Spain , Italy

[tripple alliance 1,023]

Quote

Spain eases some restrictions as rate of coronavirus infections hits new low  , Country records 619 deaths in past 24 hours as some sectors prepare return to work .

 Italy is also returning similar sectors to work TOMORROW 14/4/2020 . No doubt Trump would love to follow suit , he won't be far behind .

So people still dying in Spain and Italy but construction and the service industry's are returning to work TOMORROW , if they can do this after loosing 1000s why can't we start opening up as well . . This is shaping up like a massive over reaction , 4 Deaths and we are borrowing $50 BILLION , that's $12.5 Billion per old person so far .

An immediate Return to Racing would be a great place to start along with opening many small businesses in a controlled environment , the problem is political will .

I hope you are all enjoying the Australian racing coverage , its proof can be done .

[TurnyTom 1,534]

Really

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

I personally think we are going the right way, as a country we can achieve elimination of the virus.  We only have 10 more days to go.

My business is fcuked, but if we achieve elimination then there is chance of a rebirth.  Going in and out of lockdowns we kill it permanently.

The Aussies are looking at pulling this off with their racing (I am surprised).  But I don't think we would have, especially with a cluster in Matamata.

 

[Gruff 2,790]

The interesting thing for us is we are heading into our Flu season where other countries are almost through  theres... imagine the over reaction and uncertainty with people coming down with the Bot. We may be coming out of lockdown but how can we open our Borders again ?

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

I don't think our borders will be open for at least the remainder of the year.  However I am guessing if Australia becomes clear, then we will be able to got back and forth from there without 14 days isolation.

[TurnyTom 1,534]

Borders 6 months away minimum, probably 12

[tripple alliance 1,023]

20 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said:

 I personally think we are going the right way, as a country we can achieve elimination of the virus.  We only have 10 more days to go.

My business is fcuked, but if we achieve elimination then there is chance of a rebirth.  Going in and out of lockdowns we kill it permanently.

The Aussies are looking at pulling this off with their racing (I am surprised).  But I don't think we would have, especially with a cluster in Matamata.

 

Elimination , probably won't  happen until we have a vaccine , this is about management , isolate those at risk , vulnerable ,  and let the rest make alterations to how they live and get on with it . Ausse is doing better than us with a wide range of different restriction but it hasn't closed everything down .

"" China reported the highest number of new daily coronavirus cases in nearly six weeks, driven by a rise in infected travellers arriving from overseas and underscoring challenges Beijing faces in preventing a second wave of COVID-19. A total of 108 new coronavirus cases were reported on Sunday, up from 99 a day earlier  .""

The only way to halt complete economic collapse is by managing this serious problem . 

M Bovis in our cattle are a guide to how difficult it is to control a virus , $100 million and almost 3 years for little result .

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

M Bovis, is something the world lives with in farming.  It is just NZ thought they could eliminate it.

As an Island (distant one too) I think we have a real chance of elimination and this can be achieved before end of May.

 

[puha 2,177]

Think the 4 weeks shutdown was the right call .Hopefully sensible re opening of low risk businesses follows

[Idolmite 2,527]

1 hour ago, tripple alliance said:

Elimination , probably won't  happen until we have a vaccine , this is about management , isolate those at risk , vulnerable ,  and let the rest make alterations to how they live and get on with it . Ausse is doing better than us with a wide range of different restriction but it hasn't closed everything down .

"" China reported the highest number of new daily coronavirus cases in nearly six weeks, driven by a rise in infected travellers arriving from overseas and underscoring challenges Beijing faces in preventing a second wave of COVID-19. A total of 108 new coronavirus cases were reported on Sunday, up from 99 a day earlier  .""

The only way to halt complete economic collapse is by managing this serious problem . 

M Bovis in our cattle are a guide to how difficult it is to control a virus , $100 million and almost 3 years for little result .

Can you please list me a few areas where Aussie is doing better than us? 

It will be really interesting to see how Spain and Italy go. I'm hoping for the best, but not expecting that. With the measures we've taken, now blindly following countries who have been loosing 600-800 people per day makes no sense whatsoever, to my way of thinking. 

[Gruff 2,790]

11 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

Elimination , probably won't  happen until we have a vaccine , this is about management , isolate those at risk , vulnerable ,  and let the rest make alterations to how they live and get on with it . Ausse is doing better than us with a wide range of different restriction but it hasn't closed everything down .

"" China reported the highest number of new daily coronavirus cases in nearly six weeks, driven by a rise in infected travellers arriving from overseas and underscoring challenges Beijing faces in preventing a second wave of COVID-19. A total of 108 new coronavirus cases were reported on Sunday, up from 99 a day earlier  .""

