poundforpound

All Stars Mile

34 posts in this topic

So I’ve been asked to vote for Super Seth ( did that ) and it got me thinking 

NZ should have Catalyst, Super Seth and Melody Belle in the field.....that’s a remarkable quarter of the runners.

That tells me we’re doing something right from a horsemen’s perspective, we’re globally competitive in that area, as good as any in the world.....so why is our racing so fucked ?

It can only be one of two, maybe three, things.

The clubs and their tracks 

NZTR and the various codes governance model

The NZRB / RITA and The Racing Act

Any thoughts ?

 

 

 

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The common denominator to all successful racing jurisdictions is robust betting turnover.

NZ's racing for many months of the year is a poor betting product.

And what good racing we do have has been poorly marketed internationally.

NZRB failed miserably in taking advantage of the biggest market, and biggest growth market, in Australia - NZ TAB website banned in Australia, and that includes access to form, and prices. How did they miss that legislation? And then they reputedly spent close to $100mill on an upgrade to a website, which their biggest market cannot access. The failing at NZRB level are nearly criminal.

There has to be a reality check by participants - If you are putting on a show no one wants to bet on, then you have to accept you are going to running sack of kumara's. Wake-up people!

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The problem is people, people, people.

Most of the governing has been executed by people without the necessary skills. The people who are now working on the rule book (the Bill) don't know enough of the future to understand the real mission.  The people of the governing body who should take the industry forward haven't done that correctly. The people running the clubs need to have the skill sets and blueprint to run the show properly. The people who supply the racing content need to sort that out properly (and I'm talking databases and IPS's), and the people supplying the actual bet types need to appeal better than they currently do.

We have everything apart from the right people

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Is to many  betting options a factor? With all these obscure races our TAB have from USA, japan and Singapore,and the like taking a slice of revenue that maybe would be spent on the local product?  Possibly a small amount anyway?  The Wulf, states we have a poor betting product, I have to agree, todays fields at New Plymouth are terrible from a punters perspective. 

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

So I’ve been asked to vote for Super Seth ( did that ) and it got me thinking 

NZ should have Catalyst, Super Seth and Melody Belle in the field.....that’s a remarkable quarter of the runners.

That tells me we’re doing something right from a horsemen’s perspective, we’re globally competitive in that area, as good as any in the world.....so why is our racing so fucked ?

It can only be one of two, maybe three, things.

The clubs and their tracks 

NZTR and the various codes governance model

The NZRB / RITA and The Racing Act

Any thoughts ?

 

 

 

Clearly iam missing something but Super Seth (AUS) is  NZ ?  , raced only  in OZ unless iam having brain fade , dam OZ  bred and raced , trained by Aussie . 

Have not delved the depths of the books on this one but only NZ I see is Dundeal.

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1 hour ago, poundforpound said:

So I’ve been asked to vote for Super Seth ( did that ) and it got me thinking 

NZ should have Catalyst, Super Seth and Melody Belle in the field.....that’s a remarkable quarter of the runners.

That tells me we’re doing something right from a horsemen’s perspective, we’re globally competitive in that area, as good as any in the world.....so why is our racing so fucked ?

It can only be one of two, maybe three, things.

The clubs and their tracks 

NZTR and the various codes governance model

The NZRB / RITA and The Racing Act

Any thoughts ?

 

 

 

I can see some  NZ in ownership group but that's a long bow , OZ kind of claim Rekindling Melbourne Cup win but really it's not in books as an OZ win or a triumph of OZ racing .

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7 minutes ago, Patiti said:

Super Seth by Dundeel so has an NZ connection surely.

A connection yes , Danehill was a US bred so every winner he sired has US connection , Phar Lap British ?

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45 minutes ago, Berri said:

The people who are now working on the rule book (the Bill) don't know enough of the future to understand the real mission. 

You have got to be kidding. Granted the previous NZRB board and its structure passed the incompetence test but the current RITA board look to have all the qualities of a successful transition  body. The bill looks to be progressive and the forward governance structure removes mandatory code accreditation and insists on actual wagering and governance experience.

PS I have met a lot of peps in my day but none have ever been able to say they can tell me the future. If you think you can i suggest you hit the RITA website and apply for the CEO job which becomes vacant in June.

 

Greg

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One thing I don't understand is why they have exacta/duet/% quinella etc in Aus but NOT here? I rarely bet outside W/P as that suits my budget. I find raw quinellas ($6 box 4, $10 box 5) too expensive for my tastes (I am a cautious man). But I would take heaps of the things if I could percentage it....?

And the Duet is a great bet. How many of us might look at say the Wellington Cup and fancy 2 or 3 runners. Yes you can put them in a trifecta of F four but let's be honest - very low hit rate. Easy to get wrong. 

Why aren't our betting products all aligned? They are remarkably lacking in innovation. That partly explains the empty racecourses. 

I just don't understand the general apathy and lack of urgency. 

