RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Charlie Bukowski

Do we need a 2 Tier System of Thoroughbred Racing

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2 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Melody Belle not getting a penalty for winning a G1 is absolutely fine “if” she’s only running up to the mark she’s already on, arguably she could win a G1 in NZ and be rated downward 

The real problem with MB winning penalty free is that the points differential SHRINKS  between MB and the beaten brigade and when those horses revert back to hcp racing they have no show.While there must be some penalty , giving more points to 2nd or 3rd place runners is wrong, not knowing the likely points/ max points b4 the race is wrong.

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Turny Tom talks about the two tier racing between the North and The South.

I note that they have a $35,000 open handicap at Wingatui where seven of the entrants are rated at 87 or better.

They have a $50,000 open handicap at Ellerslie where the highest rated entrant is on 83!!!

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5 hours ago, Tauhei Notts said:

I looked further.

They put up $22,500 for a R65 race at Wingatui and got 26 entries.

Ellerslie put up $50,000 for a R65 race and guess how many entries they got?

Try. 

Get this.

Seven!

And two of those seven nominated for two races, so possibly only five starters. Of course I'm sure some other trainers who had no intention of starting will see such a pathetic field and decide they might as well line up.

It does show that the stake has only a minimal effect on the size and quality of the field. Imagine what a $50,000 rating 65 1,400m would attract in the South.

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6 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

And two of those seven nominated for two races, so possibly only five starters. Of course I'm sure some other trainers who had no intention of starting will see such a pathetic field and decide they might as well line up.

It does show that the stake has only a minimal effect on the size and quality of the field. Imagine what a $50,000 rating 65 1,400m would attract in the South.

And one is a 22 start 6yo mdn!

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10 minutes ago, Huey said:

Managing decline is working particularly well. 4 horses initially  nominated for a mdn 1200 at Awapuni, now there is 12.

David Hayes got a runner in , cannot be the David Hayes . It is OZ bred , by Patinack Farm ( they let rip and fizzled like a firework on a rainy night ) . 7 year old maiden mare . Maybe Hayes has given her time , heading to Spring Melbourne .

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Interesting that they ended up with 12 for the race with 7 noms, so they came out of the woodwork. But the 65 1,600m ended up with only 8 acceptors; compared with Wingatui where 12 horses were balloted and eliminated in the 65 1,600m. 

Interesting too that the two open races at Wingatui both ended up with 8 horses rated 80 or higher and top weights at 96 and 94. Compared to the Nathans with two over 80 and a top weight of 83. Even the rating 82 stayers at Wingatui did better than that with three over 80 and a top rating of 84. So does that mean SI horses are really good, or unfairly treated in the handicaps? Serious question.

Even the fillies races are interesting. Smallish field at Ellerslie; three over 70 and a top rating of 75. Capacity field at Wingatui; four over 70 and a top rating of 78. How exactly can the Auckland race be group 3 and Wingatui only listed?

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4 hours ago, poundforpound said:

A win a Wyndham or Reefton is the same as a win at Trentham or Ellerslie according to the morons in PETONE ......a sad joke really 

A win in the South Island is always betterer than a win in the non-Mainland

Sux- Suxty...........Don't forget your roots

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7 minutes ago, Cubes said:

A win in the South Island is always betterer than a win in the non-Mainland

Sux- Suxty...........Don't forget your roots

We are getting to the stage where SI racing is much more attractive than many northern meetings, especially the CD. Lots of small fields this week at Hastings and Manawatu. I just hope Otago makes some effort this weekend to attract the public to Wingatui. I suspect these days the clubs don't make much effort given the funding model.

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20 minutes ago, Cubes said:

A win in the South Island is always betterer than a win in the non-Mainland

Sux- Suxty...........Don't forget your roots

He's had so many roots you could hardly expect him to remember many of them Cubes.

 

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Thats why more and more better performed South Island horses are going overseas. In recent times we have sold Chuck A Luck, Savvy Lad, Cadman,  Czechoslovakia and another 3 year old being vetted this morning. 

But Patrick Erin has returned

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What an absolute disgrace at Riccarton this week. Nine noms for a $12,000 open 1,400m; six rated 85 and above, the top rated horse 92. For $12,000!! The industry and Riccarton should be ashamed of themselves. The Nathans last week managed two over 80 and a top rating of 83. Most CD meetings send $30,000 and $35,000 races around with 6 or 7 runners.

The stakes allocation is just totally wrong.

At the same time you must question some trainers. In recent weeks Riccarton has struggled to get six starters in some $35,000 races.

What a strange old industry we run. I'm not sure how Rita and Winston plan to fix any of these obvious problems. These sorts of things will still be managed by NZTR; if "managed" is the right word.

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It has just occurred to me that the highest rated horse in that $12,000 race at Riccarton rates higher than anything in the Auckland Cup, except the Pakenham Cup winner. In fact, win on thursday and that top rater will rate higher than the NZ Cup and Wgtn Cup winners.  Could we have the slightly unusual situation where a $12,000 race is promoted to group status the following year. I can't imagine that has happened before.  Stranger things have happened I suppose.

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That just illustrates the anomalies that keep coming up with the flawed application of the ratings system;  it can work well overseas but our interpretation is wrong.

Don't be too critical of trainers,  WD , many feel that their horses are unsuited - for whatever reason - to the prevailing conditions/class/distance on offer...it's not just a matter of going ' yippee, a meeting right here,  let's line up the lot' ...

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2 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

That just illustrates the anomalies that keep coming up with the flawed application of the ratings system;  it can work well overseas but our interpretation is wrong.

Don't be too critical of trainers,  WD , many feel that their horses are unsuited - for whatever reason - to the prevailing conditions/class/distance on offer...it's not just a matter of going ' yippee, a meeting right here,  let's line up the lot' ...

I do agree Pam. Often it is the right race, in the right place, at the right time that gets the good field. It often has nothing to do with the stake on offer. And for this reason a lot of stake money is wasted and at other times it is quite inadequate. There does need to be a better balance. But it is not something anyone seems to be doing anything about  and I have never seen it mentioned in any of this rita stuff or in any of NZTR's submissions.

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