puha

Are the Whip rules working

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, puha said:

With two group races being won yesterday by jockeys flouting the whip rules and copping suspensions is it unfair on the beaten horses and connections that have adhered to the whip restrictions?

Whip use is a blight on the industry , these jocks time and again are either lacking composure getting white line fever or don't give a shit . It's one or other . Ramp up the fines , then ramp them up again . These whip happy jocks will soon get the message or get a new job not beating animals hopefully .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’t understand why NZTR doesn’t ban them 

Jockeys should be allowed to carry them but only for safety and guidance and they can’t rotate them which basically means an end to hitting behind the saddle 

Mind you such changes would require vision and an understanding of animal welfare .. and we’re dealing with NZTR here 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, poundforpound said:

I can’t understand why NZTR doesn’t ban them 

Jockeys should be allowed to carry them but only for safety and guidance and they can’t rotate them which basically means an end to hitting behind the saddle 

Mind you such changes would require vision and an understanding of animal welfare .. and we’re dealing with NZTR here 

Completely agree that they should be allowed to carry them as you say. Certainly, that they may not rotate them and I'd say not use them for urging purposes with their whip hand off the reins. They should be allowed to change them from one hand to the other. Why NZTR still haven't fixed this is beyond me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Completely agree that they should be allowed to carry them as you say. Certainly, that they may not rotate them and I'd say not use them for urging purposes with their whip hand off the reins. They should be allowed to change them from one hand to the other. Why NZTR still haven't fixed this is beyond me.

Norway have small whips for 2 year old races and nothing after that . Surely NZTR should start educating the youngsters with a hands and heels series for them . Maybe get CWJ to do a tour giving some guidence to youngsters on how to get a horse to run without belting daylights out of it . 

All this shit whips don't hurt , now I've never been lucky enough to have a horse with say John Gosden so never been privy to his riding instructions but I've got an idea a 2 or 3 year old on debut from  his yard would be something like listen up jockey one crack to let the horse know it's there to do a job if need be then hands and heels as he wants it not to have bad experience . But whip don't hurt ? 

Even the best in world succumb to it , the old money signs clicking over , Soumillon on Thunder Snow in 2018 BC Classic was sickening , but yet in France he's on 5 count and UK and Ireland on a seven and think he's pretty good on the ban totals. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with all above.   I can recall the late Dave Kerr , years ago,  insisting that Damien Browne be his rider of choice whenever possible because he was such a kind and balanced rider, and used the whip very sparingly.

Dave was old school to a tee - but said to me,  how the hell do you expect a horse to give its guts for you when you belt it for doing so ?

I can just imagine the furore if the whip was banned altogether [ although it will have to come, no doubt about it ].     How would it work if the allowable amount of strikes was reduced dramatically to a figure overall,  just to 'lead' those naysayers to accept the process more gradually ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The current usage of whips need to be banned. Animal welfare is here to stay. NZTR needs to start thinking of the future. Ban the use of whips for 2yo racing as a start. That means they don't become whip educated. Then ban current whip use in all 3yo races the following year and whenever a three year old is in any race from then on, no current whip usage allowed on any of the other contestants. After 5 years you have no current whip use. Whips should be renamed and only carried as a prompt or for steerage management issues.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are two ways to stop whip use. Firstly, NZTR could show true leadership ( read “balls”) by banning them altogether. It would create a chain reaction across the Tasman and beyond. Or, secondly, they could bring in a new rule that says fines will be increased by X% and any guilty parties who finish in a stakes winning position will have their horse immediately disqualified from the race. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can never get my head around the whip doesn't hurt them argument  If it doesn't hurt them then why hit them?

People are much more aware of the whipping these days, they notice a horse being flogged. In my early day's the like's of Bill Skelton were praised for their ability with the whip in a close finish. Watching international racing it becomes obvious the best jockey's seem to use the whip the least.

Whips will be banned sooner or later that is certain NZ may as well get some kudo's for being proactive rather than being forced into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think trackside presenters and racing journos need to get some backbone and call it out .A horse at Reefton got a belting other week and blah blah blah they just  ignore it, stipes didn't miss it , also they ignored the beautiful low smooth hands heels drive by second jock a young apprentice.  Carrot and stick reward the excellence too . They need to call it out , people need to email RIU if it's missed by stipes  and commentators need to call out whip use as whip use not persuader or any other nickname.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

I think trackside presenters and racing journos need to get some backbone and call it out .A horse at Reefton got a belting other week and blah blah blah they just  ignore it, stipes didn't miss it , also they ignored the beautiful low smooth hands heels drive by second jock a young apprentice.  Carrot and stick reward the excellence too . They need to call it out , people need to email RIU if it's missed by stipes  and commentators need to call out whip use as whip use not persuader or any other nickname.  

 

What would the RIU know ? !!

If you mean the raceday stewards, I get that, but most of the RIU investigating team are woefully inept when it comes to racing matters and they really don’t know anything about horses and / or racing 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, poundforpound said:

What would the RIU know ? !!