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2 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

You have got to be kidding. Granted the previous NZRB board and its structure passed the incompetence test but the current RITA board look to have all the qualities of a successful transition  body. The bill looks to be progressive and the forward governance structure removes mandatory code accreditation and insists on actual wagering and governance experience.

PS I have met a lot of peps in my day but none have ever been able to say they can tell me the future. If you think you can i suggest you hit the RITA website and apply for the CEO job which becomes vacant in June.

 

Greg

Greg

If you have very little understanding of blockchain, how can you create legislation that covers this? This proves it

image.png.2aed55ac04dc59238f18ea3ae6492aa4.png

Tokens will replace cash and TAB accounts as we know it. So what are profits? ....the amount of tokens going through a conventional TAB account, when the tokens are part of an external blockchain? Unfortunately most have no understanding of this notion and therefore have no idea on how to legislate for this. And if you think the blockchain is a fad....think again. It's probably the single biggest metamorphic technology change since the introduction of the internet. And if you don't believe me, check this out...

https://s1.q4cdn.com/050606653/files/doc_presentations/2020/Visa-Inc.-To-Acquire-Plaid-Press-Release.pdf?utm_source=Brave+New+Coin+Newsletters&utm_campaign=d3d1531295-BNCDAILY_2020_1_14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d7fa8797a2-d3d1531295-245428021

You might ask why a giant like Visa would do this? Well it's because a Visa card will potentially become obsolete within 10 years. Imagine paying for everything using APP's and virtual currency where the virtual currency (tokens) don't go anywhere near a bank. Visa gets put out of business through this process. So now think TAB's....they're fucked....they just don't yet know it

image.png

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5 hours ago, Red Rum said:

I can see some  NZ in ownership group but that's a long bow , OZ kind of claim Rekindling Melbourne Cup win but really it's not in books as an OZ win or a triumph of OZ racing .

 

5 hours ago, Patiti said:

Super Seth by Dundeel so has an NZ connection surely.

majority owned by Waikato Stud......if he has a good autumn me thinks we will see him in Matamata early August

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5 hours ago, Red Rum said:

I can see some  NZ in ownership group but that's a long bow , OZ kind of claim Rekindling Melbourne Cup win but really it's not in books as an OZ win or a triumph of OZ racing .

Owned by a NZ based syndicate, the majority owner being Waikato Stud 

They had the vision to buy him and syndicate him.....that makes him a subject of NZ in terms of horseman’s input and ownership, and eventually his career as a sire 

Is there a part of that you don’t understand ?

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13 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Owned by a NZ based syndicate, the majority owner being Waikato Stud 

They had the vision to buy him and syndicate him.....that makes him a subject of NZ in terms of horseman’s input and ownership, and eventually his career as a sire 

Is there a part of that you don’t understand ?

Completely understand that thanks , you have also answered the good old racing question right there . Phar Lap was a yank , not Aussie , not NZ , not  a pom a Sherman tank . Good stuff .It's all about who owns the horse . America do very well in the jumps racing in Ireland also via Rich Ricci. 

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4 hours ago, Berri said:

Greg

If you have very little understanding of blockchain, how can you create legislation that covers this? This proves it

image.png.2aed55ac04dc59238f18ea3ae6492aa4.png

Tokens will replace cash and TAB accounts as we know it. So what are profits? ....the amount of tokens going through a conventional TAB account, when the tokens are part of an external blockchain? Unfortunately most have no understanding of this notion and therefore have no idea on how to legislate for this. And if you think the blockchain is a fad....think again. It's probably the single biggest metamorphic technology change since the introduction of the internet. And if you don't believe me, check this out...

https://s1.q4cdn.com/050606653/files/doc_presentations/2020/Visa-Inc.-To-Acquire-Plaid-Press-Release.pdf?utm_source=Brave+New+Coin+Newsletters&utm_campaign=d3d1531295-BNCDAILY_2020_1_14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d7fa8797a2-d3d1531295-245428021

You might ask why a giant like Visa would do this? Well it's because a Visa card will potentially become obsolete within 10 years. Imagine paying for everything using APP's and virtual currency where the virtual currency (tokens) don't go anywhere near a bank. Visa gets put out of business through this process. So now think TAB's....they're fucked....they just don't yet know it

image.png

Haha , i have made quite a considerable amount of money via  Blockchain but you are delusional if you think its the way of the near term future . Best of luck with your CEO application or will it be like your previous ideas for NZRB to follow.

 

Greg

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7 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

You have got to be kidding. Granted the previous NZRB board and its structure passed the incompetence test but the current RITA board look to have all the qualities of a successful transition  body. The bill looks to be progressive and the forward governance structure removes mandatory code accreditation and insists on actual wagering and governance experience.

PS I have met a lot of peps in my day but none have ever been able to say they can tell me the future. If you think you can i suggest you hit the RITA website and apply for the CEO job which becomes vacant in June.

 

Greg

If you are referring to RITA, not TAB, it probably won’t.

