poundforpound

Any updates on Inca ?

25 posts in this topic

On 2/28/2020 at 8:25 PM, Stables said:

No

I did some fishing myself at my local and yeah I was off the mark with SB. Yep, understand who now and after reading the 4 x articles on McGrath I'll never have a bet on the trots again.

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On 3/3/2020 at 4:19 AM, Lee270744 said:

I'm with you TDO I was in Aussie when they had a ring-in, I will never back a galloper again, another time there was a card counter at the casino and that put me right off casinos. 

I got put off lotto when I saw the odds where 1 in 3,800,000.

 

"You know the odds, now beat them".

I've just read in the media today that two high profile harness trainers/drivers have plead GUILTY to possession and SUPPLY of a Class B drug.   Another trainer/driver has been arrested on strangulation and assault charges.

C.J. DeFilippi  - "some say they need some stuff to keep them going".

Lee what are you going to spend your $$$ on now?

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they need to tidy it up now, taking too long to get results one way or the other.I think its been blown out of proportion but they tried to go too deep on bum info and trying at huge costs and damage to the industry to prove their initial fantasy that there was a major betting ring operating. Drivers may have had a bet individually through someone, deal with it under the rules eg Lawson & Dixon and move on. They do it again give them 7 to 10 years.

John Allen listened to bum info and where is he today.

They should have hauled them in earlier charged them with what they had and moved on instead they read into it on the info given to them that read like it was a John Grisham conspiracy novel and  went looking for something that was never there like they made out had existed.  

End of day someones head or heads needs to roll. Just a total shambles and embarrassing investigation. The supplier of drugs caught up initial charge 12 dropped to 1 and given a fine. At the start once you read the charges on him it wasn't a matter of doing time just how long for.

If it goes to court my call is it will get thrown out and told by the judge it was never a court matter and under the rules of harness racing it should have been dealt with in house.  

If that does happen then the accused lawyers can look to counter attack and issue proceedings that their clients were wrongly arrested and charged and seek compensation.

If the drivers concerned bet individually with another party and were not betting collectively which would destroy any team driving betting charges then it had to de dealt with under NZ harness betting rules.

Rule change 2019 AGM below. Reason to make it clear. So admission that originally it was an ambiguous rule. 

Quote

Rule 505 - Betting on Horseman’s Betting Account (proposed by HRNZ Board) Remit Amend rule 505(1) to state: 505 (1) A driver may not bet, or have another person bet on their behalf, on any horse or combination of horses, in a race in which he or she is driving. Reason To make clear it is an offence for a driver to have someone place a bet on their behalf in a drivers challenge and on a race

.(2) A breach of this sub-rule (1) is declared to be a serious racing offence;

Racing offence not a NZ criminal law breaking offence. If the prosecution can't prove that all the drivers involved were in together  rigging a race(s) which is a NZ criminal act they are in trouble and it should never have gone to court.

And then Mr Beirne's lawyers will go and make a case that their client should never have been charged as he broke no NZ criminal law. The NZ law doesn't say someone can't place a bet on behalf of someone else.   

Good luck to them proving the drivers and Mr Beirne were involved in race rigging i would have them at write your own odds as been successful.

100% i know how it all started but the info wasn't used correctly to be dealt with as it needed to be.Very silly costly and damaging to the industry  move.

And i have no doubt if it does go to court a lot more will come out which will prove very damaging and career limiting to a few in NZ Racing organisations and one outside department.     

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5 hours ago, LightsOut said:

they need to tidy it up now, taking too long to get results one way or the other.I think its been blown out of proportion but they tried to go too deep on bum info and trying at huge costs and damage to the industry to prove their initial fantasy that there was a major betting ring operating. Drivers may have had a bet individually through someone, deal with it under the rules eg Lawson & Dixon and move on. They do it again give them 7 to 10 years.

John Allen listened to bum info and where is he today.

They should have hauled them in earlier charged them with what they had and moved on instead they read into it on the info given to them that read like it was a John Grisham conspiracy novel and  went looking for something that was never there like they made out had existed.  

End of day someones head or heads needs to roll. Just a total shambles and embarrassing investigation. The supplier of drugs caught up initial charge 12 dropped to 1 and given a fine. At the start once you read the charges on him it wasn't a matter of doing time just how long for.

If it goes to court my call is it will get thrown out and told by the judge it was never a court matter and under the rules of harness racing it should have been dealt with in house.  

If that does happen then the accused lawyers can look to counter attack and issue proceedings that their clients were wrongly arrested and charged and seek compensation.

If the drivers concerned bet individually with another party and were not betting collectively which would destroy any team driving betting charges then it had to de dealt with under NZ harness betting rules.

Rule change 2019 AGM below. Reason to make it clear. So admission that originally it was an ambiguous rule. 

.(2) A breach of this sub-rule (1) is declared to be a serious racing offence;

Racing offence not a NZ criminal law breaking offence. If the prosecution can't prove that all the drivers involved were in together  rigging a race(s) which is a NZ criminal act they are in trouble and it should never have gone to court.

And then Mr Beirne's lawyers will go and make a case that their client should never have been charged as he broke no NZ criminal law. The NZ law doesn't say someone can't place a bet on behalf of someone else.   

Good luck to them proving the drivers and Mr Beirne were involved in race rigging i would have them at write your own odds as been successful.

100% i know how it all started but the info wasn't used correctly to be dealt with as it needed to be.Very silly costly and damaging to the industry  move.

And i have no doubt if it does go to court a lot more will come out which will prove very damaging and career limiting to a few in NZ Racing organisations and one outside department.     

At last I read something which is objective and explains where this matter sits .

