RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
scooby3051

THIS IS SERIOUS PEOPLE MAKE NO MISTAKE

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10 hours ago, 6xes said:

according to your link... it suggests the government are now going about establishing a framework...

why would they need the framework?? if they are ALREADY justified by the LAW??

clearly you dont read half of what you post!!

Read it again...they don’t agree their actions were unlawful.....but will change the rules just in case....

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13 hours ago, Idolmite said:

Early draft copy only. There's no story here. NEXT!!!

The Bullying and Spin of Jacinda Ardern

By CS

Yesterday we broke the news that the Crown Law advice to the Police gave them few if any legal powers to enforce the lockdown.

Jacinda Ardern was clearly briefed that something was coming because during question time she rolled out her defence of the document.

There is a real problem with trying to use that defence. And this is why we put the details of the document into both the leaked email story and the leaked advice story.

The problem Jacinda Ardern has by calling this a draft opinion, is that upon receiving that opinion, the Deputy Commissioner Mike Clements, thought it was good enough to send and attach that document containing advice down the pipe to his line officers and regional commanders. He even provided his own summary of it when sending.

The next problem Jacinda Ardern has is that when they discovered that Mike Clements’ email had leaked, they’ve done what any office would do and gone after the documents, and then clutched on to a single line in a large document as their defence, without realising that the document had been disseminated widely to other Police. [The Crown Law reference for those wanting to OIA the document is POL055/2475].

This was what she used in parliament. So much for the most open and transparent government ever and also her claim to be able to exist in politics without ever telling a lie.

Wouldn’t the sensible answer be to release the final version? Instead we got flannel.

It was no surprise that Stuff ran a story earlier on Thursday and that the story matched exactly what Ardern said in the house. Her answers in the House and the Stuff story were pure flannel, attempting to distract from what they knew was going to be very embarrassing.

Which brings us to the bullying. When it became clear that the smoke and mirrors strategy had failed, Ardern got her functionaries in the Prime Minister’s Office to start hectoring the NZ Herald and NewstalkZB to pull the story because it was “wrong”, based on their claim the document was a draft. Ignoring of course that Mike Clements had sent the “draft” to his subordinates as gospel.

The problem with the “draft” story, apart from Mike Clements sending it everywhere, is that it presumes that there is a “final” version. If that is the case the Prime Minister must now clarify what the differences are between the “draft” and the “final” version.

And therein lies a further and rather an insurmountable problem, the laws quoted in the “draft” haven’t been changed. Therefore the advice cannot have been changed either. We know this to be the case because the subsequent Health Act notice made significant changes, which are now subject to a judicial review, in order to try to comply with the powers Police could use under the Health Act.

Furthermore, the Attorney General, David Parker, announced yesterday, that there would need to be law changes, required to support level two rules. Those rules are unenforceable under either the Health Act 1956 or the CDEMA.

So, if there were no problems and everything is all hunky-dory, why then the need to amend the law?

Occam’s Razor, that the simplest answer is most likely the best answer, suggests that the government knows they’ve been caught pants down and that they need to fix it.

Now, if they were really honest with us all, like they pretend they are, they’d say ‘we’re so sorry, we did what we had to do, and although we broke the law it was necessary’.

And you know what, most people would accept that.

What they won’t accept, though, are coverups and being lied to.

 

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

The Bullying and Spin of Jacinda Ardern

By CS

Yesterday we broke the news that the Crown Law advice to the Police gave them few if any legal powers to enforce the lockdown.

Jacinda Ardern was clearly briefed that something was coming because during question time she rolled out her defence of the document.

There is a real problem with trying to use that defence. And this is why we put the details of the document into both the leaked email story and the leaked advice story.

The problem Jacinda Ardern has by calling this a draft opinion, is that upon receiving that opinion, the Deputy Commissioner Mike Clements, thought it was good enough to send and attach that document containing advice down the pipe to his line officers and regional commanders. He even provided his own summary of it when sending.