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2 hours ago, Red Rum said:

Completely understand that thanks , you have also answered the good old racing question right there . Phar Lap was a yank , not Aussie , not NZ , not  a pom a Sherman tank . Good stuff .It's all about who owns the horse . America do very well in the jumps racing in Ireland also via Rich Ricci. 

Got you now ... so every thoroughbred in the world is Bedouin Arab given that that’s where the original sires came from ... am I reading your constipated mind correctly. ??

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45 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Got you now ... so every thoroughbred in the world is Bedouin Arab given that that’s where the original sires came from ... am I reading your constipated mind correctly. ??

 My mind never constipated,  more of the shits situation me  . The old poms are getting in a sweat over Coolmore dominance in Derby , now your angle re ownership gives Poms an out as Derby dominated by the good old East End fella Mr Tabor   at Coolmore , in fact Poms have Kentucky Derby through him also with Thunder Gulch and a Cox Plate with Adelaide  . In fact It's a Dundeal could be a OZ horse  because they appeared to own him in one of its finest hours on track and stand him at stud  . 

Super Seth iam struggling to see him as a kiwi horse bar the fact some very astute kiwi horse people have ownership of the horse and Dundeal the sire .Winx was by Irish stallion  raced Stateside , NZ dam , owned by Aussies , trained by Kiwi expat . What country did she represent as an industry .Starcraft Aust , NZ , Italian or GB ?

Chechen leader owns some decent horses , North America being a decent current one , so the ownership angle can be twisted around a bit as not much racing in that country worth writing home about .

Don't mean a lot anyway , good on them for having a super horse .

 

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My original comment was about the ability of Kiwi horsemen and their ongoing ability to compete on the global stage..

The acquisition of Super Seth is in my opinion a testament to the skills of those horsemen who had the vision to step up and buy the horse.....now he’s NZ owned I’m saying the horsemen and woman involved, including syndicate investors, should take some credit.

Not worth arguing about though....he’s NZ owned in my eyes and I stand by my original comment that having three contenders in the big Mile is quite remarkable 

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8 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

My original comment was about the ability of Kiwi horsemen and their ongoing ability to compete on the global stage..

The acquisition of Super Seth is in my opinion a testament to the skills of those horsemen who had the vision to step up and buy the horse.....now he’s NZ owned I’m saying the horsemen and woman involved, including syndicate investors, should take some credit.

Not worth arguing about though....he’s NZ owned in my eyes and I stand by my original comment that having three contenders in the big Mile is quite remarkable 

Agree P4P re the ability to select a horse  , not arguing just a discussion . Good luck to connections of all three . The skills of trainers , stud masters and ability to  raise horses here  never in doubt .

Anyway get on the bumper horse High Bridge tomorrow at 54kgs over 2500 at Flemington .

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14 hours ago, JJ Flash said:

Haha , i have made quite a considerable amount of money via  Blockchain but you are delusional if you think its the way of the near term future . Best of luck with your CEO application or will it be like your previous ideas for NZRB to follow.

 

Greg

Shows how little you know. The Bill is meant to be a pathway into the future. I didn't say anything about the near term but a proper betting solution will be with us within 2 years. Then the shit will hit the fan and we'll be doing all of this yet again.

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One thing that stands out as being wrong is that returns to punters have gone down across the board ,tab bets and bookies  hence punters like dr nick leaving the building just like elvis.The introduction of partial payouts means that we win less for the same outlay on tote bets, bookies % 's staying above 120% means less return for fixed odds punters both compared to what we used to get.It is not as attractive as it once was , turnover is shrinking and added to that is the huge number employed on huge salaries to run the sinking ship come hell or high water, so they must cut overheads just to stay where they are profit wise before they can think of prizemoney or track upgrades etc

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Re NZ or USA or UK or AUS bred/owned or whatever. What’s the point of debating it? Melody Belle is by Commands isn’t she? A Sire based in Aust - where she was conceived. Does that make her AUST? How many “NZ Breds” are there by Fastnet Rock and other Sires who have never set foot in NZ. So what does that make Super Seth? By the time he settles in at Stud in NZ, all his progeny will be sired in NZ and I’d presume a few will be born in Oz. What will that make the latter born? NZ or Aus bred? I’m sure the kiwis will claim them and so will the Aussies ! 

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12 minutes ago, Trump said:

Re NZ or USA or UK or AUS bred/owned or whatever. What’s the point of debating it? Melody Belle is by Commands isn’t she? A Sire based in Aust - where she was conceived. Does that make her AUST? How many “NZ Breds” are there by Fastnet Rock and other Sires who have never set foot in NZ. So what does that make Super Seth? By the time he settles in at Stud in NZ, all his progeny will be sired in NZ and I’d presume a few will be born in Oz. What will that make the latter born? NZ or Aus bred? I’m sure the kiwis will claim them and so will the Aussies ! 

That's my point , nowdays any angle can be used to claim a horse to be a plus for any major racing nation . Just find an angle and play it up. Winx showcases the testing of a stallions  toughness and durability via her stallion footing it on the dirt in US so a plus for US racing , and the medication they use ?  . Any number of angles however thin can be made .

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