arjay

Hawkes Bay fields

48 posts in this topic

Hawkes Bay fields today, Just what is going on. Waikato trainers 37 runners, central districts 24 runners, scratchings 20. And that is all there is on a dead 4 rating. So without Waikato input no races? Thoughts?

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One nine horse field, the biggest field of the day.  Four  races with less than 8 starters.

They continue to run North Island meetings with tiny fields, often for big stakes, while South Island horses can't get a start and are balloted and eliminated every week, even in $10,000 races.. We saw a desperate maiden start in an open race at Riccarton  last week as there is only one maiden race in Canterbury for seven weeks.

As racing these days is almost exclusively an off course betting option, why are the races not run where the horses are? And it is cheaper to provide product in the South.

And has anyone noticed that the small fields are almost invariably at the favoured tracks. The better fields are usually at those "unnecessary" tracks earmarked for closure as quickly as possible.

And this is all managed by NZTR who expect people to take notice of their rita submission listed elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, We're Doomed said:

One nine horse field, the biggest field of the day.  Four  races with less than 8 starters.

They continue to run North Island meetings with tiny fields, often for big stakes, while South Island horses can't get a start and are balloted and eliminated every week, even in $10,000 races.. We saw a desperate maiden start in an open race at Riccarton  last week as there is only one maiden race in Canterbury for seven weeks.

As racing these days is almost exclusively an off course betting option, why are the races not run where the horses are? And it is cheaper to provide product in the South.

And has anyone noticed that the small fields are almost invariably at the favoured tracks. The better fields are usually at those "unnecessary" tracks earmarked for closure as quickly as possible.

And this is all managed by NZTR who expect people to take notice of their rita submission listed elsewhere.

Exactly WD , what a waste of a meeting today, no reason why it couldn't have been held at a venue that has had racing taken off it. It defies belief the appalling decision making, but no one listens to any common sense as they have their own version of it. As an aside how boring is racing becoming with these poorly supported meetings at favoured tracks , it isn't good for turnover or general interest in the sport.

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15 minutes ago, Huey said:

Exactly WD , what a waste of a meeting today, no reason why it couldn't have been held at a venue that has had racing taken off it. It defies belief the appalling decision making, but no one listens to any common sense as they have their own version of it. As an aside how boring is racing becoming with these poorly supported meetings at favoured tracks , it isn't good for turnover or general interest in the sport.

Very true. Someone made a comment on another thread that Messara's ideas should work here as what works in Aussie should work here. What people fail to realise is that the metropolitan clubs in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane lead the way, our major clubs show no leadership at all and invariably attract small fields even for big stakes; just look at Trentham and Riccarton last weekend. Taranaki only had six noms for their group 3 race this weekend.

NZ racing can best be compared to South Australia, which is struggling like us with no Govt support. We should be modelling ourselves on Queensland which is going ahead in leaps and bounds these days and has a similar population to NZ.

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The real problem is that we are racing with horses foaled 3-5 years ago when there were just enough to support the current races at the levels that they are. Any race with less than 8 runners depreciates betting. It's a vicious cycle. So if we have had a 10-14% decrease in mares being served recently, in 3-5 years time we are going to be what is happening now less 10-14%, Big trouble on the horizon. All well and good selling the racetracks...the clubs should still  exist and they should still  have the opportunity to run race days but at another track. 

So we have a conundrum....a question should be asked but hasn't  and that is when a race track is closed, does the club still get the right to hold their race day?

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9 hours ago, Huey said:

Exactly WD , what a waste of a meeting today, no reason why it couldn't have been held at a venue that has had racing taken off it. It defies belief the appalling decision making, but no one listens to any common sense as they have their own version of it. As an aside how boring is racing becoming with these poorly supported meetings at favoured tracks , it isn't good for turnover or general interest in the sport.

You seem to be saying the meeting should have been moved down our way once scratchings were known , I suspect the logistics of that would be a little difficult .

Clearly at the time dates were set nobody thought trainers would rather sit in the sun downing a few stein lagers  at karaka than race horses or at least organize the racing their horses , perhaps the planners will take that into account next time around .