The next problem Jacinda Ardern has is that when they discovered that Mike Clements’ email had leaked, they’ve done what any office would do and gone after the documents, and then clutched on to a single line in a large document as their defence, without realising that the document had been disseminated widely to other Police. [The Crown Law reference for those wanting to OIA the document is POL055/2475].

This was what she used in parliament. So much for the most open and transparent government ever and also her claim to be able to exist in politics without ever telling a lie.

Wouldn’t the sensible answer be to release the final version? Instead we got flannel.

It was no surprise that Stuff ran a story earlier on Thursday and that the story matched exactly what Ardern said in the house. Her answers in the House and the Stuff story were pure flannel, attempting to distract from what they knew was going to be very embarrassing.

Which brings us to the bullying. When it became clear that the smoke and mirrors strategy had failed, Ardern got her functionaries in the Prime Minister’s Office to start hectoring the NZ Herald and NewstalkZB to pull the story because it was “wrong”, based on their claim the document was a draft. Ignoring of course that Mike Clements had sent the “draft” to his subordinates as gospel.

The problem with the “draft” story, apart from Mike Clements sending it everywhere, is that it presumes that there is a “final” version. If that is the case the Prime Minister must now clarify what the differences are between the “draft” and the “final” version.

And therein lies a further and rather an insurmountable problem, the laws quoted in the “draft” haven’t been changed. Therefore the advice cannot have been changed either. We know this to be the case because the subsequent Health Act notice made significant changes, which are now subject to a judicial review, in order to try to comply with the powers Police could use under the Health Act.

Furthermore, the Attorney General, David Parker, announced yesterday, that there would need to be law changes, required to support level two rules. Those rules are unenforceable under either the Health Act 1956 or the CDEMA.

So, if there were no problems and everything is all hunky-dory, why then the need to amend the law?

Occam’s Razor, that the simplest answer is most likely the best answer, suggests that the government knows they’ve been caught pants down and that they need to fix it.

Now, if they were really honest with us all, like they pretend they are, they’d say ‘we’re so sorry, we did what we had to do, and although we broke the law it was necessary’.

And you know what, most people would accept that.

What they won’t accept, though, are coverups and being lied to.

 

 

 

 

 

Whoop dee do dah

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I think I'll just add a "so what" to the above couple of comments. Mistakes will happen during the haste that they've had to act during the crisis. Thank God they weren't as slow to act as the UK or the USA. Maybe they did make an initial error here. I guess time will tell.

As for the writers of some of these articles, and those posting them around the Internet, if they all spent as much time and effort into trying to do something helpful instead of finding petty little loopholes, the country overall would be a better place. 

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39 minutes ago, Idolmite said:

I think I'll just add a "so what" to the above couple of comments. Mistakes will happen during the haste that they've had to act during the crisis. Thank God they weren't as slow to act as the UK or the USA. Maybe they did make an initial error here. I guess time will tell.

As for the writers of some of these articles, and those posting them around the Internet, if they all spent as much time and effort into trying to do something helpful instead of finding petty little loopholes, the country overall would be a better place. 

They are doing the job that the main stream media should be doing, robust questioning and fact checking of the Pm and government.  Our MSM are nothing but fawning sycophants who question nothing and believe word for word everything Ardern says. Mind you being given $51 million with more to come (wink wink nudge nudge) means tough questions won't be asked either.  

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1 hour ago, rdytdy said:

 

This was supposed to be an open and transparent government was it not and the PM is on record as saying she believes you can be an MP without lying. There goes a flying pig past the window now. :rolleyes:

Or you could be in America or England.........while we'd all love perfection, under these current circumstances you're not going to get that anywhere. I'm not a Labour supporter, have never voted Labour in my life, but I think they've done a better job here than National could ever have done under current leadership. I'm just eternally thankful that I'm in NZ, and not Brazil, the USofA or the UK, or a great number of other places. I'm more thankful for what I've got, instead of nit-picking. 

