RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
High Sparrow

Betting on two flies crawling up a wall next?

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New bet types for Egames I hear. And then there's American racing which is just as bad. Nebraska or some such place racing the other day - just numbers and horse names. No form, no jockeys, no trainers. Nothing. They expect people to bet on this rubbish? But bettors clearly aren't the mugs they think we are. The pools were so small they paid out two quinellas at Remington Park today paying 70 cents each!  Why would anyone bother betting on this rubbish?  I didn't think it could get any worse with the TAB offerings but even they continue to surprise me with their contempt for their customers.

Stay safe people.

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13 minutes ago, High Sparrow said:

New bet types for Egames I hear. And then there's American racing which is just as bad. Nebraska or some such place racing the other day - just numbers and horse names. No form, no jockeys, no trainers. Nothing. They expect people to bet on this rubbish? But bettors clearly aren't the mugs they think we are. The pools were so small they paid out two quinellas at Remington Park today paying 70 cents each!  Why would anyone bother betting on this rubbish?  I didn't think it could get any worse with the TAB offerings but even they continue to surprise me with their contempt for their customers.

Stay safe people.

Ukrainian Table Tennis looked like one option today , they are floundering a bit but it is a unprecedented situation so at least they are trying to keep it going  . I thought that e game and weird and the out the way sports made Remington Park 5k claimer look good .

Iam amazed someone knows the form of Ukrainian  table tennis enough to mark up prices , who gets that job ? 

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10 hours ago, High Sparrow said:

New bet types for Egames I hear. And then there's American racing which is just as bad. Nebraska or some such place racing the other day - just numbers and horse names. No form, no jockeys, no trainers. Nothing. They expect people to bet on this rubbish? But bettors clearly aren't the mugs they think we are. The pools were so small they paid out two quinellas at Remington Park today paying 70 cents each!  Why would anyone bother betting on this rubbish?  I didn't think it could get any worse with the TAB offerings but even they continue to surprise me with their contempt for their customers.

Stay safe people.

Ouch, for a Yank, that hurts.  At least, some jurisdictions are still running.  I've been to the track in Nebraska that you are referring to, Fonner Park.  It's a fun little 5/8ths mile track with its own little idiosyncrasies, much like Aussie country/bush racing.

As for no form, you are misinformed.  All you need to do is go to https://www.drf.com/ and purchase the form.  Attached is the form from last Wednesday.

As for the pools being small, again, you are incorrect.  Here is a comparison of Fonner Park last year versus this year:  Mar 24, 2019 - $279,577; Mar 25, 2020 - $1,643,825.  This was all-source handle, each day ran 8 races.  So minus the Pick 5 pool, each race had around $180,000 in WPS, Exacta, Trifecta, Superfecta, Pick 3, Pick 4 pools.  Hardly small pools.  People are definately betting Fonner Park.  Have a look at the pools for Gulfstream Park for yesterday (attached).  I didn't feel like doing the math, but for the 14 races, I'm sure it is well over $20 million.  You used Remington Park, which is currently running a quarter horse meeting.  There is very little interest in quarter horse racing in general, so using them as an example was a poor one.

So the problem is that you bet US racing into TAB pools in NZ.  I run into the same problem when I bet NZ racing here, very little in the pools.  One of these days, NZ and US racecourses will work out how to effectively co-mingle the pools like we do with Hong Kong.  Until then neither product will be worth betting in to.

FWIW - I still greatly enjoy tuning into and watching Kiwi racing.

To all down under, stay safe and healthy.  Cheers.

FONNER, 03-25-20.pdf

GP, 03-28-20.pdf

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21 minutes ago, Scanman said:

Ouch, for a Yank, that hurts.  At least, some jurisdictions are still running.  I've been to the track in Nebraska that you are referring to, Fonner Park.  It's a fun little 5/8ths mile track with its own little idiosyncrasies, much like Aussie country/bush racing.

As for no form, you are misinformed.  All you need to do is go to https://www.drf.com/ and purchase the form.  Attached is the form from last Wednesday.

