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berzerk

Is TAB/RITA bankrupt?

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Questions:

So if the TAB's new betting platform cost (reputedly) $50mill + $20mill per year in maintenance, is the TAB/RITA now effectively bankrupt or insolvent? 

Of what use would a government bail-out be if it is majority to service the overseas maintenance contract?

Will anyone ever be held to account?

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55 minutes ago, berzerk said:

Questions:

So if the TAB's new betting platform cost (reputedly) $50mill + $20mill per year in maintenance, is the TAB/RITA now effectively bankrupt or insolvent? 

Of what use would a government bail-out be if it is majority to service the overseas maintenance contract?

Will anyone ever be held to account?

This subject has been discussed a lot especially in regard to high and ever increasing operational expenses.

See the thread...."Is this happening in Petone".

The business has been profitable ,as a basic monopoly should be but they were under pressure from the Codes to maintain distributions in order for stakes to hold up as the last two years they were paying out more than what they made.

The Board which is often made up of the wrong people it seems.....some Government appointments.....have been unable to make changes and progress the business in the face of increasing opposition.

Personally I think us Racing people have contributed to the lack of progress...Racing folk can't collaborate and decide on a winning strategy , regionalisation and bias has plagued the industry for at least 40 years. Punters proudly have taken their business elsewhere , racing bosses have let their infrastructure collapse and put on small betting field racing for peanuts ,the better horses mostly sold overseas etc etc.

And of course the claim that salaries too high.... recently Ive done a comparison and apart from boss at RITA this probably not the case.

And like a lot of NZ businesses no-one has saved for a rainy day so racing now in trouble with a heap of other businesses ,looking for a handout !

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1 hour ago, TurnyTom said:

Bankrupt Yes

Govt bailout No

You're wrong on the second line.

The Government wiill  appoint an administrator for the TAB.  Say a High Court judge who really knows about racing and when that happens some funds to re seed racing.

We have a few retired or semi retired judges that would qualify. There is a certain Dame who could kick the thing into a semblance of life.

TT times are tough for the little guys in the game. Feeding despondency is gratuitous stuff

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Why can't RITA make the changes required under the guidance of WP.

Someone needs to do a quick reassessment  of the impact of devolving functions to the codes and establishing the new entity TAB NZ.

It may be more cost efficient to leave a number of functions by a central authority.

Aidan Rodley interviewed Dean Mckenzie who admitted they were losing money at the moment.

This will turn around when racing and sport resume.

Meantime work to be done on systems and processes.

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TT I have my ear pretty close to the ground, but even what I said doesn't happen (and I would be surprised) there is a reality.. But practicalities --

There are a lot of lower income waged and proprietors in Racing Say 8000.. Put them on the dole the cost would be north of 5 million a week. 10 weeks 60m. There is a stake that would reboot the TAB. Better to be sucking out PAYE, ACC etc than paying dole

What is really pressing is the right administrator to sort the business out. Hence the judge who would be impartial, have had extensive skin in the game and a shit kicker to boot. No more political hacks and chancers, but how to keep them out long term? 

I think this has got beyond RITA and WP they need to stand back. Can the hearings, park the bureucrats (sp) until an admistrator gets this on an even keel

 

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4 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

This subject has been discussed a lot especially in regard to high and ever increasing operational expenses.

See the thread...."Is this happening in Petone".

snip.......

And of course the claim that salaries too high.... recently Ive done a comparison and apart from boss at RITA this probably not the case.

Tasman although your more methodical approach is good you haven't put up anything to substantiate your claim salaries are not too high. If anything what you have gathered shows the opposite.

Therefore if comparisons are to be made perhaps you could tell us the size of the TAB as your starting point, Size as being the normal measurements for determining salaries.

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36 minutes ago, slam dunk said:

Tasman although your more methodical approach is good you haven't put up anything to substantiate your claim salaries are not too high. If anything what you have gathered shows the opposite.

Therefore if comparisons are to be made perhaps you could tell us the size of the TAB as your starting point, Size as being the normal measurements for determining salaries.

Put their salaries against their productivity and the oxygen thiefs are well and truely over paid .

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6 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

And of course the claim that salaries too high.... recently Ive done a comparison and apart from boss at RITA this probably not the case.

