RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
scooby3051

What A Shambles

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9 minutes ago, tim vince said:

No sympathy for a MISTAKE??.........???????????

Feel for the starter , no one wants to see someone make balls up with everyone watching  but forgetting to load a horse is a bad error  , it happened within last year  on another course here , it's average.  Honestly I've never ever heard or seen this happen anywhere else ever  . Starter has helpers , surely someone shouts all loaded or similar . Pull tape behind field so all in front of tape . Every horse in front of that tape with someone little on a horse , wearing coloured silks  carrying a whip needs to go in a  gate , blimey honestly a primary kid could shout all in its in no way shape or form difficult .

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2 hours ago, mike28 said:

Any official word about futures bets someone i know had justamaiz hes pretty confident he will be refunded me not so sure

Surely not Mike?  Futures are risky , can be lucrative but we take our chances. I had a $30 k  $10 multi finishing with the Fav in the Auckland Cup two weeks out went lame :rcfe-happy-3: Shit happens one way or another

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To his credit Trevor Harrison has admitted full responsibility for this debacle. He stated that Pinmedown was obscured from his view by the clerk of the courses horse. Fair enough. Most Pins mare are on the small side. He made a genuine mistake. Best to wait for the result of the delayed enquiry instead of lambasting him.

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Everyone makes mistakes and I think everyone should lay off Trevor Harrison. He’s been a great Starter for many years. He admitted he made a Blue so good on him for that. He will not sleep well for a few days. So, how do you stop it from happening again? I’d have a 2IC placed at the back whose job it is to confirm with the Starter that all horses are loaded. It’s then in the Starters hands. Simple. But go easy on him people. 

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2 hours ago, Trump said:

Everyone makes mistakes and I think everyone should lay off Trevor Harrison. He’s been a great Starter for many years. He admitted he made a Blue so good on him for that. He will not sleep well for a few days. So, how do you stop it from happening again? I’d have a 2IC placed at the back whose job it is to confirm with the Starter that all horses are loaded. It’s then in the Starters hands. Simple. But go easy on him people. 

The problem is Trump, that's exactly the protocol in the NZTR Starter's manual. The assistant starter behind the gates is supposed to signal the starter that all horses are loaded before the start is effected. Obviously the race was started without that signal being given.

6.18 Assistant Starter Prior to the Jump

The Assistant Starter shall signal to the Starter that the final runner has been loaded, all gates are closed and a start may be effected.

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And it wasn't a false start according to that manual.

7.1 False Start The Starter may signal a false start where in their opinion runners were not afforded a fair start due to mechanical failure of the barrier stalls, such as gates opening prematurely, slowly, or not at all.

IMO, the race should have proceeded and the affected horse been declared a non- runner.

So, that was a second bad mistake in the incident.

Not the starter's fault but but the hapless judiciary's. Once the false start was wrongly signalled I believe the race should have been voided not restarted. I imagine there's now a good few more punters out there looking for events other than NZ thoroughbred racing to spend their money on.

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Iam sure they are all decent people involved , but decent people make mistakes in every job and have to cop the flak everyday somewhere in NZ , learn  and move on or every mistake is just a pat on back and cuddle with no lessons learnt  . The problem here is not the decency of the people involved  it's the systemic problems at start .

In past year this is the second time a horse left at start .Didn't a Derby runner have a mishap with barrier blanket not put on. In SI didn't whole field go in back to front .

Seems for whatever reason standards are slipping and maybe all start teams need a retrain or refresher . If something basic happens again in short time there is little excuse .

 

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I wonder if in the modern day with technology the could be some sort of small clip on earphone on the riders helmut that beeps or something when they need to pull up, could also be used in emergency situation when a  rider down on the track or any other incident requiring immediate action. 

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29 minutes ago, Chris Wood said:

Agree Leo, genuine mistake, he has put his hands up, move on.

Probably a few new protocols need to be put in place to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

 

Dead right , no one surely saying haul a good guy across the hot coals although that's invariably what management do the world over in most jobs .

Sirens to jockeys always seems iffy , noise of races, concentrating on positioning and trying to keep safe and we asking the jocks to listen for siren , then make split second decision in confusion of big field . Here's something one hundred per cent for sure , the greatest jockey ever L Piggott would never have heard a siren mid race , he couldn't hear winners strapper asking for their standard sling after a race either but that might be have been convenient deafness for Piggott .

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Dollar for every mistake I've  made I would be very rich.not defending  terrible but reminds us we are all human.now if u pushed the red button and let off a nuke but it's a horse race.but  shouldn't someone be checking on starting procedure which apparently has been ignored. Is it part of the riu brief. They check up on trainers jockeys drivers stable inspections do they routinely check that starters are doing the right thing.? Harness are quite good atnspeaking to starters but galloping ????

 

Like an air crash often a failure further down the chain.

 

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4 hours ago, poundforpound said:

I feel a bit sorry for all here, the club, the connections of the scratched runners, punters, but mostly for Gripper 

He’s a good man, and he’s owned this.