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7 minutes ago, tripple alliance said:

You seem to be saying the meeting should have been moved down our way once scratchings were known , I suspect the logistics of that would be a little difficult .

Clearly at the time dates were set nobody thought trainers would rather sit in the sun downing a few stein lagers  at karaka than race horses or at least organize the racing their horses , perhaps the planners will take that into account next time around .

No not moved I understand that doesn't work , but the dates can certainly be better done, this isn't a one off its happening all the time and as WD points out it seems to be happening at a lot of the favoured clubs. Surely the dates go where the horses are and not the other way around.

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54 minutes ago, Berri said:

The real problem is that we are racing with horses foaled 3-5 years ago when there were just enough to support the current races at the levels that they are. Any race with less than 8 runners depreciates betting. It's a vicious cycle. So if we have had a 10-14% decrease in mares being served recently, in 3-5 years time we are going to be what is happening now less 10-14%, Big trouble on the horizon. All well and good selling the racetracks...the clubs should still  exist and they should still  have the opportunity to run race days but at another track. 

So we have a conundrum....a question should be asked but hasn't  and that is when a race track is closed, does the club still get the right to hold their race day?

If thats the case why are decisions to race in smaller fields being made at certain clubs and other clubs like many in the South Island not even allowed to split races with ballots? The owners and trainers are talking with their horses as to where they want to race , but the powers that be aren't or won't listen.

It's not even a secret anymore , the rules only apply to a club depending on who you are.

The sport is becoming a characterless homogenised  version of what it once was, I don't believe I'm the only one that barely tunes into racing in NZ anymore and if I'm an example of the rest of racing followers/fandom the sport is in big big trouble in the future . It can't just survive off a once a year party and rose tinted interviews at Karaka with a chosen few, the party only lasts so long this one will be no different.

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1 hour ago, Berri said:

 

So we have a conundrum....a question should be asked but hasn't  and that is when a race track is closed, does the club still get the right to hold their race day?

Short answer - yes, they do.

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1 minute ago, Pam Robson said:

Short answer - yes, they do.

They have the option of holding it somewhere else. That just makes everything better taking it away from the local community.

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1 hour ago, Berri said:

 

So we have a conundrum....a question should be asked but hasn't  and that is when a race track is closed, does the club still get the right to hold their race day?

I don't think you will have to worry too much Berri, a lot of them won't bother. We no longer have Nelson, Westport, Geraldine, Hororata racing anywhere. Ashhurst don't seem to bother anymore. I'm sure there are many others. I don't think any clubs out on a limb would bother. The likes of Marlborough are hardly going to get the enthusiasm up to race at Riccarton or Trentham.

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20 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

I don't think you will have to worry too much Berri, a lot of them won't bother. We no longer have Nelson, Westport, Geraldine, Hororata racing anywhere. Ashhurst don't seem to bother anymore. I'm sure there are many others. I don't think any clubs out on a limb would bother. The likes of Marlborough are hardly going to get the enthusiasm up to race at Riccarton or Trentham.

Westland raced - quite satisfactorily I believe  - at Omoto....but the weather played a big part in the day going well.

With bad weather, there is no way the Greymouth track would have sustained 3 racedays,  and Westland would have taken a hiding.  Given that very possible scenario in tbe future,  I couldn't see Westland bothering to go elsewhere either.

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9 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

Westland raced - quite satisfactorily I believe  - at Omoto....but the weather played a big part in the day going well.

With bad weather, there is no way the Greymouth track would have sustained 3 racedays,  and Westland would have taken a hiding.  Given that very possible scenario in tbe future,  I couldn't see Westland bothering to go elsewhere either.

Hopefully Kumara bring home the bacon next year , Omoto Reefton  Kumara Omoto (Westland) as planned this year perfect imho .I think a few would turn up if Westland raced at Kumara as an alternative , it was in book as that this year to start with  .

Another good run by your filly the other day Pam,  how's old Nathan Detroit ? 

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2 hours ago, tripple alliance said:

You seem to be saying the meeting should have been moved down our way once scratchings were known , I suspect the logistics of that would be a little difficult .