The only way to halt complete economic collapse is by managing this serious problem . 

M Bovis in our cattle are a guide to how difficult it is to control a virus , $100 million and almost 3 years for little result .

Our lives are all about Viruses and Bacteria, the amount of people who use anti bacterial products is beyond belief 

 

11 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

Elimination , probably won't  happen until we have a vaccine , this is about management , isolate those at risk , vulnerable ,  and let the rest make alterations to how they live and get on with it . Ausse is doing better than us with a wide range of different restriction but it hasn't closed everything down .

"" China reported the highest number of new daily coronavirus cases in nearly six weeks, driven by a rise in infected travellers arriving from overseas and underscoring challenges Beijing faces in preventing a second wave of COVID-19. A total of 108 new coronavirus cases were reported on Sunday, up from 99 a day earlier  .""

The only way to halt complete economic collapse is by managing this serious problem . 

M Bovis in our cattle are a guide to how difficult it is to control a virus , $100 million and almost 3 years for little result .

They have spent COUNTLESS hours trying to find coronaviruse vaccines, and the best of them all produce antibodies ( which Vaccine manufacturers claim as a success)but ALL immunopathology, which is autoimmune disease, like Goodpasture disease which creates hyperimmunity and bleeding lungs and those affecting most other organs.This casts suspicion over other vaccines with people claiming Autism and a bevy of other autoimmune  Diseases one would summise? What they do know is Covid19 was definately made in a lab, and most probably to find a cure for Sars but conversley as a Bioweapon.... you keep holding out for a vaccine, its what got us into this mire in the first place ...Chinese have been eating everything that moves for centuries, how come this ‘transmission’ didnt happen in some rural village in the middle of nowhere instead of 280m from two laboratories experimenting with Coronaviruses 

[tripple alliance 1,023]

9 hours ago, Idolmite said:

Can you please list me a few areas where Aussie is doing better than us? 

It will be really interesting to see how Spain and Italy go. I'm hoping for the best, but not expecting that. With the measures we've taken, now blindly following countries who have been loosing 600-800 people per day makes no sense whatsoever, to my way of thinking. 

Ausse has continued to operate much more freely and still achieve a very low infection rate , their biggest set back was the ship that was allowed to dock in Sydney , 2800 off loaded many infected 

Let's be clear I support the initial lockdown . Some where cindy has changed from flattening the curve to save hospitals ability to work to elimination . Here's why elimination won't work , management will .

"" Iceland may be one of best live coronavirus laboratories we have, according to Kari Stefansson, an Icelandic neurologist and chief executive officer of Reykjavik-based biopharmaceutical company deCODE genetics,  Iceland will have achieved something no other country has: tested 10 per cent of its population for coronavirus, a figure far higher than anywhere else in the world. 

Among the Nordic nation's findings: about half of its population at any given time who have coronavirus but don't know it, will be asymptomatic - a large percentage many experts studying the virus have suspected, but have had little firm data to corroborate.  ""

It will be the same here , plenty wondering around showing no sign of infection , management is the only answer if we don't want to bankrupt our selves .  If we open up and it then returns what then ? , China is starting to see a return . 

In Italy and Spain over 50% of deaths have been in old peoples homes .

Control the old peoples homes,  retire anyone over 65 (pay them well) look after those with health issues and get on with it in a controlled way , the retirement of over 65s will be good for those seeking work .

[arjay 451]

Well Sweden whom have not closed down so much has now an increasing number of cases and deaths for the last week. Sweden appears out of sync with the rest of europe in closing down. To those whom think our lockdown is severe, just wait and see how Sweden manages, and they have in the past week added a temporary 600 bed hospital. This was not considered needed some 3 weeks ago.

[Gruff 2,790]

 Viruses are given credit for originally building up Human Immune Systems and along with Bacteria keep us alive, yet we have some weird obsession to wipe them out. Makes absolutely no sense. All living Organisms require balance to survive, if that balance is compromised Disease can manifest, its all just a matter of reducing potential proliferation,particularly around known antigens. The Classic case of Roundup, which is effect an antibiotic and destroys our gut microbiome  (30% of food in the  US tested for Glycosphate)and the link between healthy gut bacteria and General health has been documented. How as Human beings can we go forward without exposing ourselves to Antigens? We obviously dont understand how complex all these interactions in nature really are, we can only rely on the one thing designed the same as natural Viruses and Bacteria keeping you alive ...your immune system, which is being compromised more and more by Vaccines .Big Pharma are always experimenting with Viruses. Follow the Money trail, and look at the millions proven of Dying from vaccination, and their common ‘unprovable claim’ that these same vaccines saved millions more. There will always be another Virus just around the corner to compete with a healthy immune system, unfortunately those not strong enough wont survive, do we keep locking down everytime one comes along? Utterly Crazy. The Severe consequences of this lockdown far outweigh any outcome we may of had because of the Flu .