I say we should cut him a bit of slack this one time and all move on.

 

Sorry Leo but it's a clear breach of the rules as I'm sure you well know. Good blokes like you and I even are not exempt from those.

BREACHES OF THE RULES
802 (1) A person commits a breach of these Rules who:
(a) acts in contravention of or fails to comply with any provision of these Rules or any Regulations made thereunder, or any policy, notice, direction, instruction, guideline, restriction, requirement or condition given, made or imposed under these Rules;

He is also cited as saying the hood was off the horse. He may have been misquoted but if not, it is a big fib or a specsavers job. That's hardly owning it.

These sort of incidents are damaging and bring NZ racing into disrepute as noted in prior anecdotal reports from Oz.

 

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46 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Sorry Leo but it's a clear breach of the rules as I'm sure you well know. Good blokes like you and I even are not exempt from those.

BREACHES OF THE RULES
802 (1) A person commits a breach of these Rules who:
(a) acts in contravention of or fails to comply with any provision of these Rules or any Regulations made thereunder, or any policy, notice, direction, instruction, guideline, restriction, requirement or condition given, made or imposed under these Rules;

He is also cited as saying the hood was off the horse. He may have been misquoted but if not, it is a big fib or a specsavers job. That's hardly owning it.

These sort of incidents are damaging and bring NZ racing into disrepute as noted in prior anecdotal reports from Oz and elsewhere.

 

oops sorry.

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43 minutes ago, poundforpound said:

Gripper is a humble and loyal man who also does a lot for charity .... no one died here .... I’m just saying we should show him a little kindness and forgiveness regardless of whether he breached the rules 

 

Humble and loyal and telling porkies do not align for me sorry. He has defied the rules and blatantly. Noone may have died but some will probably starve as the departing punters accelerate.

Kindness and forgiveness to one individual at the expense of others only goes so far and his clear defiance of the rules and policy in this regard are inexcusable, especially when it's the second similar incident in less than a year. At the Anzac day meeting last year when the same thing happened he told the JCA:

Mr Harrison confirmed that there was not a call from him and explained that he and Mr Sargent do not follow the Starting Manual. He said that they as the Starter say “Last one coming in” and once in the Race is started. He said that they have been doing it that way for 15 years. He said that it was a costly mistake.

Sorry, not forgiveable this time, especially given the damage it caused and will cause.

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45 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Humble and loyal and telling porkies do not align for me sorry. He has defied the rules and blatantly. Noone may have died but some will probably starve as the departing punters accelerate.

Kindness and forgiveness to one individual at the expense of others only goes so far and his clear defiance of the rules and policy in this regard are inexcusable, especially when it's the second similar incident in less than a year. At the Anzac day meeting last year when the same thing happened he told the JCA:

Mr Harrison confirmed that there was not a call from him and explained that he and Mr Sargent do not follow the Starting Manual. He said that they as the Starter say “Last one coming in” and once in the Race is started. He said that they have been doing it that way for 15 years. He said that it was a costly mistake.

Sorry, not forgiveable this time, especially given the damage it caused and will cause.

Not a great read admiting that they do not follow manual , then it happens again . 

To be absolutely fair he hasn't let horses go when one of gate crew was in front of gates like at Riccarton  few years back,   that guy rolled so good out the way Commando roll  style I was tempted to send a video back to a mate in UK to see if he had trained him.

I dare say the memo has gone out , read the manual, then read the manual eat sleep repeat and repeat , muscle memory , get that muscle memory working. 

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17 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Not a great read admiting that they do not follow manual , then it happens again . 

To be absolutely fair he hasn't let horses go when one of gate crew was in front of gates like at Riccarton  few years back,   that guy rolled so good out the way Commando roll  style I was tempted to send a video back to a mate in UK to see if he had trained him.

I dare say the memo has gone out , read the manual, then read the manual eat sleep repeat and repeat , muscle memory , get that muscle memory working. 

Agree. Last time the JCA concluded:

Reasons For Penalty:

The aggravating features were that four horses were late-scratched from the event with a significant financial loss to the connections and the Club. It concerned the Committee that Mr Sargent and Mr Harrison do not follow 6.18 of the Starters Manual as compliance would have avoided this unfortunate occurrence.

That obviously did not sink in.

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7 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Agree. Last time the JCA concluded:

Reasons For Penalty:

The aggravating features were that four horses were late-scratched from the event with a significant financial loss to the connections and the Club. It concerned the Committee that Mr Sargent and Mr Harrison do not follow 6.18 of the Starters Manual as compliance would have avoided this unfortunate occurrence.

That obviously did not sink in.

The hood was on close  before the jump , or maybe iam losing it . I remember the marker pen initials written on one of the ear slots . Be a really interesting enquiry , that's some training fees down gurgler if that race was sole mid summer target , most would be real pissed off with financial cost  once this earlier enquiry came to light .

Iam sure they followed the manual to letter this time , it's in no doubt Leggy . It was only last time they did their own thing 

 

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