Clearly at the time dates were set nobody thought trainers would rather sit in the sun downing a few stein lagers  at karaka than race horses or at least organize the racing their horses , perhaps the planners will take that into account next time around .

Doubt it.

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36 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Hopefully Kumara bring home the bacon next year , Omoto Reefton  Kumara Omoto (Westland) as planned this year perfect imho .I think a few would turn up if Westland raced at Kumara as an alternative , it was in book as that this year to start with  .

Another good run by your filly the other day Pam,  how's old Nathan Detroit ? 

Westland has raced before at Kumara,  it was not a success and the vote was unanimous NOT to go there again. 

The unique nature of Kumara becomes not unique if repeated.

The wee mare tried hard, yes,  she found the going too much unfortunately,  so is having a short freshener.  Nathan is gearing up with enthusiasm,  he will resume next week at Riccarton all going well.

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1 hour ago, We're Doomed said:

I don't think you will have to worry too much Berri, a lot of them won't bother. We no longer have Nelson, Westport, Geraldine, Hororata racing anywhere. Ashhurst don't seem to bother anymore. I'm sure there are many others. I don't think any clubs out on a limb would bother. The likes of Marlborough are hardly going to get the enthusiasm up to race at Riccarton or Trentham.

Just a little correction - Hororata does race,  at Riccarton - and has done so for many years.

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24 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

Just a little correction - Hororata does race,  at Riccarton - and has done so for many years.

Thanks for that Pam. I thought it was just the CJC making a token effort and calling a race the Hororata Cup. A bit the same with the Amberley Cup. I wasn't sure whether the original clubs actually still ran the whole meeting.

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Hororata not listed as a club on NZTR although CJC mention a Hororata day in their listing with a special membership for Hororata and Rangiora.

Feilding is listed as a seperate club racing at Awapuni.

When the future venue plan is settled the clubs running them should be matched to the venue and known by that name.

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I stand to be corrected here -  but when the 'cluster'  system came into being, the associated clubs were absorbed into '  Canterbury Racing '   and became 'provincial' members of the CJC...as I understand it. 

I have - or did have -  a provincial membership as a result of being a member of the former Riccarton Turf club....so, that may explain why those clubs do not appear on NZTR lists as individual clubs.

The North Canterbury club still has its own identity.

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They seem to have a race meeting coming up:

17. Saturday21March2020RICCARTON PARK – HORORATA NoonValachi Downs SI Thoroughbred Breeders Stakes (Gr 3) Seaton Family Memorial Hororata Gold Cup

And their own committee according to the CJC 2019 Annual Report:

WARD COMMITTEES

AmberleyHA Fitzsimmons (Chair), Miss AM Baxter, MJ Douglas, JC Douglas-Clifford, JOH Freeth, A Gould, EH Greenwood, J Greenwood, DA Hutton, NA Macfarlane, MJ Manion, N McGirr, WWD McRae, P Moffat, Mrs L Mulligan, Mrs DIC Rutherford, WH Rutherford, JBL Savill, SD Thomas, and GPF Thompson.

Hororata DJ Stewart (Chair), P Anderson, D Arthur, RL Bennetts, TRD Bennetts, Mrs D Chesmar, MG Chesmar, G Dawson, G Hatton, LN Hewitt, R Ireland, MMcCarthy, BD Mitchell, R Pankhurst, D Reardon, P Rich, Mrs L Seaton, Mrs M Seaton, J Stewart and DG Watson.

North CanterburyMs WM Wakefield (Chair), JC Blackadder, KW Brookfield, MW Donald, GH Fulton, Ms S Haisma, SJ Hewitt, Ms RL Mauger, Mrs VL Parrott, Miss AL Pascoe, Ms G Price, ML Price, Miss TJ Richards, CA Rowe, NF Tuttle, and Miss MR Whitham.

Riccarton TurfGB Lloyd (Chair), K Ballantyne, C Bray, Mrs D Kingsland, PD Lund, KJ McCashin, W McFelin, Ms B Moore, Mrs L Mulligan, Mrs AM Newman, BF O’Dea, JS Poulter, KW Prendergast, GJ Roll, G Sayer, Mrs WL Shaw, G Shearman, MJ Skelton, Mrs DM Ward and Mrs A Wood.

