drewandjo 129 Report post Posted March 10, 2020 I understand the concept of bumpers and NH Flat Races and the type of horse that are bred to run in them......True Self's sire Oscar has sired nearly 700 winners and she is is only official black type winner Naas last Sunday was yielding to soft and one of Joseph O'Brien's took 3.52 to run a 30 yards short of 2 miles. So yeah definitely different conditions than a summers day at Ellerslie. My point was that while it may not have seemed a quality field they still ran the fastest time in 10 years and only the second edition to break 3.20 in over 20 years. skoota, Breeder and Red Rum 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted March 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, drewandjo said: I understand the concept of bumpers and NH Flat Races and the type of horse that are bred to run in them......True Self's sire Oscar has sired nearly 700 winners and she is is only official black type winner Naas last Sunday was yielding to soft and one of Joseph O'Brien's took 3.52 to run a 30 yards short of 2 miles. So yeah definitely different conditions than a summers day at Ellerslie. My point was that while it may not have seemed a quality field they still ran the fastest time in 10 years and only the second edition to break 3.20 in over 20 years. In no way knocking a top win by Cup winner , ran out trip like a superbly conditioned horse . One thing I would say about Joseph O'Briens Naas winner as well as yielding to soft ground is she is a 5 year old mare , 3rd lifetime start , ridden by Amateur with 2 wins last 5 years , carried 71kgs , 16 kilos more than the 55kgs of Cup winner . That's a decent lump of weight more . 3200 metres is slightly less than two miles as well. The 3.45 Annie Power ran in Champion Hurdle few years back was shifting a bit with weight to carry , hurdles to jump and hill to climb at end . drewandjo 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewandjo 129 Report post Posted March 11, 2020 am backing a Mullins runner in the Champion Bumper tonight...but not one of Willies Red Rum 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted March 11, 2020 4 hours ago, drewandjo said: am backing a Mullins runner in the Champion Bumper tonight...but not one of Willies Envoi Allen done the job in style . Franco de Ports decent each way chance in Coral. Very lightly raced , first up in handicap sometimes works out in these big field races , Strutum could get close too . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoopa 281 Report post Posted March 15, 2020 Rumbo, how did those grade 1 bumper , hurdle and chase times over 2m and 2m 1/2furlong running on a heavy side of soft on an undulated course at the festival compare do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted March 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Swoopa said: Rumbo, how did those grade 1 bumper , hurdle and chase times over 2m and 2m 1/2furlong running on a heavy side of soft on an undulated course at the festival compare do you think? To be honest Swoopa I pay very little regard to times in national hunt racing , how many times does tape go up and no one wants to take it up so it's a Mexican standoff . At Cheltenham the pace is on due to prestige and prize , big fields . Tough track , although downhill fence smoothed out . A dodgy jumper will likely get found out there so the pace comes into it that way, can that horse get round without losing too much with odd mistake etc .To compare track, going ,distance as in steeplechasing side slight differences in amount of jumps, water jumps , open ditches vary slightly course to course , plus track characteristics makes imho times a minor issue . Desert Orchid got his Gold Cup win , but left handed Cheltenham layout never his thing , Kempton Sandown a flying machine , times minor part of puzzle . As for bumper trip it's about 25 yards shorter now but to be fair two best winners I've seen Monsignor and Envoi Allen both ran quicker than average times . Monsignor was a champion in waiting but fragile legs let him down . Swoopa 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoopa 281 Report post Posted March 16, 2020 Regarding the comparison to the Auckland Cup.Pretty even taking everything into consideration Red Rum 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...