conservative Party thinks the industry is in tatters . https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2005/S00341/racing-industry-in-tatters.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,923 Report post Posted May 27, 2020 Breeder Lachie Ashton has plagiarised Brian de Lore. The New Conservatives claim he has a wealth of knowledge about racing. I have never heard of him until now. Do any Cafe Members know him or know about his racing experience? Breeder 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patiti 274 Report post Posted May 27, 2020 Lachie Ashton NC Agriculture Spokesperson As New Conservative’s agricultural spokesman, Lachie sees himself as a loyal ally to the agriculture sector having been there on the ground as a farm worker, casual musterer, head shepherd, farm manager, contract fencer, leasing a farm and finally, farm ownership which has given him an excellent grounding across a broad cross section of farm types and practices. Lachie, who now works as a Land Management Advisor for Environment Canterbury, believes that the common sense policies of the New Conservatives on Agriculture and the Environment are by far the best solution for New Zealand going forward and that we have only got to where we are now because of past government leadership that simply hasn’t been good enough. Lachie joined the party after losing confidence in successive governments since the seventies which sold off strategically important national assets, either partially or in full and often to foreign ownership. These actions have left New Zealand vulnerable to overseas banks, a much poorer telecommunications and internet system than what we could have had, and a power supply that doesn’t ensure our industries have a competitive global advantage or affordable power for our households. Billions of dollars of taxpayer’s money have been spent in bailing out both Air New Zealand and KiwiRail, buying them back and getting them up and running again. Allowing the sale of farmland to foreigners should also be seen as selling off national assets. Selling businesses and houses to overseas owners has not served New Zealand well either, with the purchasers of Cadburys taking the manufacturing to Australia a good example. On their watch, New Zealand has gone from leading the world in the sixties with income equality and virtually no unemployment to a country with huge social problems, poverty, high national and household debt, run down infrastructure, unaffordable housing and an immigration policy that is not working for New Zealand. Lachie believes New Zealand needs New Conservative in government for a better future for all New Zealanders. © New Conservative Authorised by Kevin Stitt, 35 Lenore Rd, Mangere Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 599 Report post Posted May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, gubellini said: Breeder Lachie Ashton has plagiarised Brian de Lore. The New Conservatives claim he has a wealth of knowledge about racing. I have never heard of him until now. Do any Cafe Members know him or know about his racing experience? Thanks gubellini. I'm not a follower of the New Conservatives. It was just more the Scoop article, I picked up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted May 27, 2020 Has the party even got enough members to be eligible to go on the ballot for the next election Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 599 Report post Posted May 28, 2020 I think they have been a registered party for quite a while ( a couple of years) , Stables Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 3,923 Report post Posted May 28, 2020 Patiti thanks for posting the bio of Lachie Ashton. No mention of racing involvement though. The Conservatives polled 0.24% in the 2017 election. Dragged down by their leaders antics- Colin Craig. Patiti 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted May 28, 2020 Oh yes, that bunch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 599 Report post Posted May 28, 2020 No gubellini and Stables. The party Ashton is with is a new, different party. Nothing to do with Colin Craig's lot. Baz (NZ) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,759 Report post Posted May 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Patiti said: Lachie Ashton NC Agriculture Spokesperson As New Conservative’s agricultural spokesman, Lachie sees himself as a loyal ally to the agriculture sector having been there on the ground as a farm worker, casual musterer, head shepherd, farm manager, contract fencer, leasing a farm and finally, farm ownership which has given him an excellent grounding across a broad cross section of farm types and practices. Lachie, who now works as a Land Management Advisor for Environment Canterbury, believes that the common sense policies of the New Conservatives on Agriculture and the Environment are by far the best solution for New Zealand going forward and that we have only got to where we are now because of past government leadership that simply hasn’t been good enough. Lachie joined the party after losing confidence in successive governments since the seventies which sold off strategically important national assets, either partially or in full and often to foreign ownership. These actions have left New Zealand vulnerable to overseas banks, a much poorer telecommunications and internet system than what we could have had, and a power supply that doesn’t ensure our industries have a competitive global advantage or affordable power for our households. Billions of dollars of taxpayer’s money have been spent in bailing out both Air New Zealand and KiwiRail, buying them back and getting them up and running again. Allowing the sale of farmland to foreigners should also be seen as selling off national assets. Selling businesses and houses to overseas owners has not served New Zealand well either, with the purchasers of Cadburys taking the manufacturing to Australia a good example. On their watch, New Zealand has gone from leading the world in the sixties with income equality and virtually no unemployment to a country with huge social problems, poverty, high national and household debt, run down infrastructure, unaffordable housing and an immigration policy that is not working for New Zealand. Lachie believes New Zealand needs New Conservative in government for a better future for all New Zealanders. © New Conservative Authorised by Kevin Stitt, 35 Lenore Rd, Mangere Selling businesses to overseas owners...?. Pretty sure Kraft US purchased Cadbury from the family in the UK, nothing to do with NZ. The factory closure was just part of business rationalisation affecting all countries....quite a few in UK went too, with manufacturing going to Poland. That’s what happens when you are a listed company with shareholders to answer to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stables 577 Report post Posted May 28, 2020 A collection of born again Christians who want to save us poor sinners Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...