ATC pushes for penalty-free racing on restart

[eljay 1,720]

As an aside, I remember a few years back in the days of C ratings (or maybe G) Tony Milina was the bad boy.   He had a 3 (I think) year old colt that he became very adept in placing and finished up the season with 10 + wins all or most penalty free.    The horse started the next season as a C1 or C2 which upset many trainers of run of the mill horses.     Can anyone remember what that horse was?    Would probably have been in the 1980's or 1990's.    

[eljay 1,720]

Perhaps it was Elmer Gantry which I see won 6 as a 3 year old and 7 at 4 back in 1987/8.    That's a few years to churn back the memory bank.

[Toblerone 242]

Bury My Heart

[eljay 1,720]

Tony had some nice harness horses over his time back in the days when the vultures didn't snap them up for overseas careers after just one workout win.     Michelle bred most of them too.

[Charlie Bukowski 411]

Could I just throw something out there.

It's Winter , the landscape has changed , why can't Harness consider racing days Fridays and Thursdays to kick off , get that NZ punting $ that is having a free run at Aussie T/bredsat the mo

[Mikie 326]

14 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

I think I got the gist of what you saying ....and it would be a worst case scenario that you visualise.

I visualise it differently.

I heard comments elsewhere of the same results being repeated ,but I think that wouldn't happen .

Hence I suggest wait and see.

Most of the Group 1 horses and those aimed at Jewels etc are probably not the ones to be racing.

But I often miss the point......you possibly heard I had 3 years in the 5th form....WRONG ,it was 5 years in the 3rd form.

Hi Tasman Man

I am pleased that you didn't take umbrage at my comments as no malice was intended

I appreciate that you can have a laugh at yourself

I wasn't really thinking of the Group type horse, rather I was thinking of 2 or 3 very handy types who could then drop back to where they started off from. 

The howls of protest would start

Penalty free races are great .... for those that win them!

I have said it on here before, it doesn't matter if you have a Class system, a Ratings System, a system based on Winning stakes or a system based on recent Stakes winnings

Two things will never change no matter what the system is

1. If there are 2000 races there will be 2000 winners. Altering the system merely changes what horse (or trainer) wins those races

2. Whatever system you have there will be anomalies

I remember a Points system promoted by Richard Brosnan years ago. Sounded good in theory. In practical terms there were huge holes in it. He had horses that could drop back to race againgst mid-range type horses by continuous 5ths in New Zealand Cups, Group races and the like. An anomaly that he hadn't covered

My preference was to have kept the Class system, altered the Age concessions, altered the drop-back provisions and spent some time educating Clubs about the never-ending opportunities they had to create races for like with like

Too late now

Mikie

 

 

[eljay 1,720]

Did you guys see the bulletin with Grunt Robertson today?       When I saw his boss wasn't there I thought - here comes trouble.     First utterance was UK OZ etc. extended level 4 by up to 3 weeks so dont take it as a given we will go to level 3 Monday.     A bit of "softening up"? 

[Mikie 326]

4 minutes ago, eljay said:

Did you guys see the bulletin with Grunt Robertson today?       When I saw his boss wasn't there I thought - here comes trouble.     First utterance was UK OZ etc. extended level 4 by up to 3 weeks so dont take it as a given we will go to level 3 Monday.     A bit of "softening up"? 

No, didn't see it Eljay

Buga!

[tasman man 11 979]

9 hours ago, Toblerone said:

Bury My Heart

I think you nailed it young man.

From memory all 2 yr old races back then must have been penalty free.

I guess that was seen as an incentive to get horses up and running....a few were able to gain from that non-win status when they turned 3.

I note now ,few horses seem to get to the races at 2 , and even in the south there have been filly races cancelled cos too few nominations.

I guess whatever system used you can't please everyone ! Impossible !

But not having races scheduled discourages owners ...and the Virus has certainly put an end to many of the Group races for the youngsters in 2020.

[eljay 1,720]

You probably saw the breeding numbers for last season Tas Man - after the vultures get their claws into them will there be sufficient left to run Juvenile races anyway?     

[Blue 1,099]

On 4/17/2020 at 8:01 AM, Toblerone said:

Bury My Heart

Only ever won four in a season. 

[eljay 1,720]

Yes Blue - but a very impressive record.    Tony was a master at placing his horses

 

Season	Gait	Starts	1st	2nd	3rd	$Stakes	$Win Stake	$Foreign	$F Win
2008 5yo	P	9	2	1	1	17,931	14,490
2007 4yo	P	18	3	4	1	25,101	16,765
2006 3yo	P	19	4	3	3	35,402	24,520
2005 2yo	P	8	4	1	0	27,324	18,335
Life Time
LT	P	54	13	9	5	105,758	74,110

[Stables 577]

Who or what are the vultures you refer to Eljay

[eljay 1,720]

Those that deplete our ranks

[Stables 577]

Are you referring to people who sell their horses overseas

[eljay 1,720]

No - those that buy them by shady means.     And before you ask me for an example like I know you will - an owner rang his trainer to ask how his horse was coming along only to be told - oh it's already in Australia.    I imagine this owner wasn't consulted on price and yes he didn't own it on his own.   And I think we have all heard of instances of intermediaries, agents, trainers who have used overseas sales to "make a little on the side".      Anyway, let's see the "export list" when air freight resumes.

[eljay 1,720]

On 4/17/2020 at 2:16 PM, eljay said:

Did you guys see the bulletin with Grunt Robertson today?       When I saw his boss wasn't there I thought - here comes trouble.     First utterance was UK OZ etc. extended level 4 by up to 3 weeks so dont take it as a given we will go to level 3 Monday.     A bit of "softening up"? 

Today no one fronted up!

 

Tomorrow??????

[Stables 577]

I now understand and am aware of many examples of what you mentioned

[2Piper 408]

On 4/15/2020 at 6:24 PM, john legend said:

true Mikie, remember too horses trained around the north Island will want to race and Cambridge while a bit of a haul is better than Auckland with the extra distance, no horses allowed on course overnight, etc. but once again the atc think of no one but themselves..why not sell whats left of their land and utilise any "leftover funds' to build a major facility at Cambridge . would be magnificent as long as no Auckland board members were permitted on the new Board.

Not sure why we are thinking about closing Cambridge, dogs race there too. Dual code venue.  Can't see the thoroughbreds using the same tracks week in week out , especially during winter/spring. Too much damage to the track.  Is the revised thoroughbred calender out ? Think the idea of racing Alexandra Park / Northern meeting on Saturdays not a bad idea if it helps turnover.

[eljay 1,720]

For Auckland & Cambridge Saturday (or even Sunday) DAY meetings would make sense to me for the recommencement.    As has been said (1) probably be run crowdless and (2) reduction of stakes would be complimented by not having the huge expense of floodlighting.