Nukkledragga 229 Report post Posted February 24, 2020 2 hours ago, poundforpound said: Melody Belle not getting a penalty for winning a G1 is absolutely fine “if” she’s only running up to the mark she’s already on, arguably she could win a G1 in NZ and be rated downward The real problem with MB winning penalty free is that the points differential SHRINKS between MB and the beaten brigade and when those horses revert back to hcp racing they have no show.While there must be some penalty , giving more points to 2nd or 3rd place runners is wrong, not knowing the likely points/ max points b4 the race is wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnyTom 1,542 Report post Posted February 24, 2020 We already have it NI SI racing _ simple Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauhei Notts 1,413 Report post Posted February 25, 2020 Turny Tom talks about the two tier racing between the North and The South. I note that they have a $35,000 open handicap at Wingatui where seven of the entrants are rated at 87 or better. They have a $50,000 open handicap at Ellerslie where the highest rated entrant is on 83!!! Insider, Pam Robson, We're Doomed and 1 other 2 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauhei Notts 1,413 Report post Posted February 25, 2020 I looked further. They put up $22,500 for a R65 race at Wingatui and got 26 entries. Ellerslie put up $50,000 for a R65 race and guess how many entries they got? Try. Get this. Seven! Insider, dock leaf and Pam Robson 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,868 Report post Posted February 25, 2020 5 hours ago, Tauhei Notts said: I looked further. They put up $22,500 for a R65 race at Wingatui and got 26 entries. Ellerslie put up $50,000 for a R65 race and guess how many entries they got? Try. Get this. Seven! And two of those seven nominated for two races, so possibly only five starters. Of course I'm sure some other trainers who had no intention of starting will see such a pathetic field and decide they might as well line up. It does show that the stake has only a minimal effect on the size and quality of the field. Imagine what a $50,000 rating 65 1,400m would attract in the South. dock leaf 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,868 Report post Posted February 25, 2020 Good to see the Metrop winner back in NZ and nominated for Wingatui. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,093 Report post Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, We're Doomed said: And two of those seven nominated for two races, so possibly only five starters. Of course I'm sure some other trainers who had no intention of starting will see such a pathetic field and decide they might as well line up. It does show that the stake has only a minimal effect on the size and quality of the field. Imagine what a $50,000 rating 65 1,400m would attract in the South. And one is a 22 start 6yo mdn! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted February 25, 2020 Managing decline is working particularly well. 4 horses initially nominated for a mdn 1200 at Awapuni, now there is 12. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rum 1,833 Report post Posted February 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Huey said: Managing decline is working particularly well. 4 horses initially nominated for a mdn 1200 at Awapuni, now there is 12. David Hayes got a runner in , cannot be the David Hayes . It is OZ bred , by Patinack Farm ( they let rip and fizzled like a firework on a rainy night ) . 7 year old maiden mare . Maybe Hayes has given her time , heading to Spring Melbourne . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,868 Report post Posted February 25, 2020 Interesting that they ended up with 12 for the race with 7 noms, so they came out of the woodwork. But the 65 1,600m ended up with only 8 acceptors; compared with Wingatui where 12 horses were balloted and eliminated in the 65 1,600m. Interesting too that the two open races at Wingatui both ended up with 8 horses rated 80 or higher and top weights at 96 and 94. Compared to the Nathans with two over 80 and a top weight of 83. Even the rating 82 stayers at Wingatui did better than that with three over 80 and a top rating of 84. So does that mean SI horses are really good, or unfairly treated in the handicaps? Serious question. Even the fillies races are interesting. Smallish field at Ellerslie; three over 70 and a top rating of 75. Capacity field at Wingatui; four over 70 and a top rating of 78. How exactly can the Auckland race be group 3 and Wingatui only listed? Leggy, Huey and arjay 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauhei Notts 1,413 Report post Posted February 26, 2020 We're Doomed. What a fascinating study in how badly treated the South Island horses are in the ratings system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurnyTom 1,542 Report post Posted February 26, 2020 P4P that's been the basis of my comments over the last week Petone has not a clue and SI racing is being hung out, wrongly Huey, arjay and Tauhei Notts 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob dobalino 25 Report post Posted February 26, 2020 Yes Poundforpound that is the crux of the problem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubes 1,770 Report post Posted February 26, 2020 4 hours