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However, I must add, I do NOT agree with the way the Government has just done this huge document dump, no explanation, ministers gagged from talking to the media etc etc. I guess everybody will have to read through the hundreds of pages before we can even understand what's in it all. 

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3 hours ago, arjay said:

So what do you want? an apology?  You could be in Brazil, no controls, life as normal. But 10,000 new cases of the virus today, 8000 plus dead already. 

What is Brazil's population 2020?

212,559,417 people

The current population of Brazil is 212,236,662 as of Tuesday, April 14, 2020, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data. Brazil 2020 population is estimated at 212,559,417 people at mid year according to UN data. Brazil population is equivalent to 2.73% of the total world population.

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56 minutes ago, Idolmite said:

However, I must add, I do NOT agree with the way the Government has just done this huge document dump, no explanation, ministers gagged from talking to the media etc etc. I guess everybody will have to read through the hundreds of pages before we can even understand what's in it all. 

Or chasing media outlets and programmes to stop any negative comment on the Government ?.

Getting more socialist by the day....:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Idolmite said:

Or you could be in America or England.........while we'd all love perfection, under these current circumstances you're not going to get that anywhere. I'm not a Labour supporter, have never voted Labour in my life, but I think they've done a better job here than National could ever have done under current leadership. I'm just eternally thankful that I'm in NZ, and not Brazil, the USofA or the UK, or a great number of other places. I'm more thankful for what I've got, instead of nit-picking. 

Where comrade cindy has gone wrong is  she and her advisors haven't factored in population density , we , just like Australia are not densely populated .

New York 12000 per sq kilo m , London 5500 per sq kilo m , AUCKLAND 1200 PER SQ KILO M  , they have made no allowance for this fact , we all believe in social distancing , it works so it's not surprising we have comparatively low deaths . Cindy has one goal , re_election , she isn't prepared to take the smallest of chances , the social cost for her re election will be astronomical .

Give a ways  can't last for ever , sooner or later taxes will increase , houses will devalue , savings will be extinguished . We all know National have the track record for good financial management and that fact will be in their favour at election time . HOW LONG CAN THIS LAST ?

Jacinda Ardern, Grant Robertson

More than 40% of New Zealand’s workforce is now being supported by the Government’s wage subsidy scheme.

1.073 million people, or 41% of those in employment as at December 2019 (the most recent labour market figures available), are being supported by the subsidy.

Because unemployment has likely increased since the December quarter, the 1.073 million workers being helped by the scheme will make up an even larger portion of the current workforce.

 

 

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The shit is going to hit the fan. If someone is able to post the video of Tova O'Brien talking about this please do so as it is very enlightening. 

Leak: Jacinda Ardern gags ministers on discussing COVID-19 response

Newshub has been leaked an internal memo sent to all ministers from the Prime Minister's office instructing them not to speak to the media about Friday afternoon's document dump. 

It directs that ministers instead respond with brief written comments that must be signed off by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. 

The gag order was sent ahead of a Friday afternoon document dump of official papers relating to the Government's COVID-19 response.

 
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Watch Newshub political editor Tova O'Brien's report. Credits: Image - Getty; Video - Newshub

Newshub has been leaked an internal memo sent to all ministers from the Prime Minister's office instructing them not to speak to the media about Friday afternoon's document dump. 

It directs that ministers instead respond with brief written comments that must be signed off by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. 

The gag order was sent ahead of a Friday afternoon document dump of official papers relating to the Government's COVID-19 response. 

Related News

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"If you do get a media query on this please provide a written response," it reads. "I would like to sign off and see all written response (sic). Do not put Minister up for any interviews on this."  

The documents were released at 2pm - after the Government's only press conference of the day. 

Newshub requested an interview with Health Minister David Clark - it was declined. 

 

 

Photo credit: Supplied

The leaked memo provides specific talking points to keep them on message, including: "Perfect would have been the public enemy of the good," and, "Tough calls had to be made and we stand by them."

It says due to public buy-in the Government doesn't have to explain its response. 