As for the pools being small, again, you are incorrect.  Here is a comparison of Fonner Park last year versus this year:  Mar 24, 2019 - $279,577; Mar 25, 2020 - $1,643,825.  This was all-source handle, each day ran 8 races.  So minus the Pick 5 pool, each race had around $180,000 in WPS, Exacta, Trifecta, Superfecta, Pick 3, Pick 4 pools.  Hardly small pools.  People are definately betting Fonner Park.  Have a look at the pools for Gulfstream Park for yesterday (attached).  I didn't feel like doing the math, but for the 14 races, I'm sure it is well over $20 million.  You used Remington Park, which is currently running a quarter horse meeting.  There is very little interest in quarter horse racing in general, so using them as an example was a poor one.

So the problem is that you bet US racing into TAB pools in NZ.  I run into the same problem when I bet NZ racing here, very little in the pools.  One of these days, NZ and US racecourses will work out how to effectively co-mingle the pools like we do with Hong Kong.  Until then neither product will be worth betting in to.

FWIW - I still greatly enjoy tuning into and watching Kiwi racing.

To all down under, stay safe and healthy.  Cheers.

FONNER, 03-25-20.pdf

GP, 03-28-20.pdf

World pools in my view is the road forward.  

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I don't get why people are so up in arms about Nztab taking betting on E Sports. It doesn't interest me in the slightest so I don't bother even looking at it but I know of people who love esport so now being able to bet on it makes more new money coming in through the door and who knows they might like the punting thing and end up looking at other options including horse racing. I had an old school mate who opened an account to bet on surfing and it wasn't long before he was messaging me asking me for horse tips. 

As for American racing it is ashame there is no world pool as I'm sure there would then be more interest. It is funny how people look at different countries racing and say how bad it looks etc, I know I have said the same at some of the Japanese stuff we get fed but then think to myself it would be a similar look to those countries when they watch NZ in the middle of winter spread out over 300 meters at the finish. 

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Hey no offence to you Scanman or Fonner Park, Remington Park or any of the other courses where the NZ TAB offer betting. I'm sure some of these meetings are first class as you say. But why would I want to buy form for a meeting when the TAB can't even be bothered doing that from the very website you refer to? They only have themselves to blame for getting small pools. It's contempt for their customers and just plain lazy and this hasn't been happening just since Covid-19, it's been the fare handed out for quite some time. Good Luck to people who want to bet on esports as long as they are aware it is ripe for game fixing - but I guess that's true for just about any sport if people have a mind to do so.  Scanman I fear you may have misunderstood - I wasn't talking about the on-course turnover at Fonner Park or at the other US tracks themselves, I was talking about the NZ TAB's betting pools for most of these American races being so miniscule as to declare 70 cents dividends for $1 for two quinellas (Remington Park). The turnover would be miniscule here.

Co-mingling would be the answer as you say but at present we seem to have common ground on there not being any value in betting on those races in NZ - which was exactly my point.

Keep safe. Kind regards, HS.

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7 minutes ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

Just out of interest why do you think ESport are open to match fixing so easily?  Those players are earning pretty big money aren't they? 

I'd be much more worried about Ukrainian table tennis to be fair , I don't care if it's fixed as long as iam  on the winner  Vlad Knockapingpongballova 

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3 hours ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

I don't get why people are so up in arms about Nztab taking betting on E Sports. It doesn't interest me in the slightest so I don't bother even looking at it but I know of people who love esport so now being able to bet on it makes more new money coming in through the door and who knows they might like the punting thing and end up looking at other options including horse racing. I had an old school mate who opened an account to bet on surfing and it wasn't long before he was messaging me asking me for horse tips. 

As for American racing it is ashame there is no world pool as I'm sure there would then be more interest. It is funny how people look at different countries racing and say how bad it looks etc, I know I have said the same at some of the Japanese stuff we get fed but then think to myself it would be a similar look to those countries when they watch NZ in the middle of winter spread out over 300 meters at the finish. 