Can you tell us Gary what new CEO is on?

 

 

Greg

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2 hours ago, slam dunk said:

Tasman although your more methodical approach is good you haven't put up anything to substantiate your claim salaries are not too high. If anything what you have gathered shows the opposite.

Therefore if comparisons are to be made perhaps you could tell us the size of the TAB as your starting point, Size as being the normal measurements for determining salaries.

No , never my intention to get combative on the subject.

I more intended to put up an opinion based on a few facts...benchmarking the business against a few others I have an interest in through my sporting associations . If I was to chose two I would go for Lotto and NZ Rugby.

Taking a rough glance at the Annual Reports and the information given therein ,I'd say TAB pays not excessive.

A lot of people give an opinion on here about the TAB ,NZTR etc and often confuse the two and who runs what and who works for who so I try and gather the facts and not join them in "fucken confused department".

Id say TAB would have many stressful jobs involving shifts ,travel as the circus moves around.I also base my opinion on the old gut feel ,anecdotal evidence and mother in law research.I certainly admire some of their workers who probably not overly paid.

Like the cameraman who stands and works all day in the cold and sleet of winter.And the tote lady who a few weeks ago at 10pm at AlexPark tote that she was up at 5am next day to fly to Wellington to sell tickets at the Wellington Cup.

I havent earned a salary since 1980 but judging by the cost of living,house prices and inflation I just think $100k before tax not fantastic.

Say 5 years experience after a uni degree or certification  in Systems ,IT , Accounting ,Marketing, Media/Communications , Middle Management.......I doubt I could work and survive in expensive city and earn that....some families pay $2000 a month in child care !

The TAB should be a fair and competitive employer and they obviously need to meet the market.

I agree the TAB probably has some jobs that can go ,and I thought J.Allen got too much but a glance at TABCORP has me rethinking.

You are possibly the poster who goes on about the total betting sales not being the figure which decides the SIZE of the company.....I don't give a rats arse about that.

I still say it would be an easier job to work at LOTTO or NZ Rugby.

I'm only one opinion , I can't influence anyone on it....its out of my control !

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25 minutes ago, JJ Flash said:

Can you tell us Gary what new CEO is on?

 

 

Greg

No , I just gather my facts on what is on the website in published Annual Report.

If he is a game changer ,it will be money well spent , what ever it is !

Personally I think NZ is  too small a country/economy to be able to justify obscene salaries.

Seriously how much do people need.......you can't possibly spend it all or enjoy the dozens of nice toys you can buy.

Last nights news showing all those people making up the Food parcels for delivery by Courier...5000.....should be a wake up call.

I admire the wealthy who generously give away serious money to outfits who really need it.

And folk like BLindsay started with nothing....I cheer overtime he wins a race !

And yes ,I realise there are bludgers around........

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10 minutes ago, Stables said:

You seem to be overlooking one thing Tasman, what cuts has the TAB made to their staffing levels since the lockdown?

I saw where some  contractors were laid off immediately and picked up bits and pieces elsewhere about other cuts.

I'd assume they are working on further restructuring now...watch this space....its only been 2 x weeks !

Meanwhile the TAB is still in business...7 days a week...albeit much lower levels !

Offering us product from Moscow and Ukraine Table Tennis to Sweden trots .....and BGP have made some decent bets already for Saturday.

Cuts to TAB staff waaayyyyyyy out my control !

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39 minutes ago, Stables said:

You seem to be overlooking one thing Tasman, what cuts has the TAB made to their staffing levels since the lockdown?

Why dont you go direct to  RITA, send them an email with all your concerns and questions. I have found them to be very accommodating provided the requests/questions are reasonable

You do need to be aware of course that  your questions do not compromise employees human rights and employments contracts.

Let us know how you get on?

 

Greg

 

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1 hour ago, tasman man 11 said:

snip...

You are possibly the poster who goes on about the total betting sales not being the figure which decides the SIZE of the company.....I don't give a rats arse about that.