"There's no real need to defend. Because the public have confidence in what has been achieved and what the Govt [sic] is doing. Instead we can dismiss."

It lists talking points by topic - including one for "Opposition" which points to a press release from National leader Simon Bridges on March 23. 

"We won't regret moving quickly to stop this virus spreading. We may have regrets if we don't," it attributes to the leader of the Opposition.

 

Newshub
 
 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

The shit is going to hit the fan. If someone is able to post the video of Tova O'Brien talking about this please do so as it is very enlightening. 

Leak: Jacinda Ardern gags ministers on discussing COVID-19 response

Newshub has been leaked an internal memo sent to all ministers from the Prime Minister's office instructing them not to speak to the media about Friday afternoon's document dump. 

It directs that ministers instead respond with brief written comments that must be signed off by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. 

The gag order was sent ahead of a Friday afternoon document dump of official papers relating to the Government's COVID-19 response.

 
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1:53
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Watch Newshub political editor Tova O'Brien's report. Credits: Image - Getty; Video - Newshub

Newshub has been leaked an internal memo sent to all ministers from the Prime Minister's office instructing them not to speak to the media about Friday afternoon's document dump. 

It directs that ministers instead respond with brief written comments that must be signed off by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. 

The gag order was sent ahead of a Friday afternoon document dump of official papers relating to the Government's COVID-19 response. 

Related News

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"If you do get a media query on this please provide a written response," it reads. "I would like to sign off and see all written response (sic). Do not put Minister up for any interviews on this."  

The documents were released at 2pm - after the Government's only press conference of the day. 

Newshub requested an interview with Health Minister David Clark - it was declined. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Photo credit: Supplied

 

The leaked memo provides specific talking points to keep them on message, including: "Perfect would have been the public enemy of the good," and, "Tough calls had to be made and we stand by them."

It says due to public buy-in the Government doesn't have to explain its response. 

"There's no real need to defend. Because the public have confidence in what has been achieved and what the Govt [sic] is doing. Instead we can dismiss."

It lists talking points by topic - including one for "Opposition" which points to a press release from National leader Simon Bridges on March 23. 

"We won't regret moving quickly to stop this virus spreading. We may have regrets if we don't," it attributes to the leader of the Opposition.

 

 

 

Newshub
 
 

No it is not very important in the mix of things, people just want to return to living as best as they can, The boss is the boss, you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time. Some media person will not get enought ooomph to drive a fart thru this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"If you do get a media query on this please provide a written response," it reads. "I would like to sign off and see all written response (sic). Do not put Minister up for any interviews on this."  

The documents were released at 2pm - after the Government's only press conference of the day. 

Newshub requested an interview with Health Minister David Clark - it was declined. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Photo credit: Supplied

 

The leaked memo provides specific talking points to keep them on message, including: "Perfect would have been the public enemy of the good," and, "Tough calls had to be made and we stand by them."

It says due to public buy-in the Government doesn't have to explain its response. 

"There's no real need to defend. Because the public have confidence in what has been achieved and what the Govt [sic] is doing. Instead we can dismiss."

It lists talking points by topic - including one for "Opposition" which points to a press release from National leader Simon Bridges on March 23. 

"We won't regret moving quickly to stop this virus spreading. We may have regrets if we don't," it attributes to the leader of the Opposition.

 

 

 

Newshub
 
 

No it is not very important in the mix of things, people just want to return to living as best as they can, The boss is the boss, you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time. Some media person will not get enought ooomph to drive a fart thru this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Idolmite said:

However, I must add, I do NOT agree with the way the Government has just done this huge document dump, no explanation, ministers gagged from talking to the media etc etc. I guess everybody will have to read through the hundreds of pages before we can even understand what's in it all. 

It was done to muddy the waters. It was also stated that a small number of documents and some parts of the documents are not released. They would be the ones that need to be seen.   