[Idolmite 2,527]

1 hour ago, tripple alliance said:

Ausse has continued to operate much more freely and still achieve a very low infection rate , their biggest set back was the ship that was allowed to dock in Sydney , 2800 off loaded many infected 

Let's be clear I support the initial lockdown . Some where cindy has changed from flattening the curve to save hospitals ability to work to elimination . Here's why elimination won't work , management will .

"" Iceland may be one of best live coronavirus laboratories we have, according to Kari Stefansson, an Icelandic neurologist and chief executive officer of Reykjavik-based biopharmaceutical company deCODE genetics,  Iceland will have achieved something no other country has: tested 10 per cent of its population for coronavirus, a figure far higher than anywhere else in the world. 

Among the Nordic nation's findings: about half of its population at any given time who have coronavirus but don't know it, will be asymptomatic - a large percentage many experts studying the virus have suspected, but have had little firm data to corroborate.  ""

It will be the same here , plenty wondering around showing no sign of infection , management is the only answer if we don't want to bankrupt our selves .  If we open up and it then returns what then ? , China is starting to see a return . 

In Italy and Spain over 50% of deaths have been in old peoples homes .

Control the old peoples homes,  retire anyone over 65 (pay them well) look after those with health issues and get on with it in a controlled way , the retirement of over 65s will be good for those seeking work .

I agree 100% with your last point, in fact I'd go as far as dropping the retirement age, maybe even back to 60, or at least somewhere in between 65 and 60 for that very reason. Pay them well to get out of the way of the young ones looking for work. I'm one of those caught. I turn 65 in June, but have an extremely compromised immune system, I get respiratory tract infections every winter, and have high blood pressure. This all puts me in the high risk (vulnerable) category that cannot work at Level 2, Level 3 or Level 4. So basically, I will never work again, primarily due to winter approaching when I've gotten very sick in recent years. My GP has said if I catch Covid-19 I will not survive it. So yes, park me up somewhere nice and warm, likewise with anybody else in the same boat, and start getting the younger and healthier back to work in a welll-managed manner. Hopefully they're working one something like this during the lockdown. 

[Gruff 2,790]

7 minutes ago, arjay said:

Well Sweden whom have not closed down so much has now an increasing number of cases and deaths for the last week. Sweden appears out of sync with the rest of europe in closing down. To those whom think our lockdown is severe, just wait and see how Sweden manages, and they have in the past week added a temporary 600 bed hospital. This was not considered needed some 3 weeks ago.

Arjay ,  as a matter of interest before this ‘Pandemic’ did you ever look at Global  annual mortality ? These numbers must really create panic in people one would suggest. People die in bulk from numerous other conditions as a result of lifestyle and genetic makeup,these impact anything an antigen may do to compromise your immune system ,so why are we not preparing ourselves for these types of situations which are inevitable?  Do your best to avoid situations that you know compromise that defence and move on . We are not immortal

[Gruff 2,790]

1 minute ago, Idolmite said:

I agree 100% with your last point, in fact I'd go as far as dropping the retirement age, maybe even back to 60, or at least somewhere in between 65 and 60 for that very reason. Pay them well to get out of the way of the young ones looking for work. I'm one of those caught. I turn 65 in June, but have an extremely compromised immune system, I get respiratory tract infections every winter, and have high blood pressure. This all puts me in the high risk (vulnerable) category that cannot work at Level 2, Level 3 or Level 4. So basically, I will never work again, primarily due to winter approaching when I've gotten very sick in recent years. My GP has said if I catch Covid-19 I will not survive it. So yes, park me up somewhere nice and warm, likewise with anybody else in the same boat, and start getting the younger and healthier back to work in a welll-managed manner. Hopefully they're working one something like this during the lockdown. 

Sorry to hear Mitey, do you get the Flu jab? From the literature ive been reading this puts people at further risk if your Covid condition goes next level based on immunopathology

[Idolmite 2,527]

32 minutes ago, Gruff said:

Sorry to hear Mitey, do you get the Flu jab? From the literature ive been reading this puts people at further risk if your Covid condition goes next level based on immunopathology

Yes, my GP called me in on the day their stocks of the Flu Jab arrived. Waiting on the the Pneumonia Jab to arrive, but that could still be weeks yet. 