ago, poundforpound said: A win a Wyndham or Reefton is the same as a win at Trentham or Ellerslie according to the morons in PETONE ......a sad joke really A win in the South Island is always betterer than a win in the non-Mainland Sux- Suxty...........Don't forget your roots We're Doomed, Pam Robson and dock leaf 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,868 Report post Posted February 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, Cubes said: A win in the South Island is always betterer than a win in the non-Mainland Sux- Suxty...........Don't forget your roots We are getting to the stage where SI racing is much more attractive than many northern meetings, especially the CD. Lots of small fields this week at Hastings and Manawatu. I just hope Otago makes some effort this weekend to attract the public to Wingatui. I suspect these days the clubs don't make much effort given the funding model. Huey, Pam Robson, dock leaf and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,093 Report post Posted February 26, 2020 20 minutes ago, Cubes said: A win in the South Island is always betterer than a win in the non-Mainland Sux- Suxty...........Don't forget your roots He's had so many roots you could hardly expect him to remember many of them Cubes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,093 Report post Posted February 26, 2020 I was going to say he's had so few roots, I'm sure he remembers all of them and he's still paying for most of them, but I thought better of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uneasy 497 Report post Posted February 26, 2020 Thats why more and more better performed South Island horses are going overseas. In recent times we have sold Chuck A Luck, Savvy Lad, Cadman, Czechoslovakia and another 3 year old being vetted this morning. But Patrick Erin has returned Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted February 26, 2020 13 hours ago, Cubes said: A win in the South Island is always betterer than a win in the non-Mainland Sux- Suxty...........Don't forget your roots If 666 is the devils number, then would the square root of 666 be the root of all evil? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,868 Report post Posted March 2, 2020 What an absolute disgrace at Riccarton this week. Nine noms for a $12,000 open 1,400m; six rated 85 and above, the top rated horse 92. For $12,000!! The industry and Riccarton should be ashamed of themselves. The Nathans last week managed two over 80 and a top rating of 83. Most CD meetings send $30,000 and $35,000 races around with 6 or 7 runners. The stakes allocation is just totally wrong. At the same time you must question some trainers. In recent weeks Riccarton has struggled to get six starters in some $35,000 races. What a strange old industry we run. I'm not sure how Rita and Winston plan to fix any of these obvious problems. These sorts of things will still be managed by NZTR; if "managed" is the right word. arjay, Leggy, dock leaf and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,868 Report post Posted March 2, 2020 It has just occurred to me that the highest rated horse in that $12,000 race at Riccarton rates higher than anything in the Auckland Cup, except the Pakenham Cup winner. In fact, win on thursday and that top rater will rate higher than the NZ Cup and Wgtn Cup winners. Could we have the slightly unusual situation where a $12,000 race is promoted to group status the following year. I can't imagine that has happened before. Stranger things have happened I suppose. Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,551 Report post Posted March 2, 2020 That just illustrates the anomalies that keep coming up with the flawed application of the ratings system; it can work well overseas but our interpretation is wrong. Don't be too critical of trainers, WD , many feel that their horses are unsuited - for whatever reason - to the prevailing conditions/class/distance on offer...it's not just a matter of going ' yippee, a meeting right here, let's line up the lot' ... We're Doomed and Huey 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
We're Doomed 4,868 Report post Posted March 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Pam Robson said: That just illustrates the anomalies that keep coming up with the flawed application of the ratings system; it can work well overseas but our interpretation is wrong. Don't be too critical of trainers, WD , many feel that their horses are unsuited - for whatever reason - to the prevailing conditions/class/distance on offer...it's not just a matter of going ' yippee, a meeting right here, let's line up the lot' ... I do agree Pam. Often it is the right race, in the right place, at the right time that gets the good field. It often has nothing to do with the stake on offer. And for this reason a lot of stake money is wasted and at other times it is quite inadequate. There does need to be a better balance. But it is not something anyone seems to be doing anything about and I have never seen it mentioned in any of this rita stuff or in any of NZTR's submissions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Robson 1,551 Report post Posted March 2, 2020 No, it isn't Rita's mandate, it's NZTR stuff and nothing is likely to change there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...