RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
tim vince

Should

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11 minutes ago, tim vince said:

A low stake club like Cambridge h have 2 races totalling 80k or would they be better having say a 2k top up on 40 races.

The same question has been posed for decades, share it around or put up the big money for the top liners. Be interesting to know if they were running for 20K whether the top liners would turn up. 

Greg

 

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35 minutes ago, tim vince said:

maybe Cambridge big go is the jewels and the rest  of the time support the smaller guys.

Fair enough IF and its a big IF you have a handicapping system that differentiates between premiere meeting at AP and the provincials at Cambridge and the like. Until that happens you guys up there are in no mans land most of the time re placement

 

Greg

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Chicken or egg?

Perhaps the trotting race could be scrubbed as they had a group race on the 24th (Flying mile)    The race tomorrow is only a recent addition to the calendar.

 

p.s. Can't scrub the flying mile - history and that - also the only group race I have won :rcf-favorite:

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16 minutes ago, tim vince said:

Exactly Mr flash

Not exactly rocket science and what are the brains trust at HRNZ doing- Zip. Outcome,  owners/trainers keep taking advantage of the way NZ horses are treated by Ozzie handicappers and sell sell sell

Its almost as if the brains trust want the game to wither up your way especially but its only a matter of time before it hits further South if it hasn't already. If you a low 60's rater you are in the worst possible place the way races are programmed at times

 

Greg

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Well I would definately go to watch Oscar and WinterF and the open pacers but wouldn't go to see an ordinary bunch of average horses going around. Whether or not that justufies the large stakes I am not sure but it should boost oncourse attendence by at least 25% - whether these are punters or tyre kickers I don't know

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3 hours ago, tim vince said:

A low stake club like Cambridge h have 2 races totalling 80k or would they be better having say a 2k top up on 40 races.

Because of Cambridge's standing in Harness in the North , any race under $10k is a 'disgrace'.

For many years now it has been a Jewels venue plus had this "group' meeting early in New Year which is part of "summer racing" where extra promotion etc takes place[at a cost] which must give an opportunity to bank a profit ...compared to the usual ho-hum meeting throughout the year.

The owners provide the 'entertainment' [horses] , yet they are seemingly ignored or taken for granted. Ditto some drivers who are expected to travel ,often for little reward.At least Harness mainly has free racing ,as in no nomination or acceptance.

I believe the programming needs more flexibility...that Group 3 Trotting race is basically 3 horses having a trial for Australia...at least 2 of those starting as an afterthought ,while the other 3 are making up numbers . Races like this should 'tentative' . We are encouraged to buy young horses , with the incentive of 'age -group' racing promised but get a 2 yr old trotter and you will find that $10 k races suddenly become $2k non-totes !!!!! ,os scrubbed completely.

Clubs ,to assist betting need to show more flexibility in programming as surely a fulfilled of 14 'slow' horses will encourage betting at this time of year with the festive crowd.

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The 2 year old totters races are not held as tote race TM, simply because trainers won't enter their horses for them out of fear that they will perform below the trainers assessment of their ability and thus loose value as a saleable product. The same can be said of 2 year old pacers, hence no 2 year pacing races except for Alexandra Park 

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I don't think so I thinks it's more that unless u have one in the top 5  or so u are just burning them out for no money. The young ones are very vulnerable .I had one assessed by the top 2 year old trainer in  north and he said decent but not good enough at this stage.i have owned the top 2 year old 2 years in the row quite awhile ago.theyare natural or not. Like putting Ken Rutherford in against the West Indies as a young fella, almost destroyed him.

 

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5 hours ago, eljay said:

You are not an owner then, Spike?

Whether or not I am an owner doesn't matter - I was trying to convey that more people are likely to actually go to the races if there is a horse worthy of seeing in the flesh i.e. Oscar and therefore hopefully more turnover on the tote etc

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15 hours ago, Stables said:

The 2 year old totters races are not held as tote race TM, simply because trainers won't enter their horses for them out of fear that they will perform below the trainers assessment of their ability and thus loose value as a saleable product. The same can be said of 2 year old pacers, hence no 2 year pacing races except for Alexandra Park 

i remember posting a few years ago , 33 2yo pacers had qualified before New Years,  yet they have to wait for Young Gun series in the North and Ashburton( Feb) to get to run.  it requires a progressive programming  schedule to be fair to the owners and 2yo horses of varying abilities. 

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5 hours ago, hsvman said:

Wouldn’t they have been better to combine both days into one big day with full feilds ? Back to back days as the same venue with their main race card only having 7 races ? 

As suggested elsewhere ,the second day was the transferred grass track meeting. 

I still believe the industry needs to be more flexible with its programming and its calendar ,to ensure these are  what is best for the industry both currently and into the future.

All stakeholders need to collaborate .Same with the thoroughbreds.

Meetings and their programmes should be tailored to suit what horses are available at any particular time , .

In the north a shortage of horses is a HUGE issue...breeding numbers ,size of fields ,drop in betting and regular horse sales overseas suggests this will worsen .....quite quickly too I believe.

Clubs need to work together....not many in North so should be simple ,and they need to know what horses available to race.

The calendar at this time should be designed for festive season and holiday makers  etc.

It seems basic to me.

At Cambridge there was ONE nomination for 2 yr old race...also after glut of group racing 6 lining up in $30 k trot...could have been 2.

Maybe they could have had a mares race for example ,with 12 plus starters for $20k .Better for punters ,better for everyone  !

And can't ignore the slower horse...keep them racing . Elite class a thing of past. $8k stakes an insult . But no betting ,no stakes !

Something needs to be done by powers to be.

The historical dates may not be ideal.....CHANGE things !

Dual codes...on grass ....good for this time of year....showcase the HORSE !

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5 hours ago, tim vince said:

There was 5 in the last 2year old race at Auckland 25k.

 

Tho only $20k paid cos of small field !

Plus this part of Young Guns series so basically a sweepstake.

First nomination fee paid as foals then sustaining payments paid each year [or one total payment].

Sweepstakes remain a good way to boost stakes , though another burden on breeder /owner !

Sadly most clubs short on cash and/or ability to build cash reserves to future proof the industry.

Putting what assets they have to work e.g. car parking or food/conventions , or maybe build some apartments !

Alex Park a great asset ....so close to city......great shame if not supported and they forced to move into the sticks !

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Perhaps we are being a bit tough on Cambridge. They have 28 race meetings this season, including 9 over Dec/Jan. Surely such a busy club should have some feature races. The club does work to get sponsors for all these races but doesn't have the same opportunities to make revenue from facilities as Auckland. Many other clubs pay similar stakes - the problem is when horses are handicapped similarly for very different stakes.

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I think the stakes for the 2 open class races at Cambridge are about right.    Personally I believe races with a 40 - 45 rating should only be worth 5 or 6k, with the money saved on them boosting races with ratings above 50.   If you look at USA, Aussie or Canada the stakes for the lower class races are around 4K or below.             The real question however is how to increase income for clubs so they can increase stakes substantially.   This is where people’s thoughts and efforts need to be directed.  

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