If you mean the raceday stewards, I get that, but most of the RIU investigating team are woefully inept when it comes to racing matters and they really don’t know anything about horses and / or racing 

To be fair to Mike Godber I emailed him a few years back about one of the worse cases of whip abuse I'd ever seen , in fact the worse case I'd seen to think of it . Iam not going to name horse or jockey but race is  still on nztr website I think . I got a few others not into racing to view it and they immediately pointed out the disgusting treatment , I then discussed it with racing mates who agreed . Nothing went in stipes .He replied in agreement with me , he admitted it should have been in stipes report and stated he would deal with jockey by way of education , Noel Harris I recall was name he mentioned . I can double check race is still on there and  PM  you it but it was a while ago and jock improved so in past , I just use to to defend RIU in that particular case  .Trackside totally ignored it , and post race it was ignored . It was utterly bizarre, it was like the effing twilight zone or something  . So to be fair to Mike Godber , 3 times I've emailed him and twice we agreed once we didn't and but  that's ok  he's got to fight his corner  . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, poundforpound said:

What would the RIU know ? !!

If you mean the raceday stewards, I get that, but most of the RIU investigating team are woefully inept when it comes to racing matters and they really don’t know anything about horses and / or racing 

The race is still on there but don't know if it's me but the buffering on NZTR replys would drive most sane people to put a fist through the screen .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does NZTR dilly dally around on the whip issue? Surely they could set the world on fire by banning whips? Show leadership etc. it won’t make any difference to NZ racing will it - other than chalk up at least one good move that will have the World of Racing sit up and follow little ole NZ’s lead. The Trainer’s lobby can’t be so strong that they might offer any meaningful objection. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whipping behind the saddle should be banned now. The winning jockeys who copped $1000 fines should also be stood down for say a minimum 2 week period. The severe whipping of horses is a blight on the industry and is tantamount to the canning of students at schools years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, WOODBINE said:

Whipping behind the saddle should be banned now. The winning jockeys who copped $1000 fines should also be stood down for say a minimum 2 week period. The severe whipping of horses is a blight on the industry and is tantamount to the canning of students at schools years ago.

Actually Woodbine, I think caning students worked pretty bloody well in a lot of cases at least in my day (early 60s) until I realised I could say 'NO' when the headmaster told me to bend over. A horse doesn't have that option. The whip certainly has to go at some point or only used on the shoulder with both hands remaining on the reins. However it happens, riding styles must then change. While I think there are several good judges of pace amongst our jockeys, their riding styles are close to atrocious. They use the stick because they are riding too short to kick with just two toes in the stirrups and they can't kick because their knees are waving in the breeze and unless your knees are stable you cannot move your lower leg. Gripping with the knees was the first thing we learnt a million years ago riding bareback. The pendulum will swing back at some point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watched that Weigh In the other day , what an absolute joke . No mention at all of whip usage that I heard. It's average . How can you review both those races with multiple whip bans and make no mention of it then maintain any credibility as a reviewer .

Did they not realise the bans , or notice whip use  , if they did call it out as it is . 

They need to start calling it like it is . To not call it out is to condone it .

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Animal Welfare Act 1999 , Maybe someone has already checked if it applies  , hopefully the SPCA have in consultation with racing authorities have gone through whip use and how it is not in contravention of the Act , and what use would cross the line .

I might do some study on it , maybe a section covers it . Maybe it's time for the law to step up in the shape of the SPCA and check  compliance and that overuse does not cross into contravention of the Act . If so minds will very sharply get with the programme .

Maybe when Iam bored and have heap of time on my hands I   could put a horse into training , instruct trainer that in no way I want it whipped, I could name it " iamnevergettingwhipped lad " . Tell the stipes this horse will not be whipped , you might want to note it on the stipes report as such . 

Any number of ways to focus attention on whip abusers bar standing with a placard no one bothers looking at . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read this guys and gals and tell me why the NZTR, RITA and Harness Racing NZ are not on-side.

If I was in charge, this would be at the very top of my "to achieve today" ....... before it's too late.

https://thoroughbredracing.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=8f27b48b2f6f46ee70b93ed7d&id=c4faa767cc&e=4cc1cfdc61

If they cant see the world closing in on us, then none of them should have a job in our once outstanding industry/sport.

Liz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Insider said:

Read this guys and gals and tell me why the NZTR, RITA and Harness Racing NZ are not on-side.

If I was in charge, this would be at the very top of my "to achieve today" ....... before it's too late.

https://thoroughbredracing.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=8f27b48b2f6f46ee70b93ed7d&id=c4faa767cc&e=4cc1cfdc61

If they cant see the world closing in on us, then none of them should have a job in our once outstanding industry/sport.

Liz

More and more highly respected racing people are coming out in favour of a ban on whip use , or severe restrictions . The whip abusers are going to get very lonely .

John Francome very strong in his views that it needs to go , not many better horseman than him .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Race 1 today at Ellerslie. Ryan Elliot on Intrigue lost his whip at the top of the straight and got beaten by Dance Card ,M Dee who had his whip.Intrigue probably wins if Ryan had his whip. Shows the difference of having and not having in a tight finish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, jeepers said:

Race 1 today at Ellerslie. Ryan Elliot on Intrigue lost his whip at the top of the straight and got beaten by Dance Card ,M Dee who had his whip.Intrigue probably wins if Ryan had his whip. Shows the difference of having and not having in a tight finish.

But every other jockey behind first two had a whip and Intrigue beat them . Would they have run faster without the whip ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.