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1 hour ago, Leggy said:

They seem to have a race meeting coming up:

17. Saturday21March2020RICCARTON PARK – HORORATA NoonValachi Downs SI Thoroughbred Breeders Stakes (Gr 3) Seaton Family Memorial Hororata Gold Cup

And their own committee according to the CJC 2019 Annual Report:

WARD COMMITTEES

AmberleyHA Fitzsimmons (Chair), Miss AM Baxter, MJ Douglas, JC Douglas-Clifford, JOH Freeth, A Gould, EH Greenwood, J Greenwood, DA Hutton, NA Macfarlane, MJ Manion, N McGirr, WWD McRae, P Moffat, Mrs L Mulligan, Mrs DIC Rutherford, WH Rutherford, JBL Savill, SD Thomas, and GPF Thompson.

Hororata DJ Stewart (Chair), P Anderson, D Arthur, RL Bennetts, TRD Bennetts, Mrs D Chesmar, MG Chesmar, G Dawson, G Hatton, LN Hewitt, R Ireland, MMcCarthy, BD Mitchell, R Pankhurst, D Reardon, P Rich, Mrs L Seaton, Mrs M Seaton, J Stewart and DG Watson.

North CanterburyMs WM Wakefield (Chair), JC Blackadder, KW Brookfield, MW Donald, GH Fulton, Ms S Haisma, SJ Hewitt, Ms RL Mauger, Mrs VL Parrott, Miss AL Pascoe, Ms G Price, ML Price, Miss TJ Richards, CA Rowe, NF Tuttle, and Miss MR Whitham.

Riccarton TurfGB Lloyd (Chair), K Ballantyne, C Bray, Mrs D Kingsland, PD Lund, KJ McCashin, W McFelin, Ms B Moore, Mrs L Mulligan, Mrs AM Newman, BF O’Dea, JS Poulter, KW Prendergast, GJ Roll, G Sayer, Mrs WL Shaw, G Shearman, MJ Skelton, Mrs DM Ward and Mrs A Wood.

The SI Breeders Stakes of course was never a Hororata race, which is what made me think they just made a token effort and called a race the Hororata Cup. The Breeders stakes was originally a Geraldine race which the CJC inherited, just like the Canterbury Belle Stakes which also came from Geraldine, and just like the Timaru Stakes which was originally a Timaru race.. They have picked up a lot of races off other clubs over the years. The two Valachi races at Riccarton are fairly interchangeable as far as their origins go, so it may be the one at Cup Week that came from Geraldine, but certainly neither of them came from Hororata..

I might be totally wrong, but I do seem to recall that the other unique Hororata race, when they did used to hold a stand alone meeting at Riccarton, was a 2yo fillies race, which I don't think is run anymore

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5 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

Just a little correction - Hororata does race,  at Riccarton - and has done so for many years.

since at least 1966 I reckon. Stand to be corrected mind you

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21 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

One nine horse field, the biggest field of the day.  Four  races with less than 8 starters.

They continue to run North Island meetings with tiny fields, often for big stakes, while South Island horses can't get a start and are balloted and eliminated every week, even in $10,000 races.. We saw a desperate maiden start in an open race at Riccarton  last week as there is only one maiden race in Canterbury for seven weeks.

As racing these days is almost exclusively an off course betting option, why are the races not run where the horses are? And it is cheaper to provide product in the South.

And has anyone noticed that the small fields are almost invariably at the favoured tracks. The better fields are usually at those "unnecessary" tracks earmarked for closure as quickly as possible.

And this is all managed by NZTR who expect people to take notice of their rita submission listed elsewhere.

No maiden races for 7 weeks is a disgrace. The owners and trainers have a right to be totally pissed off. No one want's to see a 10 race maiden card, but Hawkes Bay meet would not attract a bet of mine either. Canterbury  clubs need to get an act together urgently, support each other, surely it cannot be to difficult?

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