Are the E-Sports bets in NZ or offshore? Likewise the events

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1 hour ago, High Sparrow said:

Hey no offence to you Scanman or Fonner Park, Remington Park or any of the other courses where the NZ TAB offer betting. I'm sure some of these meetings are first class as you say. But why would I want to buy form for a meeting when the TAB can't even be bothered doing that from the very website you refer to? They only have themselves to blame for getting small pools. It's contempt for their customers and just plain lazy and this hasn't been happening just since Covid-19, it's been the fare handed out for quite some time. Good Luck to people who want to bet on esports as long as they are aware it is ripe for game fixing - but I guess that's true for just about any sport if people have a mind to do so.  Scanman I fear you may have misunderstood - I wasn't talking about the on-course turnover at Fonner Park or at the other US tracks themselves, I was talking about the NZ TAB's betting pools for most of these American races being so miniscule as to declare 70 cents dividends for $1 for two quinellas (Remington Park). The turnover would be miniscule here.

Co-mingling would be the answer as you say but at present we seem to have common ground on there not being any value in betting on those races in NZ - which was exactly my point.

Keep safe. Kind regards, HS.

Not to worry HS, none taken and I did work the handle/turnover bit towards the end.  Boy, do we ever need co-mingled/world pools, as many here and there have expressed.  Such a no-brainer, if they can work it out for Hong Kong, why not OZ/NZ or anywhere else in the world.  There is interest in racing overseas here in the US.

COVID-19 has been a curse for most of our racecourses, but a blessing for others.  Fonner Park is truly towards the bottom rung of tracks here in the US (albeit still a nice day to spend an afternoon), but they have been able to sieze on this opportunity with the other tracks not racing.  Their turnover is 5x its normal and have taken advantage of running mid-week leaving the Fri-Sun days for the big boys (Gulfstream, Oaklawn, Golden Gate, and Tampa Bay).  Personally, I'm thrilled for the success of this small player and I hope it will strengthen and attract more interest in their product.

I don't know enough about NZTAB and their operation to comment one way or the other.  Though, by reading many of the posts on this forum, they don't seem to be too popular.  What I can speak about is the awesome time I had when I visited 12 Kiwi racecourses in 2018 and how well I was treated at each one.  I greatly look forward to the time when I can return for another visit.

Just out of curiousity, are you able/permitted to set up an online account with any of our ADW sites (Twinspires, TVG, BetAmerica, XpressBet)?  For my part, I am not permitted by US law (enforced by NZ) to open a NZTAB account.  So for now, co-mingling would be my best hope, but I won't be holding my breath anytime soon.

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I agree with you on the co-mingling as bettors are a bit more encouraged/motivated when they are betting into bigger pools. I am not sure whether we can open accounts in America. We can certainly bet with other offshore bookmakers and betting sites. Someone else may know.

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4 hours ago, Aaron Bidlake said:

Just out of interest why do you think ESport are open to match fixing so easily?  Those players are earning pretty big money aren't they? 

Hi Aaron. I did qualify my remark by saying that virtually any sport could be fixed if people were motivated to do so but it strikes me that two gamers playing each other could quite easily get their heads together and bet on only one of them to win (if they had a mind to). The fact that professional sportsman are paid big money doesn't alter the human greed factor.  These gamers are precision players and very skillful in their own right - much like darts players or snooker players - and so the average Joe Bloggs like you or me wouldn't know about a near miss that can so easily skew the result. So it just strikes me that individual sports would be more likely to attract unscrupulous fixers than team sports, unless of course you're the goalie in hockey or football I suppose. If they could fix the 1919 World Series of baseball then anything is possible. We've seen examples of fixing results in cricket, tennis, racing and a number of other codes, so if its going on in team sports we can be pretty sure its going on in individual matches too. Gaming does not strike me as being any different. History shows us that wherever there is betting there are individuals looking to create an 'edge' and some resort to fixing to get it - others to doping. NZ racing has not been immune as you will know.  Ring-ins, a handful of NZ hurdle jockeys fixing races in the 50s (most got put out for life from memory), the head-to-head betting scandal when David Walker got seven years. That was just waiting to happen. If people want to bet on Esports then fine but not for mine. You pays your money and you take your chances. I've been involved in racing for 55 years and I love the sport as I know you do but its sad to see it in such decline these days and that's not all down to Covid-19 of course - mismanagement at the top level has to wear a lot of that.

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