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12 hours ago, rdytdy said:

It was done to muddy the waters. It was also stated that a small number of documents and some parts of the documents are not released. They would be the ones that need to be seen.   

theres something a little odd about what Tova O'brien said... which kinda doesnt make sense

she makes a reference to the documents dating as far back as January!!  thats sort of odd...

if the documents span that far back.. it begs the question regarding the Covid response... of how far ahead of time did they realise that something was going to take place!!??

maybe im reading into her statements too early??

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Have you not been reading her articles on Stuff news lately. Besides her opinion of Simon Bridges is shared by  the vast majority of New Zealanders. He will never become Prime Minister of New Zealand

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11 hours ago, 6xes said:

theres something a little odd about what Tova O'brien said... which kinda doesnt make sense

she makes a reference to the documents dating as far back as January!!  thats sort of odd...

if the documents span that far back.. it begs the question regarding the Covid response... of how far ahead of time did they realise that something was going to take place!!??

maybe im reading into her statements too early??

Well in February Ashley Bloomfield told them to close the border but Ardern was focused on wanting to play dress up and put on a sad face and hug everyone for the Mosque massacre anniversary (even though they didn't want it) for media attention (something the narcissist craves). Everything else was put on the backburner. So yes, I am sure that in January there would be Government documents relating to Covid-19.  

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2 hours ago, Stables said:

Have you not been reading her articles on Stuff news lately. Besides her opinion of Simon Bridges is shared by  the vast majority of New Zealanders. He will never become Prime Minister of New Zealand

Once Stuff indicated that they wouldn't accept negative comments on the Enviroment

 in their'' Letters to the Editor'' i  gave them the heave ho.

They are a rubbish media organization.

Both major media groups in NZ appear to publish to many controversial  opinions rather than facts.

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, crustyngrizzly said:

Once Stuff indicated that they wouldn't accept negative comments on the Enviroment

 in their'' Letters to the Editor'' i  gave them the heave ho.

They are a rubbish media organization.

Both major media groups in NZ appear to publish to many controversial  opinions rather than facts.

 

 

 

How Free is Our Press Really?

By Justin Knight

Freedom of the press is the right to circulate opinions in print without censorship by the government. An independent press is one of the essential pillars of democracy. It’s the people’s protection against secret government, against authoritarianism and against tyranny. Without the press, the concept of a democratic system of government starts to weaken and after a while, the democracy crumbles. With their role to inform, criticise and stimulate debate, an independent press preserves the freedom of the people.

 

Jacinda Ardern must have been grateful when another crisis rolled in to take the spotlight away from the fact that she was miserably failing at government. She badly needed this crisis. In late 2019 Jacinda was exposed as a hypocrite of gigantic proportions given her self-appointed anointment as a champion for women’s rights and equality. She denied knowing about a staffer being sexually assaulted, contrary to a wave of evidence that she had known for a very long time.

Cartoon-The_BFD-Jacinda-Ardern-under-the The BFD. Cartoon credit SonovaMin

I was relieved that we had such a free and independent press to kick the tyres around all the other little details she may miss in this “crisis”. It was already obvious to me through numerous examples that Jacinda looked after Jacinda and that she was a narcissistic, out of control force with little respect for democracy, fuelled by lazy overseas journalism fawning over what’s turned out to be a one-trick crisis pony.

Thankfully though our free and independent press would ensure Jacinda wouldn’t miss little details like a sexual assault happening under her watch and make sure that the validity of the information being rolled out was accurate and requisite actions appropriate. There was little to no chance of an authoritarian tyrant running our shores under a wave of secrecy, unilaterally making massive decisions affecting everyone’s lives. Our excellent independent press would take care of that.

As the first days passed by and the Government started taking extreme measures, deciding which businesses could stay open and telling people what they could and couldn’t do in their bubbles while also throwing in scenarios of catastrophic death, I waited for the press to add some balance. I waited for them to show the other side so that Kiwis would be able to make their own decisions around the legitimacy of the government’s actions.