Well do some more research. Size of a company is very much related to amount of salaries. Some people just can't wrap their heads around whats been happening with TAB. Ever since the days of George Hickton its been fashionable for TAB execs to refer to TAB as a $2billion, $2.5billion company. I can give you numerous statements in the media of that. Whenever employment agencies have sought staff they refer to TAB as the $2.5 billion enterprise.

Even now reading Garry Chitticks submission to select committee this is a short snip " Having a Chairperson of any business with a $2.5 Billion turnover
with no previous or current industry experience borders on the ridiculous"

OK he may be correct as to the betting turnover $2.5billion but that is not the revenue figure size of businesses are judged by. A gambling business sales figure is the amount received from punters i.e. about $450 million.

Interesting that Garry Chittick was Chairman of Racing Board and still believes TAB is a $2.5Billion business so I can understand other people being fooled. That is why I continue to hammer the point.

So for more than 20 years the TAB salaries have been way out of kilter. One day someone will cotton on.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Nerula said:

TT I have my ear pretty close to the ground, but even what I said doesn't happen (and I would be surprised) there is a reality.. But practicalities --

There are a lot of lower income waged and proprietors in Racing Say 8000.. Put them on the dole the cost would be north of 5 million a week. 10 weeks 60m. There is a stake that would reboot the TAB. Better to be sucking out PAYE, ACC etc than paying dole

What is really pressing is the right administrator to sort the business out. Hence the judge who would be impartial, have had extensive skin in the game and a shit kicker to boot. No more political hacks and chancers, but how to keep them out long term? 

I think this has got beyond RITA and WP they need to stand back. Can the hearings, park the bureucrats (sp) until an admistrator gets this on an even keel

 

You have to be dreaming Nerula. Not sure where the 8000 figure comes from if you mean FTEs, but even so, that argument surely won't stand up, especially in the upcoming situation where the government is trying to get the economy back up and running. Surely, they will think those people would be better redeployed to viable industries e.g. horticulture and garner the income taxes etc. from there. As a taxpayer that's what I'd hope they would do. Not throw more money at a sinking ship.

Any administrator will need to work with what they've got.

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7 hours ago, Nerula said:

There is a certain Dame who could kick the thing into a semblance of life.

 

Surely you don't mean Goddard after her abysmal performance in the UK? Judge Clapham maybe an option?

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2 hours ago, Leggy said:

You have to be dreaming Nerula. Not sure where the 8000 figure comes from if you mean FTEs, but even so, that argument surely won't stand up, especially in the upcoming situation where the government is trying to get the economy back up and running. Surely, they will think those people would be better redeployed to viable industries e.g. horticulture and garner the income taxes etc. from there. As a taxpayer that's what I'd hope they would do. Not throw more money at a sinking ship.

Any administrator will need to work with what they've got.

Take out the 10 top trainers and look at the earnings of the rest, same for jockeys. then there are all the strappers and stablehands, small breeders, the drivers and feed store workers etc, etc.  They say 11000 make a livellihood from the racing industry so 8000 is not an unreasonable figure.. I suppose the ones in Waikato can hop over to BOP and pick Kiwifruit and then what?

Time will tell Legs.

BTW whats happening in the tertiary sector with no overseas students coming down. Will the redundant lecturers become pickers too. Pity apples and grapes are done. They could go to 'Kune, I suppose, carrots grow all year round.

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2 hours ago, Nerula said:

Take out the 10 top trainers and look at the earnings of the rest, same for jockeys. then there are all the strappers and stablehands, small breeders, the drivers and feed store workers etc, etc.  They say 11000 make a livellihood from the racing industry so 8000 is not an unreasonable figure.. I suppose the ones in Waikato can hop over to BOP and pick Kiwifruit and then what?

Time will tell Legs.

BTW whats happening in the tertiary sector with no overseas students coming down. Will the redundant lecturers become pickers too. Pity apples and grapes are done. They could go to 'Kune, I suppose, carrots grow all year round.

Not sure Neil. I retired from the tertiary sector a year ago and moved into horticulture and construction so not really up with the play on that.

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Surely Neil, if an administrator determines that the TAB could trade out of administration with a funding injection, then that funding should be underwritten by the industry, the codes and clubs, not the taxpayer? And that obligation would likely exclude the clubs that no longer will have licences to run race meetings. The remaining clubs would need to fund it.

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