Hope you're wrong about the harm that could do,  but it's really a bit of a case of what will be willl be. I survived a 1982 car crash that I really should not of survived, so I've had plenty of bonus years already. It's so difficult in this age of fake news and misinformation to know what to believe, and when, so I really just go with what my GP and team of specialists suggest. I certainly know my best years are behind me, well behind haha. 

[Gruff 2,790]

Yeah Rock and a hard place by the sound. All the best 

[arjay 451]

2 hours ago, Gruff said:

Arjay ,  as a matter of interest before this ‘Pandemic’ did you ever look at Global  annual mortality ? These numbers must really create panic in people one would suggest. People die in bulk from numerous other conditions as a result of lifestyle and genetic makeup,these impact anything an antigen may do to compromise your immune system ,so why are we not preparing ourselves for these types of situations which are inevitable?  Do your best to avoid situations that you know compromise that defence and move on . We are not immortal

Well aware Gruff, people die everyday, however not at the current rates .

[tripple alliance 1,023]

"" Spain, Italy and Austria have taken the first steps to getting back to normality amid the coronavirus crisis .. Countries across Europe are re-opening for business again in small steps as figures of the affected drop And several other nations have announced they are preparing to ease their lockdown restrictions in the coming days..

.  Millions of Spanish workers returned to their jobs on Monday after Madrid lifted the curbs on non-essential industries. Builders, cleaners, construction, factory and shipyard employees were allowed back to work, as police handed out millions of masks on the country's metro, train and bus networks. 

What's required is a plan and leadership . We need to reopen , get things moving , it must be done .

[tripple alliance 1,023]

18 hours ago, Idolmite said:

Can you please list me a few areas where Aussie is doing better than us? 

It will be really interesting to see how Spain and Italy go. I'm hoping for the best, but not expecting that. With the measures we've taken, now blindly following countries who have been loosing 600-800 people per day makes no sense whatsoever, to my way of thinking. 

You did ask . 

Country	Cases	Cases/mil	Deaths	Deaths/mil	Tests	Tests/mil
NZ	1366	283	9	2	63k	13.3k
Aust	63,59	249	61	2	362k	14.2k
UK	89k	1,305	11,329	167	367k	5.4k
Canada	26k	680	780	21	437k	11.5k
Ireland	11k	2,156	365	74	72k	14.6k
US	587k	1,773	23,640	71	2.9m	8.9k

Updated from three days ago

Australia is looking best with the lowest numbers of cases per capita equal lowest death rate and the most tests. NZ 2nd best.

Now , a side issue , you are a person with extra medical needs , same here , today I  had a script for medicine/pills , 3 months worth I was given one months worth , cindy is lying , we do have a shortage of medicines .

 

[barryb 2,064]

Slight issue with what you posted TA, NZ's figures include probables, Australia's don't & neither do any of the other countries listed to the best of my knowledge.

With what a 70-80% test accuracy at best, comparing cases is rather pointless. Deaths again are very subjective and down to interpretation of the cause of death. Tests done is the only thing you can say with any real certainty as being a true reflection of a situation.

[puha 2,177]

6 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

"" Spain, Italy and Austria have taken the first steps to getting back to normality amid the coronavirus crisis .. Countries across Europe are re-opening for business again in small steps as figures of the affected drop And several other nations have announced they are preparing to ease their lockdown restrictions in the coming days..

.  Millions of Spanish workers returned to their jobs on Monday after Madrid lifted the curbs on non-essential industries. Builders, cleaners, construction, factory and shipyard employees were allowed back to work, as police handed out millions of masks on the country's metro, train and bus networks. 

What's required is a plan and leadership . We need to reopen , get things moving , it must be done .

Expect ours to go the opposite way and keep us cooped for even longer . Surely with the way the numbers are tracking a drop from level 4 should be on the cards.

[Idolmite 2,527]

3 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

You did ask . 

Country	Cases	Cases/mil	Deaths	Deaths/mil	Tests	Tests/mil
NZ	1366	283	9	2	63k	13.3k
Aust	63,59	249	61	2	362k	14.2k
UK	89k	1,305	11,329	167	367k	5.4k
Canada	26k	680	780	21	437k	11.5k
Ireland	11k	2,156	365	74	72k	14.6k
US	587k	1,773	23,640	71	2.9m	8.9k

Updated from three days ago

Australia is looking best with the lowest numbers of cases per capita equal lowest death rate and the most tests. NZ 2nd best.

Now , a side issue , you are a person with extra medical needs , same here , today I  had a script for medicine/pills , 3 months worth I was given one months worth , cindy is lying , we do have a shortage of medicines .

 

Have had the same issues with medications, having to go back out (extra trip, extra danger)  to pick up more due rationing.