The nonsensical rules funnelling people through supermarkets when other food options weren’t allowed to open, no swimming, no fishing, no greenkeepers. The tragedy of not being able to see dying relatives and intergenerational businesses being ruined wasn’t enough to get any balance in the press. I waited and waited but a very compliant, state-friendly press wouldn’t do their job.

nz-media-pre-bailout.jpg?resize=630%2C46 The BFD. Photoshopped image credit Luke

There was a lot of clapping from the press and not much informing. There was no criticising and there was no debate. The lies from Ardern kept coming with it becoming as blatant as claiming that a week’s level 4 extension was two days and that she was unaware of roadblocks manned by gangs.

When Mikhael Gorbachev was overthrown in August 1991, signalling the end of the Soviet Union, the very first thing Gennady Yanayev and the eight-member Emergency Committee that took control did, was to issue Resolution No. 1, which banned strikes and demonstrations and imposed press censorship. A controlled press does not allow a democracy to function, and when you add in a Government-sponsored dob-in-your-neighbour site, the combination is a dystopian farmyard of compliant miserable animals.

Concerned that Jacinda Ardern was heading the same way, I contacted the opposition politicians voicing my concern that the media were coerced by and beholden to the Government and that one of our fundamental pillars of democracy was being lost. They were well aware of the fact and their solution was the select committee chaired by Simon Bridges shown live on Parliament TV.

Effectively the alternative viewpoint was being forced into the media through pertinent questions around the lockdown and health response although that wasn’t getting many column inches, and when Simon did what he’s meant to do as an opposition leader, which is to ask questions, his family received death threats.

Do I have proof of the Government directly meddling in the media? I believe I do.

On the 14th of April Stuff finally ran a story with an alternative viewpoint to the boringly rolled out narrative of we are all going to die and people were ruining lockdown by driving or exercising out of their bubble, whatever that meant.

Playschool_corona.jpg?resize=630%2C403&s The BFD. Photoshopped image credit Boondecker

As Jacinda sat down to talk to the country like an episode of playschool, an excellent and well-balanced article written by Dr Simon Thornley, Senior Lecturer in Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the University of Auckland, and backed by a multitude of health professionals in New Zealand, presented a plan B. Essentially it pointed out that the Government’s strategy was not proportional to the threat posed by COVID-19 to New Zealanders’ health and that it was likely to substantially harm the nation’s long-term health and well-being, social fabric, economy, and education.

They proposed a plan B separating the low-risk people from the high-risk people and opening the country domestically with immediate effect. It was a brilliant and well thought out plan by a cross-disciplinary group of academics concerned about the welfare and futures of all Kiwis. As a democracy, New Zealand deserved that viewpoint and it was the number one trending article on Stuff that day.

At the peak of the trending of that article, Stuff editor Mark Stevens removed the entire text of the Plan B story and replaced it with a completely different story about how dangerous it would be to open the country and how we would all die and how reckless it was for anyone to suggest anything else such as a move out of our virtual house arrest. The link did not change so immediately the new text became the new number one trending story.

Read that again.

The Stuff editorial team removed an entire story by a group of New Zealand academics and replaced the text with Government propaganda on exactly the same link.

The hilariously scary thing is just days later, on the 21st of April, Stuff sent everyone an email asking for donations with this text:

“Today, open and robust public discourse is under great threat. Together, with your support, we can continue to play our role in safeguarding a free and open society, and fostering a democracy that’s accountable to all its citizens.”

Boondecker-The_BFD-Stuff_begging-copy.jp The BFD. Photoshopped image credit Boondecker

I wrote to Mark Stevens expressing my disgust at his government sponsored propaganda machine and am still awaiting a response.

I would ask that the next people brought before the select committee be the editors of the major newspapers with the above example being the first issue probed.

We need to understand as a nation the level of control the Government has exerted over our free and independent press and why the level of compliance exists. The control of the press woven in with the doubtful legality of the lockdown and the dubious basis of the “death forecasts” used to corral the citizens paints a pretty complete picture of authoritarian tyranny.

Jacinda Ardern must be held to account.

 

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