I was only saying yesterday when is HRNZ , JCA , all appointed lawyers , people like me all collectively go to the Minister of Police and stop this expensive damaging game now !

I have my views where it started and why it started but enough is enough - or are the RIU & Police really out to destroy the great sport and peoples lives with no hard facts 

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I can tell you exactly how it started.

Kyle Selinger the dodgy car dealer ( best mate of the RIU expert witness and willing evidence fabricator Andrew Greirson ) fell out in a business deal with Graham Beirne so he narked to the Police ( and the RIU I’m told ) Selinger made the whole story up based on Berne’s bullshit stories about his punting, then DI Neville Jenkins, CHCH CIB, who failed in the Blue Magic inquiry and is said to have had serious historical mental health issues himself, and who literally has blood on his hands from that failed Blue Magic inquiry, got involved, and driven by the ignorant lying RIU staff they concocted a huge story with no basis in fact.....aided by a number of liars, or at best ignorant imbeciles, including but not limited to Neville Jenkins, Nigel McIntyre, Peter Lamb, Neil Grimstone and Andrew Greirson 

The most amazing thing about this is that the industry hasn’t completely marginalized Greirson and Selinger for the damage they’ve done, the huge money in legal fees they’ve cost everyone, the families that've suffered, the careers already lost, and the very real possibility that they’re going to have more blood on their hands before this is over 

The Police can’t find a money trail, they can’t find betting irregularities, they can’t find a licensee to “turn” and support them ( other than Michael House but he has no evidence, he’s just a rat ) and this will go down in history as the biggest Police failure ever, and the biggest RIU witch hunt we’ve seen.

 

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Given the results too date verse the cost of the operation it wouldn't surprise me to see the Police Commissioner end it and say to the RIU based on facts and supporting evidence this is going to drag on and cost millions more so you guys deal with it under the Rules of Racing, which is exactly how it should have happened in the first place. Graham Beirne has never really struck me as a person to fabricate his punting 

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3 hours ago, poundforpound said:

I can tell you exactly how it started.

Kyle Selinger the dodgy car dealer ( best mate of the RIU expert witness and willing evidence fabricator Andrew Greirson ) fell out in a business deal with Graham Beirne so he narked to the Police ( and the RIU I’m told ) Selinger made the whole story up based on Berne’s bullshit stories about his punting, then DI Neville Jenkins, CHCH CIB, who failed in the Blue Magic inquiry and is said to have had serious historical mental health issues himself, and who literally has blood on his hands from that failed Blue Magic inquiry, got involved, and driven by the ignorant lying RIU staff they concocted a huge story with no basis in fact.....aided by a number of liars, or at best ignorant imbeciles, including but not limited to Neville Jenkins, Nigel McIntyre, Peter Lamb, Neil Grimstone and Andrew Greirson 

The most amazing thing about this is that the industry hasn’t completely marginalized Greirson and Selinger for the damage they’ve done, the huge money in legal fees they’ve cost everyone, the families that've suffered, the careers already lost, and the very real possibility that they’re going to have more blood on their hands before this is over 

The Police can’t find a money trail, they can’t find betting irregularities, they can’t find a licensee to “turn” and support them ( other than Michael House but he has no evidence, he’s just a rat ) and this will go down in history as the biggest Police failure ever, and the biggest RIU witch hunt we’ve seen.

 

Sorry to show my ignorance, but Michael House's name keeps coming up. Is he a significant player here?

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1 hour ago, Ludwig said:

Sorry to show my ignorance, but Michael House's name keeps coming up. Is he a significant player here?

There’s been concerns about his involvement with the RIU for a while and recently he’s been acting as an agent for the RIU and trying to persuade at least one defendant to plead guilty and take a lesser penalty 

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49 minutes ago, Stables said:
50 minutes ago, Stables said:

I think Graham Beirnes whole life has been based on fabrication

 

Become a multi millionaire living a life of fabrication I don't think so. Maybe another area in the Operation could be tagged with having that trait.

fabrication definition: 1. the act of inventing false information

Personally I think it wasn't Selinger which got the ball rolling but once Beirnes name was thrown in the ring then the personal contact from the RIU may have met the said person to request information on any betting activity he may have been aware of. 100% if a supposed money man is involved in any form belonging to a race betting syndicate involving trainers/drivers he is highly unlikely to have discussed any of the betting  activity to anyone outside of the syndicate. Beirne is a car dealer which equals street wise he wouldn't be talking out of school.

Selinger is a white herring and maybe Beirne thought initially he went to the RIU trying to get him back for a sour business deal or deals. The RIU couldn't be that stupid to read into a disgruntled ex business associate of Beirnes taht a major betting syndicate was operating. The RIU have stewards and a betting analyst to monitor any irregular racing and betting patterns. If they needed someone like Selinger to know something major like this was going on what the hell were they doing to have not picked it up earlier.  

 

Quote

There’s been concerns about his involvement with the RIU for a while and recently he’s been acting as an agent for the RIU and trying to persuade at least one defendant to plead guilty and take a lesser penalty 

That's a major integrity concern if your using someone who is accountable to an organisation that polices him like all the others licensed people involved in the same Industry.A defendant coerced to enter a guilty plea in this type of situation would be a big concern  by a judge. If they used House like this then the integrity of any future charges concerning his driving training or other matters relating to his license becomes a major integrity issue as people in the Industry could think &  believe that any judicial decision will reflect a lighter sentence for the assistance that he gave to the operation.   You would use your own Racing Industry staff that the Industry pays for to carry out this type of situation nothing less.

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23 hours ago, poundforpound said:

and recently he’s been acting as an agent for the RIU and trying to persuade at least one defendant to plead guilty and take a lesser penalty 

I am led to believe that poundforpound's comment here is totally accurate.

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